<p>Which would give an applicant a stronger chance: not applying into engineering at a top-tier engineering school (applying instead to the CAS and transferring in later) or applying into engineering as a female applicant?</p>
<p>A friend of mine, an aspiring (chemical) engineering major, has recently decided that on her remaining apps to top-tier schools (Brown, Johns Hopkins, Duke, the like) she'll apply into each school's college of arts and sciences, because she thinks she'd have a better chance at getting in if she didn't apply engineering. She pitched the idea to her parents but they disagree, saying that the fact that she's a girl applying into engineering would increase her chances more. So, who's right? </p>
<p>Her stats, in case they help: 2320 SAT (770/760/790), 780 SATII Chem, 760 Math II. 4.0 GPA, heavy coarseload (5 APs each for senior and junior year, 1 sophomore year - only AP class allowed at the time) 3/375 rank. Relatively good variation of ECs, killer essays. Killer.</p>
<p>If she wants into engineering, I’d apply engineering. It may be difficult to transfer into the engineering school later. Also, deception is generally not a good idea on your application.</p>
<p>Also, being a girl in engineering will probably help WAY more than the slightly higher odds she’d get by applied CAS at most schools (you mentioned Duke - it’s engineering school actually has a higher acceptance rate than its CAS!). It sounds like she’s applying to schools that have stellar CAS programs and decent engineering programs, so this kind of reversal might apply to all of those schools. Not sure, though.</p>
<p>I think her logic in thinking she’d be more likely to be accepted under CAS, despite the fact that at some schools the acceptance rate is actually slightly higher for the engineering school, is that the pool of engineering applicants tends to be stronger than the pool for CAS. She’d be more at the top of the pack for Trinity, using Duke’s stats, since you mentioned it, than Pratt. Granted, these differences aren’t terribly significant, but a little bit can do a lot with college apps. But I’m also not sure of how big of a difference being a girl engineer makes these days.</p>
<p>Your friend is really misguided. At highly selective schools that admit engineering majors separately, the engineering schools tend to be EASIER to get into. especially for females.</p>
<p>There continues to be a nod in the direction of a woman interested in engineering. This student has stellar GPA and standardized scores… just the type of candidate that schools of engineering are looking for. In a school with a good number of women, the ratio is close to 30% women although it ranges from 10 to 30%. When we visited a variety of engineering departments, every school featured this percentage in their marketing. Women continue to have advantage in engineering admissions and later in the job market.</p>
<p>Student should apply to engineering schools if that’s what she’s interested in. Engine programs often are more rigid in their course sequence so switching once you are in can be difficult. Plus, she’s got great stats and trying to game the admissions folks sounds like a bad idea.</p>
<p>This girl should apply using the engineering major because she will need to start getting classes right away to stay on track. She is not a marginal admit with those stats and she can hold her own with the boys. I don’t know many kids with better stats and so I would be surprised if she got locked out of all those schools. Some maybe but not all. She does not even need to use the gender card.</p>
<p>If a female wants to be an engineer – she should definately apply engineering schools.</p>
<p>First and most important – the candidate needs to be qualified. Top schools won’t accept unqualified candidates. Period. However, your friend clearly appears to be qualified academically.</p>
<p>Now, top schools receive far more qualified candidates than they can possibly accept, so there’s almost no such thing as a guaranteed admit. However, females are underrepresented in the sciences and math, so a female with demonstrated interest has a much better chance.</p>
<p>For example – Cornell provides excellent statistics. consider the following:</p>
<p>These data show that the acceptance rate for females is about twice that for males at Cornell. In addition – last year, it is believed that the categories of students who received ‘likely letters’ (i.e., early notification of admittance) was limited to URMs, athletes and female engineers.</p>
<p>In other words, qualified female engineers are heavil recruited.</p>
<p>In addition, as others have mentioned, it’s best to start in engineering to stay in track. It’s probably easier to transfer out than to transfer in.</p>
<p>Those Cornell stats are very interesting: more than 3 times as many male as female applicants to Cornell engineering, yet only 1.5 times as many males accepted, so yes, a better than 2-to-1 advantage for female applicants in admit rate (35.5% F, 17.2% M). Also notice that Cornell Engineering’s yield on admitted females is lower than its yield on admitted males, which could indicate those admitted females are more sought-after, and are getting more attractive offers elsewhere.</p>
<p>For the same year (2010), Cornell’s admit rate for females to Arts & Sciences was 15.4%, and for males 16.2%. </p>
<p>On the other hand, you’ve got to have good math to be admitted to Cornell Engineering. Middle 50% SAT M score for the Cornell Engineering Class of 2015 is 740-800; middle 50% CR score is lower, 670-750. I couldn’t find comparable figures for CAS, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the CAS middle 50% SAT M score is a bit lower and the middle 50% SAT CR score is a bit higher than for engineering.</p>
<p>Your friend is competitive regardless of gender. Follow the advice of so many others here – APPLY ENGINEERING! Being female will only help her to get in, not hurt her. Wherever she got this crazy idea, I have no idea. Her parents are correct (like parents are so often…). Applying CAS and then trying to weasel her way into engineering will not serve her. In fact, she may need to reapply for the engineering college where she gets accepted. At my kid’s engineering program, you cannot change your major from one department to another easily. You could waste a couple of years trying to get in. Additionally, if she wants to study chemical engineering she should apply to really good schools that are known for that major. Brown, Duke, etc. don’t even make the list. Try Princeton, MIT, UC Santa Barbara, University of Minnesota Twin Cities, UT, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with several other posters … with her stats she would be a strong engineering candidate regardless of whether she is female or male. As a female engineer professional, I can tell you that the road is not always easy, and depending on the company or industry, some are still not quite used to have females in their engineering ranks, but for those that do, the opportunities are equally there for strong males and females, and in some cases stronger. If engineering is really what you love, go for it, and you will be rewarded with a very respectable degree and job. If you choose to supplement that with ah Masters in engineering or an MBA, you will be even more rewarded. CAS is not the place to start … start in engineering and you can easily transfer into CAS, but it is much more difficult to transition into engineering from CAS. If you can survive calculus and physics, you can survive anything. Go for engineering if that is what you like and what you can back up with academics.</p>