A Few Words of Advice From a Current Berkeley Student to Prospective Students

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>Hey,</p>

<p>So I used to browse this thread when I was in high school (maybe even before that). And I recently joined again to get some information on other schools because I am actually looking to transfer for the coming fall of my junior year. The purpose of this post is not to discourage you from coming to Berkeley, but informing you about why I don't think I can stay here any longer. I believe that people seem to generally be very happy and enthusiastic to be at Berkeley. There also, however, seems to be a significant enough minority of people who don't like the school very much. Unfortunately, I guess I'm in that minority. I just think it's important to understand why this minority exists, especially if you think you might sound like someone who’d be in that minority. </p>

<p>Here are my thoughts about this school:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Size - I didn't realize how big a school of 26,000 undergrads could feel until I got here. It's definitely easy to feel very invisible at this school. I'm currently well into my 3rd semester here, and I still haven't been able to sense much community in this school. And it makes sense. It's because there's a very large population. There are definitely benefits to this. It means there are tons of classes where you can just not go whenever you want, and no one gives a damn. It also means you don't have to meet the same people over and over again. It also means you can do something really stupid and not have to deal with everyone in the entire school knowing about it. It also means that when you truly excel in a class, which is a generally a really hard thing to do (unless it's one of those few but definitely present classes where everyone gets As), you can really feel proud of it, because it's against a lot of people, many of whom are very intelligent. </p></li>
<li><p>Atmosphere - But it's also not the most comfortable atmosphere. I've generally felt a very serious vibe on campus. People aren't out on campus to meet new people or make new friends. No, people are always on a mission, and you're either on it or you're not. You'll meet some really cold people around here. It's a bit suffocating, so definitely consider that, if you're like me and you don't do well in these kinds of environments. </p></li>
<li><p>Classes - I've had some really cool classes, and I've also had a few too many very, very disappointing classes. If you want my personal thoughts on certain classes, feel free to message me, but I'm not going to badmouth specific classes on this post. Most of my classes have been 3 lectures per week with a 1-2 hour discussion group with a GSI (Grad School Instructor). Some classes are absolutely amazing. But it seems that every semester, there's at least one class that's taught by some dude who might do great things in a lab but couldn't care less about my education. Some classes have left me feeling incredibly confused and completely unsupported. I also usually have a class where I have a weekly discussion group with a GSI who either grades significantly harder than the others or is incompetent. Sometimes you can get a GSI who is the only one to give pop quizzes or weekly papers. All of my GSIs have been responsible for much of my grade, as they graded my papers, graded my midterms, monitored my participation...etc... It really sucks when your GSI doesn't really know anything, or sucks at explaining things, or has a very thick accent, or grades much more harshly than other GSIs. And it happens enough times that at some point, many people begin to wonder if it could possibly be this bad at other supposedly elite schools. The point is, a lot of the time, you're going to have a teacher who has no idea who you are and has no personal interest in furthering your growth for a semester. And actually, a lot of your fellow classmates will give you that vibe as well. The only type of class I've ever had where you actually get to know the names of your classmates and actually get to interact with humans is language class. Otherwise, you'll find that in a lot of your classes, you won't ever learn the name of the person you sat next to in discussion, and people keep completely to themselves unless they're with classmates with someone they knew previously. Your classmates definitely aren't there to interact much or meet new people. Like I said, people here always have a mission, and you’re on it or you’re not.</p></li>
<li><p>Social scene – The social scene seems to work just fine for many people. However, I have not had a very good experience with it here. Don’t get me wrong, I was definitely proactive in finding my niche. I joined the Greek life, I’ve joined clubs involved in local education (something I’m really passionate about), I’ve gone out to parties, to games…etc… Despite all of this, I’ve found that many of my relationships with people have been fairly artificial. For the most part, my time in Greek life has been predominately about partying with a consistent group of people and not really about making any meaningful bonds. Many of the clubs I’ve been in have been blatantly obvious resume builders without much actual collaboration or passion. If you want to party on the weekends, the parties are there. But if you’re gonna attend Berkeley, know that it’s difficult to find a community that you feel a true sense of belonging to. There are going to be tempting opportunities to try and build these communities out of drinking and partying, but if that’s what your friendships are based on, it’ll grow old very fast. I never have trouble making friends, ever, wherever I go. My time at Berkeley has been a fairly lonely one, however, and if you have trouble making friends and that is important to you, then consider that before you come here. You can make friends anywhere you go, but Berkeley is a very big place with very busy, ambitious, and oftentimes competitive people. </p></li>
<li><p>Prestige – Yeah, Berkeley is pretty freakin’ prestigious. And it’s cool that you can go anywhere in the country, and if you mention that you attend UC Berkeley, people automatically assume you’re pretty intelligent. Berkeley is world renowned for its academics. This will definitely, definitely help in job searches. The name is huge. I was an absolute prestige monger. But now I realize that yes, the name does a lot for me, but it’s also just a name. I feel that Berkeley’s size really limits its educational value. Personally, I think all classes should be taught by someone whose first priority is to teach his or her students. I think that an important part of what makes a good class is human interaction, between classmates among classmates and students with teachers. This is the advantage of smaller, private schools. If this is important to you, keep in mind that this is not really what you’ll get at Berkeley.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Berkeley is a great school, but it’s not for everyone. It’s a school that does not coddle you whatsoever, and I’d even go so far as to say that it’s a school that doesn’t really care much about you as a student. If you’re looking for a tight knit community, for a level of personal attention in the classroom, for chances to safely explore different fields and look for your field of choice, this may not be the best place for you. If you know what you want out of college, and know what you want to study and are confident in your competitiveness in it, then you might really succeed here. If, however, you’re not sure about what you want to study but want to be able to safely check things out in various fields, it’ll be tough because you’ll be competing against many, many students who know that it’s their field and are confident in its respective required skills.</p>

<p>Before I chose Berkeley, I read a very controversial thread in which someone listed off reasons to not go to Berkeley. I thought it was written a bit immaturely. I thought it came off as overdramatic. Some people agreed with the OP, others fiercely argued against the OP. Eventually though, I came to agree with many of the things the OP had said. I just wanted to present my thoughts on this school in an honest and fair manner. I have not enjoyed my Berkeley experience, and if after reading this, you have some doubts about Berkeley, really do your research before you choose to attend. If you are a fellow Berkeley student, feel free to speak on your experiences, but I’m very busy and if you’re looking to get into a debate, I don’t really have time to argue with you. </p>

<p>If you’re a prospective student and you have some questions about the school, feel free to private message me. Otherwise, good day!</p>

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<p>Great post.
Good luck at UCB and beyond!</p>

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<p>Your concerns and observations are quite valid, however there are some things that may not necessarily be different in other colleges. </p>

<ul>
<li>Class size: Very true of all large universities, perhaps a LAC might be a better fit. LACs are not without their problems though and I strongly suggest you visit and attend some guest classes at any other college you might be considering. Tuition cost is another factor.</li>
</ul>

<p>-Friendships: Yes, very true, once kids go to college and a competitive one at that, students are stressed in terms of future, jobs and new friendships take time. Having said that, some folks are content with a group they can associate with (maybe extra curriculars, cultural…).</p>

<p>Other suggestions - have you looked into study abroad programs, that maybe a good compromise than to actually change college all together , where the new place may or may not be the same as what you have now. Not sure of your major, but one way to get to know professors is to start working with them. Again, I am sure there are opportunities at Berkeley to do so, though they may be hard to get.</p>

<p>One thing about college - People do need to adjust their expectations…keep the end goal in mind. You might also post in the college search and selection board or the college life [College</a> Life - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/]College”>College Life - College Confidential Forums) in this forum and find that folks are all in same boat as you. So be careful in quickly jumping ship. Take advice of your parents as well and get their perspective on things. Hope it all works out.</p>

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<p>Current Cal student here. The concerns that OP has are things that I’ve heard repeatedly from other students. The problems here at Cal go far beyond what can be attributed to a large public university. The culture here is not well-rounded and student are overly competitive, even more so then when I took classes at Harvard over the summer. Nevertheless, Cal is a fantastic school and it’s important that each individual find the college that is the right fit for them. Personally, I like it here but that doesn’t mean that I don’t see the problems.</p>

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<p>Summer sessions may not be reflective of a school’s usual students.</p>

<p>Overly competitive students may depend on which courses. Lower division courses populated by students who face a high GPA admissions gateway (e.g. pre-med courses, pre-business courses, and (to a somewhat lesser extent) pre-any-capped-L&S-major courses) might seem to have more overly competitive students.</p>

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<p>Interestingly, Berkeley doesn’t even fall in the top 10 of stressful colleges
[America?s</a> 50 most stressful colleges and universities are smart, too | SmartPlanet](<a href=“America's 50 most stressful colleges and universities are smart, too | ZDNET”>America's 50 most stressful colleges and universities are smart, too | ZDNET)</p>

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<p>^ I mean, how much do you trust/believe lists like these?
OP, I hope you find a college that suits you better. I for one thrive in the serious environment, I like that all my peers are as into academia as I am. And as a sophomore, you probably haven’t taken upperdiv classes yet which are much more personal, focused, and interesting.
Though Berkeley stresses me out and there are certain things I’d love to change, I wouldn’t change my decision to go here if given the chance.</p>

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<p>^The list is actually pretty indicative of the high pressure environment in the top colleges. Think of it this way - the admit profiles of all these colleges are all in the top 10% of high school, in some schools (esp. the ivy league) , I have heard 50% were either val/salutarian. I have been a big proponent of “fit” but even now everyone just goes by rankings/name brand, so people should really be cognizant of the kind of environment you can excel in.</p>

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<p>^ I think that it’s important to note that Ivy Leagues have a far more generous bell curve than Cal. The grade inflation is quite generous and it’s difficult to fail out of an Ivy Leagues with all of the pampering that they do. It’s not uncommon to have a class at Cal with 10% As and 50% As at some Ivies for the bell curve.</p>

<p>Just because they have a strong admit profile it doesn’t mean that their environment is more stressful. If you want to play that game (where we look at things by numbers and rankings), then we can look at each individual program for Cal vs. the Ivies. Cal has more top 10 programs than all of them, including Harvard. [Top</a> 20 for Top 10s: QS World University Rankings by Subject 2013 | Top Universities](<a href=“http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings-articles/university-subject-rankings/top-20-top-10s-qs-world-university-rankings-subject-2013]Top”>Top 20 for Top 10s: QS World University Rankings by Subject 2013)</p>

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<p>Look no one is playing a game here. This post was originally to help the OP out. I am not going into Cal vs Ivies etc.etc. Have known a number of people who have actually studied in those colleges…UChicago, Columbia, Cornell, Princeton, Stanford. Some of those colleges are on quarter system making it very stressful. When you put a bunch of overachievers together, it is bound to be competitive and stressful.</p>

<p>The point I am trying to make is - go for your fit and don’t obsess over name brand. This post is not about rankings or which college gives out most A’s.</p>

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<p>I just meant the list didn’t seem very accurate to me, I mean USC (a school I’m very familiar with) is ranked as more stressful than Cal, really?? But then again, they might be measuring different things as stressful (ex: while I’m only factoring in trying to get a high gpa, they may not be factoring that in at all and just going with trying to get a job).
But I get your point.</p>

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<p>It is pretty hard to make an accurate comparison because there are not students who have studied the same stuff at two schools from the same background.</p>

<p>Even in the case of transfer students, they will be taking introductory courses at one school and more advanced courses at the other school. For graduate students comparing their undergraduate school to their graduate school, the perspective on something like frosh economics, psychology, biology, or physics may be different for a graduate student who has been studying economics, psychology, biology, or physics for four years compared to when s/he was a frosh learning it for the first time.</p>

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<p>Here’s a look at the REAL top 10:

  1. Caltech/MIT/UC Berkeley
  2. Princeton/Stanford/Harvard/Penn/Yale/Columbia
  3. Cornell/Brown/UChicago</p>
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<p>yes thank you dina, i was just making a generic point. You did get it :slight_smile: i know those rankings are subjective as all rankings…but you did get the point i was making .</p>

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<p>agree to this order in term of the “TOP 5%” of student population. If you are “TOP 5%” at Berkeley, you can apply to any graduate school and they want you badly</p>

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<p>@fall2016parent</p>

<p>My post wasn’t a post to compare Cal and the Ivies to determine what schools are better. I’m responding to your point about how the environment and profile of the college heavily contributes to what you call at “high pressure environment in the top colleges”. I think that student admit profile alone is not enough to compare the competitive environment of each college. The harsher bell curve at Cal and the fact that many of it’s programs are ranked higher than may Ivies add it different prospective to your point. I understand and support students choosing a college that fits them well, but I find it odd that in saying that you are only talking about fit and not objective rankings that you bring in a ranking on competitiveness.</p>

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<p>And how would you know much about the pampering at the Ivy League? Could it be based on pure hearsay and mythical tales based on idle speculation?</p>

<p>Have you ever thought that the high grades might simply be the normal for students who were accepted after never earning grades lower than As? Have you thought that people rarely flunk out of the Ivy League because the admitted students are culled from … the best students to begin with? </p>

<p>Take a look at this program, and let us know if you think it’s a pampering affair:
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_Studies_at_Yale_University[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_Studies_at_Yale_University&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As far as your tales about bell curves, perhaps you should also think about how transfers handle the load at Cal after spending their first years in some Junior college. The same students who not have a whisper of a chance to be admitted in selective school after graduating from high school.</p>

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<p>Seriously?</p>

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<p>“Your mileage may vary”</p>

<p>I can totally see empathize with the points that RiversAndRoads are making.</p>

<p>Much luck on your transfer! I think life is more fun when there are ups and downs.</p>

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<p>@xiggi</p>

<p>I don’t think you have any idea of what you are talking about or what a bell curve even is. On a bell curve, a certain percentage of students will be assigned a certain grade. For example, in a given class 20% of the students may receive As, 30% Bs, and so on and so forth. It does not matter how ambitious the students are or how much they want to get an A, 20% of them will receive an A regardless of their actual course grade. You can have an 85% in a class and receive a B- or C+. It has nothing to do with them being top students, if its on a bell curve then it is impossible for them to all receive As. The bell curve at the Ivies are far more generous hence their higher grades. Grades are not assigned by a raw score.</p>

<p>The program at Yale that you link has nothing to do with pampering. I am not saying that the programs are not good (or students), I don’t think you’re understanding that. I am saying that the bell curve is much more generous for Ivies and the resources per student that they have is far greater. It is widely known that the Ivies pamper their students and that it is difficult to fail out, use Google, it’s not difficult. </p>

<p>I also like how your little jab there at the end about transfers, adjusting to a bell curve has nothing to do with what a bell curve actually is, something that you do not understand at all. Not surprising at all given your post history and it’s childish nature. On another note, transfer tend to perform better than freshmans here at Cal and our graduation rates are higher. If you would actually read my posts you would know that I’ve studied at Harvard before and aced the class.</p>