How Much Personal Financial Info Is Necessary To Disclose For Merit (Not Need) Aid

Parents Forum
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<p>I posted this in the Financial Aid section, but I know not all of you wise, experienced parents are looking at that forum these days. So apologies in advance for posting it twice, but I REALLY need opinions/suggestions on this one. DH and I disagree (go figure..... )</p>

<p>Help, All You Seasoned Financial Aid Gurus (a little long, but please help!)</p>

<p>I feel I should know the answer to this, but I must admit, I don't. Please, I need the guidance of the folks who are savvy about this fin. aid game.</p>

<p>When our first s. went to college, my H. reluctantly filled out the CSS profile for one school. When it indicated we wouldn't qualify for much of anything on the need-based side, he refused to fill out/send in the FAFSA. Does this by any chance affect money offered for merit aid? My H insists that if they know our financial info, they'll offer nothing. I worry that it might be necessary for us to fill out the forms in order for them to consider merit money. I know that some schools offer merit money without the student applying, but would they have to have any financial aid info on file from us in order to be considered for merit money? My s. was a NMF so he did get that $$, but it was need-based at his school and he didnt get much. Ok-- please help settle a few bets:</p>

<p>1) My older s applied ED, which I thought is why we got no merit $ offered other than the NMF $. However, he says that he knows several kids at his school who had significantly lower stats, who also applied ED who were offered significant Merit money. As far as I know, these other students were not URMs or from places like North Dakota, and besides, they were ED applicants, so they were a captive audience. So, if they had all of our financial aid info, would it have helped or hurt us on the merit aid side??</p>

<p>2) We have s #2 coming down the pike, but unfortunately since our boys are 4 yrs apart, the first will be graduating from college just as the 2nd is entering, so we don't get to take that college tuition deduction when calculating our financial status!! Hrmmmph. We'll have been paying through the nose for 4 yrs, and will probably have to continue for another 4 yrs with s# 2. We'd like to be a little smarter with his application process. Help! If we pay anything for older s's grad school, how much will that affect our financial aid status?</p>

<p>3) Younger s. will not apply anywhere ED. Not sure yet which schools he'll apply to, but hopefully to schools that do have a good rep. for offering merit aid (Vandy, Emory, etc). He wants to stay in warm weather, and probably wants a mid-sized, probably tier 1 school (not sure yet, and I know, I'll push him to keep an open mind). As we are in metro Atlanta, I do know know if my s's school will nominate him as an Emory Scholar. Its quite competitive in his HS, since they can only nominate 4. So... will we have to fill out the CSS(for those schools that want the CSS) and/or FAFSA to be considered for merit aid at all the schools to which he applies? Does this vary school-to-school? My H does not want to do so if he can avoid it. He's private about that stuff. I say that they already have so many demographics based on the HS attended, zip code of our residence, etc, they probably know our general financial situation anyway (except for if we have $$ in savings or are in hock up to our eyeballs). So, what do we do??? Fill them out or not? My h. wasnts to give out as little info as possible. I want s #2 to be considered for as much merit aid as possible. Help!</p>

<p>4) Older s got several outside scholarships, but they were only 1 yr, not renewable scholarships. He's still trying (there are a few you can apply for in college) but we don't know the status. Younger s. will not qualify for some of the ones older s won (2 were related to older s's being an Eagle Scout). We'll look into as many outside scholarships as we can, but I don't know how many he'll be competitive for.</p>

<p>5) Lastly, is it too late to move things out of our s's name (he's a rising junior), or is that only necessary if you are applying for need-based aid or loans?</p>

<p>6) Do you have any other suggestions?? Thanks in advance!! I look forward to all of your sage advice.</p>

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<p>I think your H was mistaken -- for merit aid, the college might be more likely to offer aid knowing that the student will not qualify for need-based aid. Why offer precious funds from the merit pool for a student who qualifies for funds over in the need pool? Scholarship funds may come from donor sources that are reserved for certain types of students, whereas need-based funds can be distributed more freely. Also, students with need bring in outside state and federal funds, as well as private scholarship funds (such as Gates Millenium money) to the university -- a merit scholarship might inadvertantly reduce the student's eligibility for such funds.</p>

<p>Merit money is often used as a way to entice a student and increase chances of enrollment. A small-to-moderate merit award to a student who qualifies for more signficiant need-based aid won't serve that purpose -- you can't entice a student with an offer of $10K if that same student is certain to get at least $20K in need based grant money wherever he applies. So one more reason for having good financials.</p>

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<p>Will merit aid be offered (potentially), even without filling out a financial aid form requesting FA? (Color me clueless; my kid is still a Sophomore)....that was what I thought happened....</p>

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<p>This is all baffling to me too, Allmusic. </p>

<p>Calmom-
Thanks for the guidance, but I asm still confused :o . If we checked the "no" box whre it asked if we were applying for financial aid, would that also kick us out of merit aid consideration?</p>

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<p>I did not read your full post (sorry) but I can tell you from first-hand experience that schools will offer you merit aid even if you have submitted a FAFSA/CSS that shows you have a very high EFC (way above COA). S got merit $$ from two schools despite our EFC.</p>

<p>I think some schools (but not all) do require you to fill out FAFSA/CSS for consideration for merit, so it's possible you'd miss opportunities by refusing. I think your H is mistaken to refuse, unless his desire for privacy trumps his desire for moolah ;).</p>

<p>I think you need to check each schools Financial Aid/Scholarship website.</p>

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<p>calmom-
You are knowledgable in this arena. Would you be willing to address my OP item by item? I don't want to do it wrong the second time around. What's the best strategy to be considered for merit $?</p>

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<p>jym:</p>

<p>1) one college finaid officer said that EVERY family must complete Fafsa before they award merit money bcos they want to ensure that the family is not eligible for any federal funds BEFORE they give away their own money. Yes, the data is on Profile, but the grunts in finaid need the federal calc to check off the box. He was clear on that point. Thus, the moral of the story is to give them every thing they ask for, and if they they say zero, you know you gave it the best shot.</p>

<p>5) not to late to move money, but you be the judge of the ethics/morality of it all. Obviously, any money a kid owns will be assessed at much higher rate (35%?) than if in a parent's name (~6%) for efc purposes.</p>

<p>re</p>

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<p>YOu should check school websites. Most will tell you if they automatically consider all students for merit schoalrships or not. My S was offered a substantial merit award from UMich without supplying any financial info. Others will tell you they require it.</p>

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<p>I will go back and check at s #1s school, but I am not sure I want to know!</p>

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<p>Now would be the time to move S's $$ out of his name.Ethical arguements are for others,not me!!</p>

<p>S is heading out to big state U in the Fall with mucho merit $$ and FAFSA was not required.Was also awarded $$ at U Mich which did not req FAFSA ,nor did U of Miami. But sdome schools would have so its best to check each website.D's undergrad did require a FAFSA filing each year they awarded her merit aid (no need based) but they were pretty lacadasical about when it was filed so I dont even think they used it as a "checkoff to make sure shes not need based eligible",I think they just had to comply with an internal regulation that it be on file.</p>

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<p>The FAFSA is the starting point for most schools and I think it's because schools use it to see if they can capture any federal money on behalf of their students. If you decide you can live without any aid, then not participating in those forms makes sense, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that schools won't want personal financial information. Everyone else is providing it. The forms are one more thing to deal with, but worth it if you receive aid. If nothing comes of it your son's first year, you probably wouldn't file them in later years.</p>

<p>One thing to remember about moving money out of a child's name (I'm NOT an attorney or tax person or anything of the sort!) - if someone (like a grandparent) took a gift deduction and gave money to your child, I don't think you can just move it into your name only. If you moved money into a child's name to take advantage of a lower tax rate, I would check whether you can then take the money back. Maybe you can spend the money down - use the child's account to pay for lessons, camps, braces, musical instruments, etc. I think you should check with a reputable tax person before you take action. </p>

<p>Other posters are right - merit money is often targeted to students who can pay a good chunk of their tuition. It's like this: if a private college had $40,000 to give away, they could fund one full need student for a year OR give 4 upper/middle class students $10,000 each for a year. The colleges end up collecting $120,000 per year from those 4 students who don't have demonstrated need. Colleges serve institutional goals with their aid money and you 'just' need to research which schools would find your child a desirable candidate. (I'm not talking about need blind schools that say they'll meet full demonstrated need, just merit money).</p>

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<p>we got merit aid after not even checking off the financial aid box...we never filled out anything financial because i was sure we wouldn't get any federal money...in other words, we never asked for a penny & were offered a lot!</p>

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<p>We did not check off the boxes indicating that our D would be seeking financial aid, and did not fill out or submit the FAFSA or any other financial aid form, but Tulane offered my D merit aid.</p>

<p>It's not too late to move the money and if it is from an UGMA, recent changes in the law permits the money to go into a 529 so that it will not be considered the child's for FAFSA purposes. I would certainly not have any compunction about doing any financial planning or movement which is legal.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If nothing comes of it your son's first year, you probably wouldn't file them in later years.

[/quote]
Also, we found that even if something <em>does</em> come of it - in the form of merit $$, that is - (in the case of Tulane - check your own school once matriculated) that for renewal of merit award, there was no need to file FAFSA/CSS, even if we might have submitted at initial application time.</p>

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<p>My daughter received a merit based scholarship and we did not fill out the FASFA form because we knew that we were not eligible for need based aid. Our guidance counselor advised us not to file the FASFA form if we were not eligible for need based aid as in her opinion students who do not need aid have an edge. I have friends whose kids received merit based scholarships and they did not fill out the FASFA forms. Some schools such as Boston University have merit based scholarships which are tied to the FASFA form, in other words you need to fill out the FASFA form to receive the scholarship. As far as I know at many schools merit based aid is not tied to the FASFA form but in some schools such as Boston University it is needed for one of their scholarships. Whether to file the FASFA form has been a major question in my mind. When my son is ready for college I will probably call the individual colleges he will apply to and ask them if filing the FASFA is tied to their merit based scholarships. I certainly do not have all the answers about this question, however I believe that my daughter received her scholarship as a way of her school recruiting her. She applied regular decision.</p>

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<p>1) It depends on the school. Some will not consider you for merit aid without FAFSA (they don't want to "waste" merit money on a kid who might qualify for Federal funds), others don't care. You need to find out from every school that offers merit scholarships what, if any, forms they want.</p>

<p>2) Getting merit money has more to do with your child's rank in the "pack" than your financial picture. If he is applying to "tier one" schools he needs to have the absolute TOP stats for those schools, and very strong extra-curriculars. Your son #1's friends who had lower stats but got merit aid probably applied to schools for which they were in the top 15%-20% of their applicants' stats - and I suspect you have to be higher than this for the top tier ones. (Or were they athletes. Or they confused need based aid with merit money - most people seriously have no clue.)</p>

<p>3) You probably don't need to move his money. If you have a decent income you probably aren't eligible for anything other than loans anyway, regardless of assets in his name. (Also taking into account you filled it out once and didn't qualify for anything.) Go to the financial aid calculator to be sure.</p>

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<p>It depends on the school. DS's college REQUIRES all freshmen applicants for any kind of finaid to complete both the Profile and the FAFSA. They do not require this for renewal of merit aid. But as a freshman my son completed the Profile, Fafsa AND we had to send copies of two years of tax returns. That is the school's policy...so we did it. He got a terrific merit aid award. We did not qualify for any need based aid.</p>

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<p>thanks everyone-
Weenie-
I probablty wasn't clear- my s. said other kids at the college he attends got merit $$ with much lower stats (not friends attending other colleges). My s was top 10%, 1570 SATs, NMF, 800 SATII's (the SATII he took in 10th grade was around 730, but all the others in 11th gr were 800s), Eagle Scout, etc etc. </p>

<p>We had given the school our basic $$ info on trhe CSS, so its not like they didnt have any info on our financila status. They are the ones who told us we didnt wualify for swuqt. we did the FA calculator on the Dartmouth site, and the EFC it came up with was higher than the full tuition at the school s attends!! So much for scrimping and saving all these years!</p>

<p>For those of you who got merit w/out qualifying for need, did any of your kids apply ED? I see that soccermom's d. applied RD. Nicole, mhc48, thumper1, and others, how about yours? I guess there's no use cryingover spilled milk with s # 1. I am just going to me more assertive with DH next go round. We are filling out those !@#$$%%&* forms!</p>

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<p>Weenie-
I should have clarified, older s's SAT scores were on the old test. He also had lots and lots of community service. But i am guessing htat because s got NM merit $$, the school can say he got merit aid (though it is only enough to cover books each year). I guess its better than nothing..</p>

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<p>jym626, I really don't know the answers to all your questions, as I am familiar with the process for seeking need-based aid, not merit money. All merit money my kids were offered were simply nice surprises along the way, but except for the in-state public, would never have been sufficient to allow my kids to attend. </p>

<p>I do know that a FAFSA is more important to a college than a profile in terms of financial aid eligibility. It is the FAFSA that determines eligibility for federal aid dollars and benefits. Also - the FAFSA may be far more reliable, because it is a government sponsored form. If there is a conflict with numbers on the FAFSA & CSS Profile -- for example, if you say you earned $105,000 on one and $95,000 on the other ... they will go with the FAFSA numbers, which are the ones that are subject to verification via the federal government. </p>

<p>So if you want aid: do the FAFSA. I have no clue as to what to check on the college application form - we always wanted need based aid, so of course we checked the box. </p>

<p>I guess the real answer is that if you want merit aid you need to research the particular policies of the college in advance, and make sure that you do everything that college wants and that it is done on time.</p>