<p>I am also so very pleased that coe is so wise and has joined us. I just didn’t realize that because the Government says I can pay, certainly it must be so. Because the Government deems my financial status beyond qualifying for aid, they certainly understand my current, and future financial responsibilities. I should feel ashamed that I do not see myself writing out checks for private tuition for three students overlapping heavily, while we navigate a changing and unpredictable job market, a real estate market that means potential net loss if a move is necessary, medical bills that are expected for a second surgery with a Dr. who no longer accepts insurance, anticipate car repairs that will be needed on older cars, or need to be replaced. Shame, shame on me for looking ahead to foresee what my family can reasonably afford and continue to meet our responsibilities and save for upcoming expenses. How unreasonable that I would think perhaps I might know something the Government does not. Silly me. I’ll get out my checkbook. </p>
<p>And coe tells us giving money for tuition isn’t a gift?<br>
Does that mean it is a legal obligation?
I wasn’t aware of a law that requires it, please enlighten me, coe on the state or federal law that requires it.
If I’m not required to donate, then how is what I give NOT a gift?</p>
<p>And how exactly is a person FORCED to attend a state school? Someone hold her at gunpoint? A judge sentence her to state school?
She may have been unable to afford Harvard since her parents didn’t pay, but what does that have to do with defining a gift? She may have eaten a bagel a day and walked 2 miles in the snow to get to school, but that has no relevance on what is a gift. Money donated(that is not required) without expectation of being reimbursed is a gift.</p>
<p>A high school kid has a really difficult time putting things in perspective. Gee, if mom and dad make $200k a year, surely they could spend 25% on my school. Or if mom and dad have been saving and scrimping like crazy and have a million in the bank, surely they should spend 25% of their savings on my education. It doesn’t matter that they may need to live 30 years on that million. Some parents of 20-somethings are at retirement age; they aren’t trying to bail out early. But it’s hard to get a kid (or at least some kids) to understand.</p>
<p>And most Americans do not make that much money nor do they have that much saved. Costs are out of control.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s question – engineering programs have a lot of standardized curriculum required by ABET (accreditation for engineering programs), so at least in the first two years, a lot of the courses you’d take at Madison would be similar to those taken at a private school. Because you are considering publics with highly-ranked engineering programs, you are likely to get a great education alongside some top-notch classmates. </p>
<p>Know that engineering programs also tend to weed out a lot of students in the first year; some folks decide it’s not their thing, some get hung up on the weeder classes. If you decide engineering is not your thing, you may want to make sure the school you choose has other programs that interest you, assuming that you don’t want to transfer. </p>
<p>If you are a young woman considering engineering, look at the percentage of women in the various schools’ programs and what kinds of supports are in place for them. It can be lonely if the ratio is 1:5.</p>
<p>With a family income around $200k, you are not likely to get FA unless there is another sibling in college; OTOH, that does NOT mean a $55k sticker price is pain-free for your family, by any means.</p>
<p>Is the big sticker price going to cause problems if you struggle academically? Some kids feel stressed feeling that they have to make the big grades in order to justify the cost of the school (or the parents expect a good return on their “investment” vs. the flagship). If the family politics in your house lead you to envision those kinds of tensions, think about how much financial leverage you want your parents to have. (No, this does not happen in every family. But in some, it does. I know folks who took the merit rides so that they could be independent of those parental strings. I know of others who went private and resent the financial leverage the parents hold.)</p>
<p>Twins…I’ll respond to your subject heading. NO ONE here cantell you how much YOUR family should be willing to pay. That is a family decision. If your family is willing to pay more, that is their decision. If they are not willing to pay more, that is their decision.</p>
<p>I’ll give you my opinion…you seem mighty happy with Wisconsin and Minnesota as school choices. Your threads almost sound like you are looking for reasons to spend more money. If you are happy with the programs at WI and MN, then go for it. If your family is WILLING to pay more, apply to some other schools as well, and make up your mind in April.</p>
<p>If you really are happy with MN and WI, would your parents be willing to help you with grad school since your undergrad expenses will be less? Worth asking.</p>
<p>At the risk of igniting the thread, I did find this from Coe’s other post (of 2). Just in case noone got the entitlement syndrome in the post above.:
<p>"If they don’t qualify for aid, you clearly don’t need it. " -<br>
Sometime Yes, Sometime No. And Sometimes (especially in this economy) Maybe So.</p>
<p>If I take 13 AP classes in high school and get all 4’s/5’s, should that affect my decision? If I really need to, I could skip a whole year. But i do not think that is possible with engineering?</p>
<p>Whatever ANYONE’s opinion is, about how anyone should spend his/her money, it comes down to the owner of the money. The good old golden rule…he who has the gold makes the rule. It is a family/parenting decision as to how much money is going to go towards paying for college as well as for other things in life. For most of us there isn’t enough money to spread over all of the priorities. In our case, with our big extended family, having a nice big house as a sanctuary for everyone was a priority. Sometimes I regret that we made that decision, but we are stuck with it at this point in time.</p>
<p>Enough funds for flexibility and choice for medical and emergency issues are also important to us. We’ve gone through some of this first hand, and feel strongly that this is a priority for our family.</p>
<p>A good fit in schools and a good education is important to us, not starting at college… Our kids have gone to private schools, two still in k-12 privates that I think are as important, really more so than college. Our kids have been well prepared for college, and their schools have served as an extension of family and community, both of which we are lacking being fairly recent transplants to this area. </p>
<p>We have other things that are important to us as well. Retirement is a big issue. I don’t want to be dependent on my children or anyone, for that matter, in my old age. Enough money for choices is important. We have two grandmoms living with us that are a daily example of what happens when no planning and insufficient funds occur during old age. It’s not easy for anyone that this situation exists, and I don’t intend to to repeat it with my generation. My kids feel the same way. </p>
<p>Though our kids have not always been the easiest ones to raise, they have been supportive of our priorities. They don’t want us risking our pensions, health, current standard of living so that they can go to whatever college they please or have more money for their springboard into adulthood. This has not been an issue in our house. I am grateful. I do wish we could have a bottomless bank account for college costs, but that is not the case. I don’t expect other families to have the same priorities that we have,</p>
<p>Twins–In engineering, AP credit is probably more restricted than many if not most other majors. Your AP credits (especially at state schools where they are sometimes more generous with AP) will usually apply toward core classes like history, English, and perhaps econ or psych. You probably would not use physics and probably only the first level of calc.</p>
<p>Oh, and I (sort of) joke with my kids that I’ll expect a really nice addition on the back of their houses. Spending big bucks on college can do more than delay retirement.</p>
<p>"If I take 13 AP classes in high school and get all 4’s/5’s, should that affect my decision? If I really need to, I could skip a whole year. But i do not think that is possible with engineering? "</p>
<p>Many engineers do repeat calc classes (even when credit is offered) since it is so critical to the other courses. But some start at higher level classes. I am told that if your AP Physics class was not calc-based, you will need to take Physics again in college. </p>
<p>Most colleges post a chart criteria for accepting AP and IB credit. It varies a lot, and some of the the top schools accept no AP/IB. Most common is accepting 4/5 for AP and 5/6/7 for IB HL courses. But you need to check each school for their rules.</p>
<p>As I read thru this post and as I reflect back on last year’s admits and merits, it really comes down to EVEN YOUR PARENTS can’t answer this question until after admits/merit comes in the spring.</p>
<p>As others have stated, if you want to apply to the private schools, narrow the list to schools with merit. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results.</p>
<p>I am a big believer in applying to many schools. The merit/FA game can be unpredictable. </p>
<p>I agree that you would not be able to “skip” a year with APs due to the engineering track. However, it could give you enough credits to add a minor. </p>
<p>ASIDE – I know many have little sympathy for Coe’s entitlement issues, but I do feel for Coe. Gone are the days when a kid could finance their own education. The entire FA system assumes parents will pay, but many parents aren’t up-to speed on the process and are hit with these expectations. It is a rude awakening to learn that parents won’t pay and that the school will not point you in the direction of a lender. I’m not advocating kids take on big loans, just stating that even if one wanted to, they are not available. I don’t live in a wealthy area. 20 years ago, a kid in my neighborhood could work summers and break and pay to live & attend a state school. That is no longer the case in my area. I wish the high schools handed out to all 9th grade parents a “Prepare for College” sheet that included college finances/FAFSA 101 instead of just the list of courses the kid should take to get into college.</p>
<p>^^^Long Prime, I was one of those kids a generation ago who put myself through a flagship through work, Pell and $7500 in total loans (lived on campus). Heck, my DH put himself through an Ivy – got a full-tuition scholarship and worked/borrowed the rest ($7000 for UG).</p>
<p>Can’t imagine doing that these days. Minimum wage for 40 hrs/week during the summer and 20 hrs/week through the school year would pay less than half of COA at our flagship, and leave an amount remaining that is more than the maximum Stafford loan available.</p>
<p>I sincerely would like to thank all of you, especially Erin’s Dad, for your perspective into my psychological condition. I clearly have a problem seeing through my parents’ perspective.</p>
<p>I talked to my friend’s mother today, and she told me this - she would NEVER wish the fate she had on her daughter. She would sell her life away if she wanted her daughter to attend the school she wanted. Now, understandably not everyone is like this, and I don’t think anyone should. And I’ll admit, what I said in my post was slightly inflamed. But parents, not allowing your son or daughter to attend the school they want to because you want to buy that beach house you always dreamed of or because you want to retire 7 years early is not fair to them. And this is my situation.</p>
<p>Yes, of course EFC calculations should account for other factors. I’m not talking about borderline cases here, and I’m sorry for making it seem like that.</p>
<p>It’s surprising, because before this whole college application process I thought my parents cared about my success above their own desires. I’m now reevaluating that.</p>
Where do you draw the line? At what point is a parent obligated to fulfill their child’s wishes? If I want a Mercedes and my parents have the cash to pay for it, is it unfair for them to refuse?</p>
<p>coe is still confused on the difference between gift and obligation. What lengths his friends mother would do is entirely up to her, and I don’t think anyone here begrudges her for that. Coe thinks if one is willing to make extreme choices for child’s education, then all must. But not all are as able and willing to give as much as others.
For my child, now theoretically an adult at 18 to be able to tell me that I cannot buy that beach house because I must pay for his choice of education is wrong. To use your phrase, it isn’t fair that they can force me to do their choice- I’m an adult, and it’s my money.
That’s what adulthood is about, making choices. And just as I cannot force my choice on an 18 or 19 yr old, they cannot force their choice on me. Young adults often forget that choices and adulthood work for both parties. Children nearing 18 or just after, often say “you can’t tell me what to do, I’m an adult” (I did., my S did) You know what? I’m about 50, and I’m an adult too.</p>
<p>And not allowing a school choice? I have heard no parent here say they forbade their offspring from attending any school.
Some choices are easier than others, some are better than others, but that is what comes with adult life.</p>
<p>We have a neighbor who said he would mortgage his house for one of his kids to go to Princeton. For him, it was a very safe statement to make.</p>
<p>The point that kids need to know is that parents’ money is parents’ money. They get to spend it or not spend it any way they choose. Once a child inherits it, it theirs, but there is no guarantee of inheritance either.</p>
<p>There’s clearly a difference between education and a Mercedes. Education is something that you arguably cannot do without in this world. Getting a good education at a good institution gets you a good job, good money, and perhaps the ability to buy a Mercedes for yourself in the future. When parents pay for a child’s education, they are making an investment in something that will give back–they aren’t throwing their money into a hole and burying it.</p>
<p>And, I hate to break it to you, but there is definitely truth to the importance of a name. You get what you pay for. Of course you can be successful at a state school. But if faced with two equal applicants–one from a renowned private educational institution (like MIT) and another from a little-known state school, which will they be more like to hire?</p>
<p>If your child has the ability to succeed at an amazing school, how is it fair to deny them that chance?</p>