How my Berkeley Experience Landed Me in the Loony Bin - Real Student Experience

<p>Thank you, UCBChemEGrad, i feel that everyone has their perfect “fit” for college and maybe for Berkeleysurvivor, it just wasn’t a good fit.</p>

<p>“I should have gotten the hint at that point that in Northern California - at least in the “Bay Area” (they call the area around Berkeley and San Francisco the “Bay Area”) it rains ALL THE TIME. Some seasons it seems like it rains like every other day. On the days that it does not rain, it is often really muggy, cold, and depressing out - quite a change from having lived in beautiful Southern California!”</p>

<p>I read this and all credibility was instantly lost. Are you serious? You should have starred in Shutter Island!</p>

<p>It’s been consistently 70F this spring, when my cousins in Minnesota are complaining about all the snow they still have.</p>

<p>I think I’ve counted 15 days where it’s rained this year. I ride an enduro as my daily driver and my socks have gotten wet 2 times. Once was when I drove through a puddle accidentally.</p>

<p>I’ve lived in the Bay Area for more than 5 years. The weather is amazing.</p>

<p>Ended up reading through all of that, it was definitely interesting. I hope the experience has made a better person of you, and I hope the same doesn’t happen to me!</p>

<p>All right, so for those that want to know the gist of this guy’s experience, but don’t want to confront his superfluously detailed monster of a post, it basically goes like this:</p>

<p>1) A happy-go-lucky and starry-eyed kid (with a possible genetic predisposition for mental breakdowns) leaves his comfy little hometown for the big hustle-and-bustle environment of UC Berkeley, where he hopes that his alleged creativity will flourish.</p>

<p>2) At Berkeley’s overnight stay program, the kid must walk up a big hill, and must also experience the rain. He whines about the weather, leaving readers to question how he would deal with weather anywhere else in the country.</p>

<p>3) During the school year, he and his cute hometown girlfriend break up due to the fact that the long-distance thing pretty much never works out.</p>

<p>4) He can’t get any girls at Berkeley due to them being too ugly and too intelligent.</p>

<p>5) Being a small-town kid, he doesn’t like the cramped dorms and is unaccustomed to trucks beeping outside his window, and loudness in general. He also dislikes the dorms for their anti-piracy policy and restrictions on booze (common to all the UC’s, right?).</p>

<p>6) He’s uneasy about the crime at Berkeley (common to most large cities, right?).</p>

<p>7) He’s put off by the radical politics of many student groups.</p>

<p>8) He notes the craziness of the surrounding homeless people, then proceeds to take a crazy homeless person that calls himself Rainbow out to lunch.</p>

<p>9) He witnesses some events that we all know about from the news (the police bashing students thing, the Republican bake sale thing, etc.).</p>

<p>10) As each semester toils on, the once starry-eyed kid begins to find his schoolwork difficult (“for engineers anyways”). He also learns through the hit-and-miss quality of his GSIs that some people are bad at their jobs, while other people are good at their jobs, and that life is thus not totally fair.</p>

<p>11) He goes on and on about precisely why his professors are poor instructors, but his babblings may be summarized by the following sentence: Professors don’t explain the meanings of variables well enough before proceeding to use them in formulas. Luckily, though, there are Youtubers such as PatrickJMT (who really is a very good teacher, by the way) who can better explain certain mathematical concepts.</p>

<p>12) Nevertheless, instructional Youtube videos still don’t make Berkeley coursework easy. Overworked and overstressed, the once happy-go-lucky kid searches course listings for an easy humanities class. He finds “some politically based classes (yuck!), religious based classes (everything except Judeo-Christian), and a few gems like film and music.” Unable to enroll in film or music due to class size restrictions, he instead enrolls in a theatre class that, unfortunately, isn’t really about theatre. So he joins a different theatre class in the following semester and, fortunately, finds that it’s “where all the girls are at”. Great! But wait … He never finds a girl, and even earns a failing grade in the class, which he convinces the grader to raise to a C+. Since his ego is so bruised by a poor grade in a humanities class (hey, those are supposed to be easy, right?), he rationalizes the score by pointing out that it’s all so very subjective. (But really, is anyone surprised that the OP didn’t fare well in a class that requires solid writing skills?) </p>

<p>13) New semester! He enrolls in a class on ethnic studies. His assertion that he “really wanted a break from everyone putting the world’s problems on [his] shoulders as a college kid” indicates immaturity and a lack of curiosity about the wider world, but somehow that’s the fault of the hyper-politicized college environment. Anyway, in his ethnic studies class, he quibbles with a politically radical GSI about the teachings of MLK. Unfortunately, he is incapable of articulating his own point of view on-the-spot, so he instead allows his disagreement with the GSI to fester within his soul, and later pours it all out on College Confidential. Take that, GSI!</p>

<p>14) The professor for the ethnic studies class has written a book which students in the class must purchase. This requirement, common at universities and community colleges, is interpreted by the OP as a “great way for [professors] to make money and feel good about themselves.” At around the same time that he must purchase a book written by a professor, he learns that his friend has been “forced to watch homoerotic scenes from a movie”. The horror!</p>

<p>15) Then he has a mental breakdown, and thereafter can’t regain his zest for life. (No snarky comments here.)</p>

<p>16) Reflecting on his time at Berkeley, the now disillusioned kid considers most of his time there useless. For example, he “learned how to do epsilon-delta proofs (which it turns out, don’t actually prove anything, but rather just formally restate something that is already known).” I guess he was expecting to do original proofs that change the face of mathematics in an undergraduate course. Luckily, though, he’s now learning more “useful information” at his local community college.</p>

<p>17) Later in the thread, he implies a similarity between his own college experience and that of Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and Steve Wozniak. He also implies that perhaps the college experience is better suited for people that “actually like studying and instead of having freedom, to have things laid out before them”, not for uber-creative, self-directed free spirits like him! I always love it when people seem to assume that they’re destined for greatness. </p>

<p>I understand the sympathy for this guy’s mental breakdown, but not the sympathy for most of his school-related endeavors. His few difficulties that are directly related to Berkeley could have been stated (and have been stated by past CC posters) a lot more succinctly. Just to summarize them required a humongous post, and most of them are not even the fault of Berkeley.</p>

<p>1.) What one considers “comfy,” another might not consider so. It’s really all about your own personal likes and dislikes. </p>

<p>2.) If you put it that way, it sounds somewhat sarcastic. The point wasn’t to invoke sympathy, but to emphasize the large amount of walking and rain that new students will experience on campus. I tried to give a detailed account. </p>

<p>3.) Most naive high school kids don’t really understand this, and that’s part of the point I was trying to make. The biological clock is ticking earlier and earlier relative to when it is practical to marry or date (thus education is often used as a means for population control).</p>

<p>4.) That’s not what I said - someone can be very intelligent, but still not spend all their time in academia to to the extent that they are unwilling to date or try to attract a mate. Some people often put out an aura that they are superior, thus making the mutual respect required in a relationship difficult.</p>

<p>(Ill be back to respond to the others in a minute)</p>

<p>4.) The point isn’t that “I couldn’t get girls” (I notice you write with a tone that subtly hints at things like this). The ratio between girls to guys in engineering, however, is vastly disproportional.</p>

<p>5.) I think you were pretty much right on here - the perspective that you have of a new environment partially depends on your experience in the environment from which you came.</p>

<p>6.) I’m not the only one uneasy about the crime in Berkeley - just because it is an urban environment does not make the crime any more permissible or comforting.</p>

<p>7.) I would say that some of the ideas or stances taken by some groups are sort of unreasonable</p>

<p>8.) You are trying to hint at some sort of hypocrisy, but just because I notice that the homeless people around are unruly and can be dangerous, I still treat everybody as human beings</p>

<p>10.) I think that you are using language to sort of hint at the fact that “I’ve come to the realization of something quite obvious and not profound” that “life is not fair.” I would say that most high school students are somewhat naive to the disparities in life, yet realizing them does not make the challenges that exist any more easy to deal with. Each person has their own struggle in life that they must deal with; it is important to understand each person’s struggle and to not judge them by it. Some may struggle in math, yet are excellent at something else, whereas one may excel in math, but have poor street smarts. Einstein himself remarked at his difficulty in math when he was in school.</p>

<p>11.) It is clear by the language that you are using that you consider pretty much everything I wrote as some useless “babble.” One has to ask the question then - why did you even proceed to read the whole thing? I tried to be as detailed as possible to present an alternate, complete, and detailed perspective to incoming students. I wasn’t just talking about variables.</p>

<p>12.) You portray me as someone with mediocre writing skills who comes up with excuses to justify poor grades in writing classes - someone who just expects classes to be easy and whines when they are not. I’m not sure why you feel the need to attack my writing skills (your critique is riddled with personal attacks for some reason?). I did not merely excuse my poor grade by pointing out that writing guidelines are usually pretty vague and up for interpretation (which is accurate, and I explain why), but I even provided an extensive analysis for why I deserved a better grade, to which my GSI actually agreed with. I did not say that I expected these classes to be easier, but that I wanted a creative break from my rigorous engineering classes. </p>

<p>13.) Everyone encounters situations where they have an idea, but things are moving along to quickly to accurately articulate what the idea is on the spot - I’m honest enough to admit that I have run into such situations. I guess you are trying to subtly hint that I am “incapable,” even though nobody is perfect at articulating their point of view immediately (sometimes it requires time to organize ideas coherently to communicate them in an effective way). Of course I was pretty immature coming out of high school - that is part of the point. Many college kids are still just trying to articulate exactly who they are. I didn’t really allow the discussion I had with the GSI to “fester in my soul” or however you want to put it, I just wanted to point out that sometimes GSIs teach a certain way to push beliefs that are not necessarily backed by reason - to take things with a grain of salt and question everything for yourself instead of being mindless.</p>

<p>14.) Some people might find being forced to watch homoerotic scenes in class offensive or inappropriate (whether or not you are gay).</p>

<p>16.) Epsilon Delta proofs don’t have practical value - it was an example. I didn’t really learn very much practical knowledge at UC Berkeley. I know that you consider most of what I have to say as “rubbish,” but I believe that knowledge should be presented with some sort of practical purpose in mind - maybe not to change the field of mathematics, but perhaps ways to use mathematics in the real world.</p>

<p>17.) I’m not trying to be a narcissist by making connections to these figures. I’m trying to communicate a concept by relating it to something that people will recognize (the experiences of famous figures). People are not destined for greatness - people choose their own destiny. Some people get lucky, some are given greatness, and the rest of us must figure things out on our own depending on what we want in life. I love it when people feel that they are destined for greatness too, because I know that anyone can achieve it - it is only self-limiting behavior and conforming that prevents one from obtaining it. The question becomes what the best route to achieve what you want is considering your own personal limitations and strengths - and for me, Berkeley wasn’t it.</p>

<p>I do not appreciate the way that you are trying to portray me - it’s almost like you are trying to send personal attacks. If you like Berkeley, I respect that (in fact, I even mentioned that in the first post). The whole point was to present an alternative perspective to incoming students - to provide as much detail as possible to those who are interested. To me, it seems like you just read the whole thing because you enjoy writing criticisms. Perhaps you should consider becoming a critic?</p>

<p>Hi, Berkeley Survivor, it’s important to not take everything that I say too seriously (see above title, for example). My tone was flippant because I do think that many of the problems that you described can easily be viewed as opportunities for growth, and that difficulties in dealing with them resulted from not having a very thick skin. For just a few examples:</p>

<ul>
<li>The stances taken by certain student groups are unreasonable. Well, so what? The majority of people think they’re unreasonable. Just look away and keep on walking.</li>
<li>The walking is a slight hassle (or good exercise?), and the weather is better than just about anywhere else in the country.</li>
<li>You view college as a great time to find a girl, but you couldn’t find one here. Again, so what? You win some, you lose some.</li>
</ul>

<p>Other problems seemed to stem from a lack of curiosity about anything that is theoretical rather than practical. But practical skills aren’t the main point of a place like Berkeley, or any college that’s supposed to have a strong focus on academics.</p>

<p>I agree with some of the points raised. No one likes crime, for example. But this issue, while not excusable merely because Berkeley is urban, was at least foreseeable because Berkeley is urban. Also, the narrow-mindedness of some students (and instructors) sounds very annoying, but dealing with strong-willed people with opposing views is how you learn to speak up and articulate your own thoughts.</p>

<p>Ultimately, the title of this thread (“How my Berkeley Experience Landed Me in the Loony Bin”) is misleading because none of these experiences, even when taken together, should be enough to land someone in the loony bin.</p>

<p>Hey, I’ve been defending you thus far, but I have to take issue with #14, or at least your choice of words. If your being offended has nothing to do with the homosexuality, don’t say HOMOerotic, just say erotic. Implying that gay sexual content is somehow more offensive than straight sexual content is homophobic. This seems to be unintentional on your part, but that’s how privilege works, by definition.</p>

<p>Also, I’d say one of the things you learn in college is how to evaluate the academic merit of things that offend you. If there was a point to it besides watching porn straight up (which I assume, since this is college), focus on that instead, and maybe even examine the sources of your discomfort. What is it about sexual content that otherwise has academic merit that so offends you? Could it be a cultural construct (especially since in Europe they’re way less concerned with this sort of thing)? In light of that, is your discomfort something you want to maintain? I’m not implying a right or wrong answer here - honestly - but these are questions you might want to consider next time you encounter anything, sexual or otherwise, in class that offends you or makes you uncomfortable. Use it as an opportunity to re-evaluate your mores and comfort zone; leave nothing unchallenged. Either you’ll change your mind to something you think is more correct, or strengthen your resolve in your current view and be better versed in its counterarguments.</p>

<p>I would say that that is a good point</p>

<p>Anyone who doesn’t think that Bay Area weather isn’t good is being ridiculous. Unless of course you prefer blazing heat and sun to 70s… but that’s just me. It hardly ever rains, and the fact that it actually does rain is a good change of pace. Whoever says it rains very often there either lives in a desert or has had a very wrong experience. There’s a reason SoCal is stealing all of our water… it’s a desert out there people.</p>

<p>First point: I’m surprised no one has said anything about your unrealistic expectations about women. I find it kind of sad that you are disappointed that women in Berkeley are intelligent and looking to make a difference in the world instead of there to date guys. You also seem disappointed that women in Berkeley aren’t “easily impressed by guys”. I’m sorry, but what exactly were you expecting? Is it that women in Southern California are so much more into dating and less into academics? </p>

<p>“I would say that I’m attracted to people who are fit, artsy/creative, not too political, down to earth, family oriented, redheads, care about their appearance, and have freckles (I don’t know why, just find it cute, lol).”
-TBH, not that hard to find. Maybe your mistake was trying to get girls in the EECS department, instead of expanding your horizons. It’s a big school.</p>

<p>Your comments in general about women gave off a sexist vibe. Maybe you should be thinking about that first instead of worrying about waiting until you’re like “30 or something where most of the available girls have been with 10 guys already”. Because at that point they’re just ruined, right?</p>

<p>Second point: You seem to have an obvious “SoCal” bias. If the weather in Berkeley wasn’t as “fantastic” as the perfect weather in Southern California, why would you come here? Especially since you learned this while you were visiting the campus, before you had accepted your offer of admission?
You also seem to think we are lazy, “I guess everybody up there is too lazy to say “California,”” and spend am unnecessary portion of your story using quotation marks to talk about slang used by people in Northern California. Obviously, you shouldn’t have come to Northern California in the first place and you knew this when you first visited. </p>

<p>Third point: If this story is true, you were diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. While I realize you were an EECS major and not a Psychology major, I still think that you should know that UC Berkeley cannot cause Major Depressive Disorder. The title of your thread, “How the Berkeley Experience Landed Me in the Looney Bin-Real Student Experience” is misleading and I don’t think you should have posted this in the College Confidential UC Berkeley forum. Depression forums- why not? You have depression and so do probably 20 million other people in the United States. Where would your post be most helpful to others and to yourself? In a depression forum. Not in a college forum, where eager freshmen are deciding where to attend and browsing posts looking for interesting stories about schools. This is simply because your story doesn’t have much to do with the campus and life at Berkeley in general. I know plenty of EECS majors in Berkeley who have good GPAs, are very happy, don’t have a problem extending themselves in order to get a social life/ladies/men and also land high-paying big time internships. Many of your problems had nothing to do with the campus itself and I don’t think Berkeley-bashing is necessarily the most therapeutic way to work through your depression. Most people who go to Berkeley love it (including EECS majors that I know), but also don’t struggle with the same magnitude of depression. Some of the points you made about GSIs and class difficulty are appropriate, but much of it really isn’t.</p>

<p>I hope you can find the help that you need and that you never have to be subjected to an area with hills or rain again. Best of luck.</p>

<p>Berkeley does not cause major depressive disorder, but the stress-diathesis model of depression predicts that once a certain stress threshold has been reached, mental illness can occur in vulnerable individuals who perhaps would have not developed the illness otherwise. I think that it was the culmination of everything, but my experience at Berkeley was no doubt a major and leading factor. Major depression statistics and trends among college aged kids seem to reflect this model.</p>

<p>What part of my experience is relevant or appropriate to one person might not be to another, so I included as much as possible in order to extend to the full spectrum of people that would read it. Some people might not care about the “hilly terrain” or “rainy weather.” That’s fine - I’m not trying to say that I’m some Beverly Hills diva that can’t walk or something - it’s just something that some people might not prefer (some people might prefer a smaller campus).</p>

<p>You are certainly welcome to your own opinions, but this is just my perspective. Let me tell you, though, it was raining very often during my time at UC Berkeley. It was even raining during the protests. </p>

<p>Perhaps this article I wrote will expand what I mean by “girl troubles;” (not to mention, as you have noted, there aren’t that many in engineering)</p>

<p>It seems like everyone is having relationship </p>

<p>trouble these days, but ironically everyone seems </p>

<p>to want a long lasting and meaningful </p>

<p>relationship. So if that’s the case, why aren’t </p>

<p>people working things out? Why are people waiting </p>

<p>so long to get married? Why have divorce rates </p>

<p>skyrocketed and do people just give up when things </p>

<p>get tough? Why do people continue to get intimate </p>

<p>with a partner in uncommitted relationships, break </p>

<p>things off, then feel bad afterwards? </p>

<p>In an age of increasing promiscuity and acceptance </p>

<p>of ideas, it’s easy to blame porn or degeneration </p>

<p>of American ideals, but in other countries where </p>

<p>there is access to the internet and porn, marriage </p>

<p>continues to stay strong, and historically a drop </p>

<p>in committed love is only seen recently.</p>

<p>I talked with a professor at Calarts about the </p>

<p>issue. I want to find a long-lasting stable </p>

<p>relationship with someone who is mature and sweet, </p>

<p>but also not someone who is a goodie-goodie, </p>

<p>naive, and close-minded. But to find such a person </p>

<p>seems impossible - in today’s society, people who </p>

<p>think for themselves and are perceived as mature </p>

<p>(that is, self sufficient and successful) are </p>

<p>often more prone to sleeping around and are older </p>

<p>whereas people who are naive tend to be younger, </p>

<p>to not sleep around, and blindly follow ideals set </p>

<p>by their parents. So why is it that people are </p>

<p>sleeping around more than before, even though </p>

<p>there is an inner need for long lasting personal </p>

<p>intimacy and love?</p>

<p>Part of the problem is frustration. The human </p>

<p>biological clock ticks pretty early, but in a </p>

<p>society where marriage is delayed longer and </p>

<p>longer, people are getting impatient and have </p>

<p>personal needs for intimacy, often resorting to </p>

<p>cohabitation or promiscuity to fill that inner </p>

<p>need. It’s no surprise, though, that people often </p>

<p>feel empty afterwards, since the natural release </p>

<p>of oxytocin creates a desire for bonding after the </p>

<p>initial dopamine lust rush has worn off. Parents </p>

<p>often express disappointment for their children’s </p>

<p>decisions, but aren’t perceptive enough to take </p>

<p>into account the disparity that society is causing </p>

<p>and the emotional impact it has on their children.</p>

<p>What we are seeing is that the same brain reward </p>

<p>circuits involved with drug addiction and </p>

<p>obsessive-compulsive behavior are active when a </p>

<p>person wants to bond as when drugs themselves are </p>

<p>consumed. These chemicals are designed for </p>

<p>reinforcement by filtering out the rest of the </p>

<p>world - which is why ADHD drugs that raise </p>

<p>dopamine help in studying and why a person often </p>

<p>does not see the negative traits in an individual </p>

<p>until way after they have broken up - love is, </p>

<p>indeed, blind. </p>

<p>But just because everything seemingly boils down </p>

<p>to the release of chemicals does not make love any </p>

<p>less profound - it is what the physical mechanisms </p>

<p>parallel that is important - not everything is </p>

<p>just a sum of it’s parts.</p>

<p>But that begs the question - why, exactly, is </p>

<p>marriage delayed longer and longer and are people </p>

<p>more reluctant to tie the knot? A trend is easily </p>

<p>seen in population growth graphs. In societies </p>

<p>where education is increased and where women are </p>

<p>encouraged to pursue academics as much as men, </p>

<p>population growth goes way down, reflecting the </p>

<p>start of less families and less marriages. The </p>

<p>longer it takes to be educated and start one’s </p>

<p>life - to move out and get a stable job, house, </p>

<p>and familial assets, the less likely it is that a </p>

<p>person will be married. Part of the reason stems </p>

<p>in what women are attracted to - success. It takes </p>

<p>longer for men to “grow up,” and it is seen as the </p>

<p>norm to sleep around in this extended "adolescence </p>

<p>period" to stave off personal needs. Both women </p>

<p>and men getting jobs and being educated means that </p>

<p>there is no caretaker role for child rearing. It </p>

<p>also means that there is less need or desire for </p>

<p>close interdependent bonding, because both the guy </p>

<p>and girl are pursuing individual interests rather </p>

<p>than working together for a common goal or </p>

<p>livelihood. Meanwhile, people wonder exactly why </p>

<p>things just didn’t seem to “work out.”</p>

<p>By the time people have been married, they have </p>

<p>already had several sexual, romantic, and </p>

<p>emotional partners, which, unfortunately means </p>

<p>that the quality of their lasting relationship </p>

<p>will often be not as good as if they had married </p>

<p>their first. The reason for this is that after </p>

<p>each breakup, less oxytocin and dopamine are </p>

<p>released in the subsequent relationship. People </p>

<p>become somewhat numb, they often compare their </p>

<p>spouse and expect more. They are no longer tricked </p>

<p>by the filtering mechanisms of love - they have </p>

<p>been let down so many times by it that they have </p>

<p>become too smart to oversee negative traits in </p>

<p>their partner.</p>

<p>So I’m going to have to stand with the Mormons on </p>

<p>this one. Promoting family values and promoting </p>

<p>the idea of getting married young doesn’t mean </p>

<p>that you are a prude or just want to get people </p>

<p>into things before they know what they are getting </p>

<p>into. It’s an escape from a system driven by the </p>

<p>government to limit population growth. Only those </p>

<p>who are smart and perceptive enough can realize </p>

<p>what is going on and find away around the system. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, I have yet to find a suitable girl </p>

<p>that thinks the same way, since so much emphasis </p>

<p>is based on personal feelings at any given moment </p>

<p>or what society says.</p>

<p>Often times, increasing educational bars and </p>

<p>requirements are pitched as a good thing - people </p>

<p>just don’t see that it’s more hoops to jump </p>

<p>through. There really isn’t that much more </p>

<p>relevant information that should require 5+ more </p>

<p>years of education and a rising student debt to </p>

<p>get the same job that only required a bachelor’s </p>

<p>degree 20 years ago. Even after a prolonged </p>

<p>education, most people actually learn how to work </p>

<p>while on the job, gradually forgetting all the </p>

<p>irrelevant information they learned in college.</p>

<p>Dad, for example, never got a college degree yet </p>

<p>complains that his co-workers from MIT and Caltech </p>

<p>have no idea what they are doing so he has to baby </p>

<p>them along. </p>

<p>So next time you complain about your relationship </p>

<p>prospects, think about how the system is affecting things </p>

<p>and try and find ways to work around it.</p>

<p>Nenolam, your portrayal of Socal weather as “blazing” and desert-like reflects my point. Where you come from helps determine how you perceive a new setting. The question then becomes - would you enjoy moving to SoCal where is is much hotter and “blazing?” (Never mind the utility of saying “no I wouldn’t mind” just to try to refute what I’m saying)</p>

<p>I’m not here to pick fights, I just simply wanted to present a different perspective. My intentions aren’t malicious and I’m not trying to invoke sympathy or “get back” or complain.</p>

<p>Again, if you disagree, I totally understand - everyone has their own unique perspective.</p>

<p>Calibabe, I poked fun at his attitude toward women when I said:

</p>

<p>Now get a load of his latest post:

</p>

<p>What exactly is the purpose of one “common goal” within a marriage? Two people can have two separate goals and both support one another’s goal without sacrificing “interdependent bonding”. In this regard, marriage is no different from a lifelong friendship.</p>

<p>Moreover, your assertion that both partners having an education and career somehow has a negative effect on child rearing is unfounded. Most women, and some men, take time off work (or work from home) during their children’s first four or five years. Otherwise, they enroll their kids at a daycare or hire a babysitter if they can afford one. Don’t worry, the children of America aren’t suffering just because both mommy and daddy have jobs (in fact, they tend to benefit from having two educated parents). And marriages aren’t suffering from it, either, as long as both partners find time for each other at the end of the day, which requires nothing more than some planning and good communication.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Now there’s a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one.</p>

<p>All right, you got me. This is all just some plot in order to deter students from going to UC Berkeley because I’m part of some major company and I don’t want people to be educated so that my corporate empire will take over the Bay Area. I guess I’m just a whiner, racist, bigot, extremist, sexist, incompetent, and whatever else you can fit up your arse.</p>

<p>Dude, get over yourself, if you disagree, that’s fine, but you don’t have to be such a dick about it. This isn’t a competition. I bet you sat there and read through what I had to say specifically with the intention of picking it apart in order to inflate your personal pride on the internet (confidence issues?). No matter what I write, it’s going to be picked apart to pieces - especially if I am perceived as becoming defensive - that’s just human nature. Lol, I guess I’m sort of defending myself now - it’s a bad habit. Pigs will play in the mud, as they say (not calling you a pig, just an expression), there’s no point in trying to wrestle one - one is likely just to get dirty in the process. </p>

<p>Look, I’m not pulling these ideas out of my arse. Have you ever taken an environmental science class? Population pyramids clearly show a correlation between increased educational requirements and the neutralization of gender roles with a sharp decrease in population growth, corresponding with increases in divorce, later marriage ages, and less families. Whatever you feel about gender roles and increased educational requirements is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is the current system is clearly disrupting gender dynamics and the formation of lasting pair bonds. I will leave the reason for this statistical fact up to your own personal interpretation, but I’m not the only one who has had the conclusion that I came to - in fact, many prominent figures in the field think the same thing.</p>

<p>If you don’t believe in what I have to say, that’s fine - a simple google search might help you by shedding light on the subject - if you can’t understand the concept by now, I really can’t help you. I realize that continually trying to defend what I am saying is just a waste of my breath (“get a load of this - he said ‘waste of his breath’ when he was actually typing, not talking!” Harr harr harr - how mature.)</p>

<p>Anyways, if you want to continue to derail me personally, I probably won’t answer, since I’m probably going to be too busy looking up conspiracy theories with your girlfriend in the shower. Again, the whole thread was meant to provide a different perspective to incoming students who think Berkeley will just be ice cream cones and lollipops, not for internet trolls butthurt about someone’s experience and opinions about a school needing a confidence booster. I wish someone had given me a heads up and given me the pros and cons before I went (seemed to be only “pros”)! No offense, but the way that you are behaving is exactly what deters people from speaking up about issues. I had a few people actually PM me and personally thank me for being honest about my experiences rather than just keeping my mouth shut in order to not have to deal with all the trolls dicking around (probably over PMs so that they wouldn’t be attacked too). Clearly, to them, what I posted was actually relevant. Anyways, I’m gonna go to sleep - it’s getting pretty late.</p>

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<p>I never said or implied that you aren’t being genuine. You are being genuine, which is what makes your emotional frailty so hilarious.</p>

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<p>Whiner? Yes. You can say that again. Racist, bigot, extremist? No. Sexist, and incompetent? Not sure, but it’s starting to look that way.</p>

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<p>I’m being a “d***” about it (even though I’m female, by the way) because bad ideas and attitudes are worth criticizing harshly. Do you not want anyone to criticize your point of view, or your attitude? Then don’t ever communicate. Because as long as you keep voicing your opinions, they’re going to get knocked by someone else. </p>

<p>I don’t understand why you think I’m trying to “compete” with you. I’m merely responding to opinions that I disagree with.</p>

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<p>Nope, no confidence issues here. But given your extreme defensiveness, there certainly seem to be a few on your end. And I’m not trying to paint everything you say in the worst possible light; your posts pretty much do that for themselves.</p>

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<p>You’re absolutely correct in saying that whatever you write will be picked to pieces. And that’s how it should be, because sometimes the little pieces all add up to a larger conclusion. In this case, the conclusion is that you’re insufferably petulant and weak. I’m starting to see why you disliked Berkeley so much: It’s because any disagreement, no matter how minor, is perceived by you as a fight.</p>

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<p>No s***, Sherlock. Obviously, traditional gender roles diminish as women become better educated. The difference between you and me is that you view the decline of traditional gender roles as negative, whereas I view it as positive.</p>

<p>A decrease in population would not be an adverse phenomenon; in fact, we are multiplying at an exponential rate, and our world’s resources continue to be exhausted because of it. An increase in divorce is not an adverse phenomenon; it implies that our society is less condemnatory about divorce, and that women now have the economic freedom to pursue independence if they so choose. Later marriage ages is not an adverse phenomenon; it simply means that many people are trying to get the rest of their lives squared away before settling down.</p>

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<p>No, whatever I feel about gender roles is entirely relevant, because you told us how you feel about it. Once again, you perceive the disruption of “gender dynamics” and “lasting pair bonds” as a societal flaw, and I don’t. And your conclusion is not bolstered by the fact that you supposedly have “prominent figures in the field” behind you, because 1) there are many other “prominent figures” that would disagree with you, and more importantly 2) you should be able to defend your own position.</p>

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<p>I don’t even know what you’re referring to, here. Are you saying that I don’t understand the fact that traditional gender roles are changing? Again, I do “understand the concept” that traditional gender roles are on the decline. Unlike you, I’m not getting my panties in a bunch over it.</p>

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<p>Why can’t you defend your position? According to you, the government has conspired to limit population growth by increasing educational requirements. Like all conspiracy theories, this one fits quite nicely into your sociopolitical outlook, but it’s scientifically hilarious.</p>

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<p>No one thinks that about Berkeley, though. Everyone understands that Berkeley is a competitive college. Apparently, you were the only one that missed the memo.</p>

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<p>No, it’s not. Because many people have voiced complaints about Berkeley, and I agree with many of their complaints. I’m being confrontational with you – not with just anyone that dislikes Berkeley – because you have gripes that I believe to be invalid and, frankly, whiny. Many people on CC have presented their opinions about Berkeley by using facts that are relevant to Berkeley. Why can’t you understand this? Your original post goes on and on and on about irrelevant details that are supposed to illustrate a series of stressful events but, in fact, only succeed in revealing how emotionally fragile you are. </p>

<p>Calibabe said it best here:</p>

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<p>And the tone of your original post is not helpful, so don’t use that charade. You did not come here to help out other people. You came to vent, and to have anonymous people kiss your boo-boos. </p>

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<p>Well, la-tee-da. Those people are probably just as delicate as you are.</p>

<p>I have gone through most of the posts! My observation based on my personal experience (decades back!) could be something like the following:</p>

<h1>Berkeley is too liberal and often many students find the ambience not suitable for undergraduate (college) education.</h1>

<h1>The so-called intellectual discussion, with pronounced left leaning ideas, are too heavy for many 18 year students!</h1>

<h1>The academic pressure for maintaining a higher GPA, puts an unnecessary burden.</h1>

<h1>Sizable percentage of Asian students, with very different grooming, is little more to digest for a “typical” American student.</h1>

<p>In my honest opinion, Berkeley is a great place for graduate students,researchers, and yes, students with liberal views, politically inclined, socially upright opinion buildres. But how many of the entering class fall into that categorey? </p>

<p>Finally, to all those who are very supportive of everything at Berkeley, please ignore my observation as i am not here to join a fight:)</p>

<p>Regardless of who’s right or wrong in this discussion, I think it’s clear that there are problems at Berkeley. Unfortuantely, I don’t think the culture at Berkeley is going to change any time soon.</p>

<p>Please do not resurrect old threads. For more relevant discussion, please start a new thread.</p>