How Much Should You Tell Colleges?

Mary_Anna · November 19, 2005, 11:26am

I have a question.

When my students auditon for colleges they are almost always asked to write down or state what other colleges they are auditioning for. I advise my students to just answer politely with something obtuse and not give or write down specific names because I think it's none of their business.

In my seminar I asked the director of recruitment from SMU/Meadows why most all of these colleges seem to want to know this information. He responded that they want to know so that they can address any differences between the schools and their training methods, etc. But, reading between the lines, I think he means that it gives them a chance to spin their program and say we are better than so and so school.

I am not sure that serves the student necessarily. Especially when, as in the case this week, I had students at NYU who were ED and they were asked, as they always are, to list the other schools they are applying to. That seems irrelevant since the very fact that they are ED shows they are committed to NYU as a first choice.

I just think it gives the college reps fuel for argument and the students need to be making these comparisons on their own outside of the audition.

Am I missing something important here?

Thanks for input,
xxx,Mary Anna

chrism · November 19, 2005, 11:30am

There was a full discussion of this last year here -

Chrism

soozievt · November 19, 2005, 12:04pm

Mary Anna,

I totally agree with you that this question should NOT be asked by colleges as I don't think it is their business where else the student is applying. However, I know the reason some ask this and it is not really what that person told you from SMU. The reason is that they want to ascertain where THEY are on this particular student's pecking list. So, if the student applied to a bunch of schools more selective or higher up the "reputation" ladder so to speak than they are, they might question if the student will really opt to attend if given an offer. Another reason they ask is they want to see what other schools you are interested in and if there is a pattern to it or a type of school that the student is attracted to and whether that type of school is comparable to theirs. So, for example, if a student is applying to all BFA programs, and then their school is a BA, then they might wander if the student is truly interested in a BA. If all the schools are heavy on liberal arts and this one is a conservatory, then it stands out as different. If all are very large universities and theirs is a school of 1000 students, they may wander if the student really wants their type of school. But the bigger thing they sometimes look at is if the student is applying to lots of schools that are "above" their school in terms of "reach" or "selectivity" or "reputation", then they question if the student will really come.

So, when schools ask this question on the audition form or application (again, I really am against that some schools do this!), a student can opt to not put down all their schools but put down ones either in the same range or "below" in terms of selectivity and/or put down others of the same type. They don't have to reveal the entire list.

This did not come up on applications that my older daughter did (selective colleges). However, it DID come up on some apps or audition forms at my younger D's BFA programs and she put down some of her schools, not all, along the lines of what I just said above.

But I will share with you a vignette that I found odd and is along the lines of why I think this is not a question they should be asking. When my D had her audition at one of her BFA schools (I won't name it but it is one she was ACCEPTED to), after she sang and did the monologues and they worked with her doing scales and all that stuff....not including the dance audition which she also did but different people judged that....they asked her a few "interview" type questions, and one of these questions was based on looking at her audition form where she had to put where else she had applied and the faculty person asked her: "How come YOU did not apply to NYU???" as if wondering perhaps why she would not have a school in that "tier" on her list, not sure. She had put down five of her 8 schools but left off the "top ones" so to speak and kept the ones in the ballpark of this particular school/program. So, she could not say, "well, actually I DID apply to NYU" could she? Not at this point. Luckily, she is someone who is sure of herself and does not get ruffled or nervous. She explained the drawbacks of NYU which compared/contrasted to why she liked this particular program (which I might remind kids here that it is important to really KNOW your programs and be able to talk about them using SPECIFICS). While explaining why NOT NYU, it drew her into why she wanted X college (the one hse was present at) and the ways the two schools differed. She was accepted with substantial scholarship to thisi particular program and also Honors at this college so this little "interview" did not hurt her in any way but it was an odd question, in my opinion, for a very short interview segment following the audition, of all the things they might have asked. And, she did up at NYU, lol.

So, there you have it.

Susan

Mary_Anna · November 19, 2005, 12:51pm

Susan, what you have said and what SMU recruitment said are much the same thing. I probably just didn't explain it well.

I still will continue to advise my students to keep their college list to themselves at the audition until someone can give me a good reason to the contrary. I don't see how it helps the students one bit.

When I do mock interviews we always rehearse that question. Of course, when students are in the audition room and feeling the pressure and perhaps even some nervousness, students may feel the need to reveal more than they really want to on the subject.

Thanks for the feed back.
xxx,Mary Anna

soozievt · November 19, 2005, 1:38pm

I think the SMU person was saying it was an opportunity for the college to sell the student on their school and how it compared to the others. But what I was saying is that the schools want to see where they may stand on the student's list, in terms of selectivity/reputation and the likelihood of the student choosing their school, as well as to ascertain if the student is truly interested in their type of school if their school does not fit a pattern of the other schools on the student's list. I did not see these reasons as a chance for them to sell the student on their school. This did not happen within my child's audition. They took the information about which other schools she applied to (from the application and/or audition form) and used it for their own judgement purposes as to whether they feel the kid is really interested in their school or not. They did not talk to her about their school in the audition room. They want to know where their school stands on the kid's list in terms of how serious the student is in terms of INTEREST in their program and if the student would attend, if admitted.

Susan

Mary_Anna · November 19, 2005, 2:13pm

The SMU rep said the same thing you are saying. it is MY INTERPRETATION of what he said that leads me to believe it gives the school a chance to sell or spin .

I still think it is none of their business, whatever the reason is for asking the student to reveal it.

doctorjohn · November 20, 2005, 10:22am

This has been a very interesting discussion. I have to admit that I do ask, What other colleges are you looking at? Youve made me wonder why I ask it, and whether I should.

Early in the process, when students come to campus to visit, the question is valid, I think. It helps me understand where students are in the process. Sometimes they have no idea where to begin, and then I can refer them to cc.com, Shaunas FAQ site and the Big List. Sometimes, theyve done some research, but chosen only schools theyve heard of, CCM, UM, CMU, NYU; or, even worse, were the only school theyre looking at. Then I will talk to them about admission rates and encourage them to look at schools which can function as safeties, relatively speaking, and schools which are not quite so visible but have terrific programs. Sometimes I hear, I want to double-major in Communications and that leads to a discussion of what kind of college experience they really want, and often I can lead them to good BA programs, including our own. So I think theres value to the students to having me ask the question in this setting.

But what about the interview at the audition? Well, the situation isnt entirely different. In addition to determining talent and skills, we need to determine if were the right fit. If a student says that hes looking at CCM, CMU and Boston Conservatory, then Ill need to point out that while we offer conservatory-style training, we are part of a liberal arts college and we require those classes. How willing is he to tackle those? If, on the other hand, she says that shes looking at Kenyon, Wooster, and Northwestern, then Ill need to point out that theres no room in our BFA MT degree for electives, and well discuss the BFA Acting degree and the BA degree as possible alternatives. We may even end up agreeing then and there that we wouldnt be a good match for each other; thats not a bad result. So theres still some value to the student, as well as to us, in asking the question.

On the other hand, there are answers that can harm a students chances of getting an offer from us. Its probably not wise to tell me that youve already been admitted to your dream school, and that your audition for us is just to see what kind of financial offer you can get. You also dont need to tell me which schools have already rejected you. That really is none of my business.

You can, however, say the following: Ive been admitted to Tisch, and honestly Id love to go, but Im not sure that Im really ready to live in New York, and my parents would have to go deeply into debt to pay the tuition; based on what Ive seen, you guys offer great training, my family wouldnt have to go broke to pay for it, and I think I could be really happy at Otterbein. Ive heard that statement, and I respond very positively to it.

So I think Ive talked myself into continuing to ask the question. But I agree with Mary Anna and Susan that it would be very wise of students to rehearse an answer to the question that is honest, tailored to the individual school, and no more revelatory than the student is comfortable with. Because even if you believe that colleges have no business knowing where else youve applied, theyre going to ask.

It's probably worth some time discussing those potential answers on this thread. Susan has already shared what her D. used last year in one instance. Mary Anna, do you feel comfortable sharing some examples? They don't need to be school-specific, obviously.

And I'd be interested in continuing this discussion. If you think the question is an invasion of privacy, then let's talk about different questions I could ask that would get both parties the information they need to make good decisions.

Thanks.

chrism · November 20, 2005, 10:36am

Doctor John,
That's a thoughtful answer to a sticky question. Thanks, as always.

The problem, as I see it, is that when schools (in my experience, based on what I have seen and what my D has shared after auditioning) ask the question, it isn't part of a thoughtful interview and is not meant to gently counsel the student into what might be better choices for him/her, or to engage in any kind of thoughtful discussion at all. In fact, at one school students are simply requested to make a list on the audition form of the other schools to which they are applying. [There is no interview, so no chance to discuss anything on the list.]

I don't see a problem with asking the question if the motivation is at least partly to counsel the student. Perhaps the problem might be solved by starting out with "Do you mind me asking where else you're applying? I have some programs in mind that might be a better fit for you." or "Do you mind me asking where else you're applying? It seems your strengths would fit a program where...and we don't offer that but school x does". ETC.

It's all the spirit in which the question is asked! Thanks for sharing your view of this.

Chrism

chrism · November 20, 2005, 10:42am

I also recall that last year one parent mentioned that their student handled the question in the following way:

"College A: So, which school is your first choice school?
Student: Well, I have to say that I haven't really decided yet. College A is at the top of my list [one of my top two, one of my top three] for [X, Y, Z] reasons. "

I thought that was a good solution.

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 10:57am

Thank you DoctorJohn for your participation in this discussion from the "inside". You brought up just what I was trying to say in my post as to why a school would ask this question (as I disagreed with the notion that someone else said about it being an opportunity to sell the school). I know it is to try to determine which types of schools the student is looking at and if this particular school fits that pattern and how serious the student might be about this particular school.

I have been interviewing candidates for admission for ten years from my region as an alum interviewer for Tufts University. I will admit to you that for several years, I did ask where else they were applying and took an interest in that and it gave me an idea of what they were looking for and I may have chatted with the student about the differences in the schools and even encouraged them with their selections, not pushing Tufts on them. It was more out of interest. Then as I became more familiar with college admissions and my own kids were applying, and I discussed this very issue with others, I decided to no longer ask this question as it really is NOT my business where else they applied because upon hearing the list, it might appear that this school is lower down on their "pecking order" which is not fair for me to really know. If they say "I applied to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Tufts", it is different than when they say "I applied to Tufts, Drew, Goucher, Univ. of VT". It would color my perception of whether this school was a reach, match, or safety for them.

What I DO do, however, which I think truly accomplishes the same thing you are talking about (which I agree is SO important...the issues you brought up as examples!)....is to ask what criteria are important to you in selecting a college? I find out what it is they are looking for and prefer in a college. I also ask them specifically why they want to go to this particular college (and boy, do I learn a lot about kids who have done no research on the school and just say, "I like Boston" and kids who truly are interested in the school). I also ask them to ask me anything they want to know about Tufts and again, it is very telling if they have questions, how specific they are, if they are based on any knowledge of the school, and what they care about. You'd be amazed at kids who said "no, I don't have any questions". Believe me, the narrative report on the student differs greatly on how this part of the interview goes. So, I don't really need to know the NAMES of their other schools to get the kind of information that you are talking about.

To get the names of other schools, in my view, ONLY helps beyond the questions I just mentioned IF you want to find out where this school stands on their list in terms of selectivity (reach, match, safety) so to speak, or in terms of their first or last choice. I don't think colleges need to know that to decide whether to admit a kid. I think kids deserve to have safety schools or schools lower down the "ranking order"(either in terms of selectivity or even in terms of favorites/preferences) and as long as they show genuine interest in those schools, put just as much time into those applications and visits and what not, they should be considered for admission for its own sake and not be rejected because the college thinks they won't attend because they have more selective schools (or even more preferred schools) on their list.

So, I really think that besides that last point, the rest CAN be determined by the sorts of questions I was posing. Find out why the student wants a BFA over a BA. Find out why they want Otterbein. If a kid says they only want conservatory style training with no liberal arts, you can figure that out in such questioning. If they say they want to double major with communications, then you can guide them and so forth. Ask about their goals and why a BFA. Ask what criteria did they use in selecting theater programs. I truly believe you can get all this type of information without knowing the names of their other schools.

I truly do not know why the faculty at X college asked my D why didn't she apply to NYU (when she left it off her list on the audition form as she left off about two schools considered "higher up the ladder" so to speak in terms of reputation). Were they wondering after they heard her entire audition, why she did not try for a school "higher up"? I feel my D did answer the question well because she was able to turn it into a Why THIS College answer and contrasted this school with NYU and why she might not have chosen NYU because of x, y. z reasons that are how it differs from this college in those specific ways (all were true). She obviously knew her schools and was able to articulate specific reasons. Also, when I counsel students on their applications and on the WHY X College essays (and have them include such statements with the app if the college doesn't already ask it), is that they must be VERY SPECIFIC as to why they want the college and their answer should not be the same for every college. If they can't come up with specific reasons, then they are not doing their homework. This is also applicable to interviews and I guide them in this direction as well. This is a weak part for many students, I am finding.

My older child did not have the "where else did you apply" on her applications to selective colleges (including Ivy League or other elite schools). This only seemed to come up on the applications or audition forms for my BFA kid. As I said, I guided her to list several of her schools but only the ones in the same ballpark as the one she was auditioning at, or any "below" it, or at least schools that were similar. So, she left off a few in each case.

Thank you once more for your invaluable perspective and willingness to share it here.
Susan

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 11:01am

Chris, I did not see your post when I posted above but you bring up excellent points. Yes, for most of the schools that asked where else she applied on the audition form, it is not like they had the kind of discussion with her that DoctorJohn has with his prospective students. It was asked with NO discussion whatsoever about it. That makes me then assume it was asked for the reasons I mentioned in earlier posts.

Also your other point about if a school asks if this is their first choice, or something like that, they can explain exactly why they want to go and that it is amongst their top/favorites (always be honest) at this time.

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 11:19am

Yikes, I am posting again but upon rereading your post, DoctorJohn, and your fine examples, here is another thought....

You are right that Otterbein is not like CCM, CMU, or Boston Conservatory because it has significant liberal arts component and is not merely JUST a conservatory. In my D's case, her preferred option was indeed a school that had a conservatory but also some (strong, challenging) liberal arts. Thus, her two faves on her list were NYU/Tisch and UMich as these fit more of her criteria/preferences in a college. She did not apply to CCM. However, she did apply to CMU and BOCO. If Tisch or UMich asked the "where else did you apply" and then saw that she had CMU or BOCO on the list and then drew a conclusion like you are pointing to that perhaps the student might want strictly conservatory and not any liberal arts, it would be false. The issue is when compiling a college list (as you do need more than just a few on the list given how hard it is to get in), you have a variety of schools and there should be a reason why each is on your list and it should meet SOME of your college criteria for selection and be a good fit for various reasons. But each school might fit either different criteria on your list or fit the criteria a bit better than another school does on the list. Thus everyone has favorites on the list that are probably the best matches. But not every school neatly lines up to fit every criteria you have for selecting a college.

For example, my older D liked the open curriculum at Brown and the challenging academics and the fact that it has a varsity ski team (among many other reasons) but another school on her list had a better architecture program but only a club ski team and not as good of a location and not as strong academically but had some other very attractive qualities for her to want to go there, plus she needed some less selective schools on her list. She was able to articulate in detail and with enthusiasm why she wanted each school on her list but each school did not have the same perfect "match" or "fit" in the same way. They differed. They differed in many respects AND in selectivity alone. Let's talk about something as basic as location or size. Conn College could have said, oh, look this girl is applying to bigger schools and closer to a city and also more selective, she must not want us. But actually my D was quite interested in Conn College and it was her safety but she'd have been happy to have attended and it f it several other college selection criteria of hers. Other schools fit other things she wanted. They all had enough things she wanted in a college and fit her for different reasons. Some just fit better than others and thus she had favorites but she had to apply to 8 schools of relative selectivity and relative "fit" to yield some choices come April. So, even my BFA kid had a strong interest in CMU or BOCO, for example, even though NYU and UMich had other things like liberal arts that better matched her criteria in a college. She'd have been happy to have attended CMU or BOCO but as with anyone, she had reasons why her favorites were her favorites. That's why asking which other schools you applied to can make the interviewer draw some conclusions as to how truly interested the student is in the school that may not be that true. My kids were TRULY interested in every school on their list or they would not have had it on their list to begin with. The schools, however, differed in various ways, as schools do.

Susan

theatermom · November 20, 2005, 11:50am

I don't know, call me naive, but I have a slightly different take on how to handle this situation, which my D did have during her audition experiences 2 years ago. I'll share two of them.

I have already written about the first instance, but it was so long ago, I will repeat it. When she auditioned Early Action for Emerson, she was asked on the audition form to write down the other programs to which she was applying and did so without a thought as whether it might be problematical to do so. I had no problems with the question. At the conclusion of her audition, she did speak to her auditor for about 10 minutes. When she came back to the room where the parents were waiting she told me that while she thought the audition had gone well, she was afraid that she might have "blown it." When I asked her why she felt that way she told me that during her interview the final auditor said that as she was applying Early Action he would assume that Emerson was her first choice. Without stopping to think that there was some ulterior motive to the question or some couched answer she SHOULD have given, she answered that she still had several trips to make, auditions to do and lots of questions to ask, but from what she had learned that day Emerson was high on her list. As a result she assumed that Emerson was certainly not going to offer her an Early Action acceptance as she had not demonstrated a committment to them by the answer she had given. I told her not to worry about it because I always feel that honesty is the best policy. Again, call me naive, but I told her to think ahead about how she would feel if she had lied and said that Emerson was her first choice, WAS accepted Early Action and in the end turned them down. Not the way she'd like to feel, I told her. And then much to our mutual surprise, she WAS accepted Early Action to Emerson and the MT BFA program two weeks later. And she could feel fine about the way in which she conducted herself when in the end she had to decline the offer.

In the second instance, she was asked what other schools she was interested in/applying to as part of an interview during an early visit to a program. The interviewer spent quite a long time with her and was able to establish a unique connection with her. She didn't respond to my D's list of schools at the time but later on in the day, and remember this is long before my D returned to audition for this program, she bumped into my D at a lunch site and told my D that she had given it some thought and shared some reasons why she thought that the program at her school would be a good match for my D and why one of the other programs on her list might not be. Several others she thought might also be reasonable matches. Something about what she said and the way in which she said it resonated with my D and with my husband who had accompanied her on this visit. They left feeling like they had really been "heard" and were glad to have been asked to share this information and felt informed and empowered by the response they received.

I do understand the concerns about the question being asked and the time, place and way in which it can be asked. In the context that Doctorjohn describes, we could all be comfortable counseling our children to respond openly and honestly. But we also know that the world is not uniformly populated by people of his integrity. It is hard to know then what is the right way to procede. If I had to do it again, I think I would tell my daughter to go with her gut reaction about whether or not it was "safe" to share this information. For whatever reasons the "ethos" of each of the programs she visited and applied to felt REALLY clear to us and we agreed about all of them. There were definitely places where we felt that honest information was being sought AND shared and other places where we felt more like we were being "sold." In the former situation, I would feel comfortable that the information about which other programs she was considering was solicited for the benefit of both the program AND my daughter and I would be happy to have her share the names. In the latter circumstance, I would be cautious and would understand if she chose to decline to share that information and let the chips fall where they may. In neither situation, however, would I be comfortable with her listing only some of the schools and not others. I believe that you should give all the information or respecfully decline to give any. In either case you are being honest and should have no regrets. I am willing to accept the fact that these actions might not always contribute to an acceptance but so be it.

Just another way to think about this interesting question.

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 12:25pm

I definitely agree with you, Theatermom, to never lie and say a school is your first choice if it is not. Only tell that to a school that is your first choice. To others, you can say that it is one of your top choices or favorites (if true). Also, a student should put equal energy into every application and interview and show genuine interest.

The vignette about the school where there was an early visit is different. This is a more appropriate discussion on a visit than at an audition, in terms of names of other schools you are considering.

Your D's vignette from Emerson, I recall. She answered absolutely the appropriate way. It was honest and reasonable to say she still had other schools to visit to make an informed decision but that she was seriously considering Emerson. This is honest and actually quite a good answer and appropriate one, and one I'd advise as well.

I only disagree on the notion that it is dishonest to not list every school to which you have applied. That is not dishonest but only sharing some of the schools. A student may change their mind, not even have done all the applications yet, and really is not obligated to divulge their entire list of options. Sharing some is still giving them what they asked for. Some people I know leave this question blank and are advised to do so. I had my D fill it in on the audition forms but she listed most, but not every school on her list. I really do not think colleges need to know every school on her list. That is not really being dishonest but just not forthcoming about every single option she is considering. It is common practice in college counseling to advise students how to answer this question either along the lines of what your D told Emerson (again a good answer) or if asked specific schools you are applying to, to provide just the schools on your list in the same range or similar but not "above". I don't think that is a dishonest answer but just shares enough that they need to know. It is not making up anything. It is merely not disclosing all your choices which I don't believe schools truly need to know.
Susan

Mary_Anna · November 20, 2005, 12:34pm

OK, Dr. John. Here is my suggestion

During the audition, why can't you have all this discusion without talking about specific names of OTHER schools?
Keep the focus on the school where the student is auditioning at that moment.

And I am sorry, Susan, but you will never convince me that a college rep is not trying to sell their school on some level. If not, they are not doing their job. I am not saying they are dishonest or coniving. But everyone has an agenda in the college admission process and it would be a naive student who walks into an audition or a college fair without knowing that fact of reality.

Dr . John, I don't mind sharing my suggestions publically. I suggest a general but polite answer like, "I haven't finalized a list yet" or "Many other (fill in the blank) programs" or "Well, my first choice school is right where I'm sitting right now" or "I would rather not say because I am still not sure"

xxxx,Mary Anna

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 1:45pm

Mary Anna, I do not think I was understood but that's OK ;). I know college reps try to promote their school. I was saying that the reason for asking this question was not that reason. I gave the reasons why I know colleges might ask this. I agree that colleges try to sell their school but was not tying that to the reasons for the question on the application or audition form. I believe the reasons are the ones I wrote about earlier.

Susan

believersmom · November 20, 2005, 4:37pm

And now for something completely different...or not.

For a variety of reasons, none of which are related to college applications/auditions, I have been "schooled" in some communication issues and techniques that have served me very well in my adult life. This discussion smacks of one of those techniques and I thought I'd share another perspective.

The funny thing about questions, interviews & [possibly]auditions, is that it is human nature to believe one is compelled to answer what one is asked and the interviewee usually does so automaticly. Humans also tend to see everything through their own filters and often assume they know why the question is asked or believe they understand exactly what it is the person doing the questioning is asking.

What I have been taught and have taught to others [NOT relating to college entrances or auditions but hear me out] is that it is a really good idea to get more information before answering the question:
Student says: [Looking straight into the interviewer's eyes with an open and interested expression on one's face] "That is an interesting question, can you tell me why that is important?" or "Please tell me more about why you ask that."
Then be very quiet and LISTEN to the answer.

Let's say it is Dr. John interviewing and he responds with something like:
"I am interested in what type of MT program you are looking for and why you think Otterbein would be a good fit for you?"

Student: "I am looking for a conservatory program within a liberal arts setting at a school with a student body of less than 10,000. I also want a strong program with a good reputation and a senior showcase because I am commited to working in the industry when I graduate. From all the research I have done leading up to senior year and the application process, Otterbein fits that to a tee. After this morning's audition and the tour I took when we arrived yesterday I am feeling even more confident that this is true about Otterbein, am I correct?"

If the questioner asks again after that, asking for more specifics, I would instruct the student to reply, "an assortment of similar schools with programs that fit that same criteria and the list is not final as I am keeping my options open."

The reason I believe this to be a good technique for handling this is, when it gets right down to it, shouldn't the school selection process be a two way street? Some of the earlier comments indicate that it is ["...so they can 'sell' the student on their program..."].

BTW-this technique works wonders with inter-personal relationships too, it has almost completely eliminated arguing with my H, when we both remember to use it-:) LOL!

Hope this helps someone.

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 4:47pm

That is really good advice.

One thing though....An adcom or director asking "I am interested in what type of MT program you are looking for and why you think Otterbein would be a good fit for you?" is exactly what SHOULD be asked. A student should answer with specifics of their college criteria and specifically how this school fits their preferences for a college and MT program.

But the audition forms and some of these BFA applications actually ask the student to list which other schools you are applying to. No discussion, just list them. I also have students write about why they want to go to a program when they do their applications as this is important to articulate. The issue is more about the NAMES of the schools that they ask you to list on the forms. I also agree that in an interview, a student could say she is looking for other schools that fit the same criteria and that she is still forming the list (or if later in the season, say she is waiting to all her college visits are over to decide). But this is still different than having it as a written question : "Please list all the schools to which you have applied." Again, a student can elsewhere talk about Why X college and hopefully again in an interview or audition setting. Very important. My comments earlier had more to do with the specific written question of listing all schools to which you applied. I don't really like that written question and it is uncommon for the kinds of schools my older D applied to but seems very common on the audition forms or even applications to lots of these BFA programs.

Susan

razorback1 · November 20, 2005, 5:37pm

i agree that this is a real problem. i would be afraid that telling a school that they were not at the top of your list at that moment would allow them to decide they should offer their slots to those most interested in them, thinking they are wasting a slot on you. i tried to fill out one app online and it asked you to rank your choices and if their college was your first choice. i didn't go any further so i don't know if the website will accept the app without that filled in. but, like everyone else, i saw it as a problem.

soozievt · November 20, 2005, 6:17pm

Razorback, that is exactly the problem I have with that question. I think a student can be interested in all the schools on their list and in fact, both my kids were. They should be. They should show genuine interest in all their schools as they do not know which will extend an offer. Naturally kids have favored schools on their list or ones that are a more perfect "fit". But we can't all get into our favorite schools and deserve a chance at our safeties or schools that are not our top choice, because we may not get into our top choice. So, if schools see you rate them at the lower end of your ranked list, they won't think you are serious about attending and so there goes your safer fall back options, so to speak. But you might not get into your favorites so you need more schools and deserve to show equal interest in them (and you should ) and you may just have those schools as options in the spring anyway. If the college assumes you don't want them because they are not at the top of your list and so then do not accept you, then you may end up with no place to go if you don't get into your favorite schools either (which you may not given the difficult odds in BFA program admissions). I do think a school deserves the right to not accept you if you show no genuine interest in them but if you put your all into every application, visit and audition and it is genuine, then you deserve a chance to be considered. If a school perceives they are just another name on your list and you don't have much interest, that's another thing all together but if you truly are interested (as you SHOULD be in every school on your list or why apply in the first place), then you deserve equal consideration, in my view.

Susan

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