<p>Is UC Berkeley more prestigious than some Ivy League Universities??
Why is CAL so prestigious internationally but not in the US?</p>
<p>On the contrary, Berkeley is the top public university in the whole country, and has been for many, many years. As for its resemblance to Ivy League schools, that’s like comparing apples and oranges…</p>
<p>
I would equate prestige with respect.
In terms of prestige/respect, Berkeley would rival Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford. Harvard is probably in a league of its own.
The reason is obvious. Almost every department at Berkeley is ranked in the top 5 in the nation. It is number one in terms of having academic departments ranked in the top 5 in the nation. Stanford is a close second.
Dartmouth and Brown aren’t really research universities, which hurt their prestige as academic institution as general public has respect for universities that have contributed to the betterment of life.
Berkeley is the only school in the world that is on the periodic table of chemistry - the Berkelium element. </p>
<p>So, yes, Berkeley is more prestigious than some of the ivies, equal to some, and below Harvard.</p>
<p>
I don’t think Berkeley isn’t prestigious in the US. All surveys would confirm that Berkeley’s prestige is just right behind HYPSM for undergrad and better than some HYPSM for postgrad, save for MIT.
The reason why Berkeley undergrad is not as prestigious as its postgrad - in America - is because Berkeley is miser to OOS students in terms of scholarship privileges. Not only that, Berkeley reserves only a few slots to OOS students. So, in effect, Berkeley is snobbish to OOS and that affects its popularity and desirability for OOS. But its prestige is still intact. Its PA score is still on par with Yale and Caltech, which is just right beloe Harvard’s.</p>
<p>Why is Berkeley more respected internationally? I think it’s because international students are mostly attracted to postgrad education when looking for US schools and Berkeley is top 5 in almost all departments. Name me 3 programs where Berkeley isn’t considered a top 5.</p>
<p>pooping and farting</p>
<p>I think the US tends to be label/rank obsessed. You can bet if Berkeley would crack the top 10 and remain there for a couple of years you’ll see a shift in prestige in the US. The older generation tends to think Berkeley is as prestigious as probably the world does because it used to be ranked next to some of the top 10s we see today.</p>
<p>Also prestige is relative. If you want prestige to matter it will depend on what type of social circles or people you will relate to in your personal and professional life. I see your from Compton Cali or are at least located there. You should know that for some of your classmates or even people in inner city la, the prestigious school for them would include USC. We all know that USC doesn’t join the ranks of schools like HYPSM, but for some it does. Frankly, I’d even be surprised by those who knew of MIT’s prestige in inner city LA as it could easily pass for a Devry type school by just the name.(The exception would be those who have heard of it because of films like “21”)</p>
<p>Berkeley loses quite a bit reputation by limiting OOS/international to 10%. Rarely students in the East Coast apply and/or enroll Berkeley anymore. So overtime, people don’t view/regard Berkeley in the same light.</p>
<p>For most engineering students, nowadays CalTech and MIT are top two.</p>
<p>For students in Northeast, Cornell and Carnegie Mellon are next two choices.</p>
<p>For students in Southeast, Ga Tech is the choice.</p>
<p>For students in Midwest, Illionis and Michigan are the choice.</p>
<p>For students in Texas, UTexas got a lot of students.</p>
<p>Of course, Berkeley is still highly regarded in California (and western coast) and Asian countries.</p>
<p>jim,
Very intelligent post and observations. </p>
<p>RML,
The regard for most schools will vary as you move around the country. Probably only HYPSM have a truly powerful national brand for undergraduate education. After that, regionalism will have a very large effect as regionally prominent privates with some national brand power and state schools in certain regions will be the most revered and the most connected. That’s not a knock on any of these regional powers and some top state Us; it’s a testament to the fact that there are a lot of very good schools with very good students all over the USA. It’s a decentralized system that thankfully is quite different from what one gets in more state-controlled countries with their highly structured university systems. </p>
<p>With specific regard to UC Berkeley, once you get east of Denver, the school is just not in the news much. Where it is known, its graduate programs are better known and respected than its undergrad. But even some of them (Boalt, Haas, UCSF) draw relatively limited numbers from outside of the West. </p>
<p>For many folks in other parts of the country, the name “Berkeley” brings up visions of the land of the fruits and the nuts and the place where a lot of student riots took place back in the 60s. Marin is undoubtedly more responsible than Berkeley for this unflattering public image and IMO the national media gives way too little credit for the great things that go on in California (including at UCB), but you have to understand that folks in other parts of the country who are sending their kids to Ivies or top LACs or top southern privates don’t spend a lot of time or effort thinking about UC Berkeley. They’ve got great places nearer to them and they very well might respond to a question on Berkeley’s prestige with “who cares what goes on at UC Berkeley?”</p>
<p>
Those older rankings were based entirely on peer assessment. Berkeley is still top 10 in the most current USNWR ranking if we utilize that method:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard, Stanford, MIT = 4.9</li>
<li>Yale, Princeton = 4.8</li>
<li>Berkeley = 4.7</li>
<li>Caltech, Chicago, Columbia = 4.6</li>
<li>Penn, Johns Hopkins, Cornell = 4.5</li>
</ol>
<p>PA is an opinion poll of 2,000 academics. </p>
<p>A Gallup opinion poll of post-grads listed these colleges as best:
Harvard 29%
Stanford 27%
Yale 14%
MIT 11%
Berkeley 7%
Princeton 7%
Michigan 7%
[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>
<p>So, in educated circles, Berkeley is among the most prestigious.</p>
<p>
When did East Coast undergrad students ever apply/enroll at Berkeley in great numbers?</p>
<p>Berkeley is most renowned for its graduate programs where it pulls in an international pool of applicants.</p>
<p>"Marin is undoubtedly more responsible than Berkeley for this unflattering public image "</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.northbayre.com/blog/2008/07/10/marin-county-california-best-place-to-raise-kids-says-forbes-magazine/[/url]”>http://www.northbayre.com/blog/2008/07/10/marin-county-california-best-place-to-raise-kids-says-forbes-magazine/</a></p>
<p>"Forbes Magazine’s assessment of Marin County as a place to raise children follows: “If money were no object, Marin would be tops on our list.” </p>
<p>And the article goes on to state that “[Marin] offers the best education in the country, with a 97% graduation rate and a list-topping SAT score of 1,133.” Of course, with a median home price of $901,900, Marin is also the highest priced County on the list."
<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/27/schools-places-family-forbeslife-cz_zg_0630realestate.html[/url]”>http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/27/schools-places-family-forbeslife-cz_zg_0630realestate.html</a></p>
<p>Look into the detail of the Gallup poll that ucb posted. I think it’s clear that Harvard is the runaway # 1 and Stanford/Yale are solidly ahead of everyone else. Then comes MIT before a slight drop to where it gets pretty bunched and you have the following results:</p>
<p>% saying this school was either # 1 or # 2 in the USA, College</p>
<p>4% = Princeton, Notre Dame, UC Berkeley
3% = Duke, UCLA, U Michigan
2% = U Penn, Penn State, Ohio State, Texas A&M, U Texas, U North Carolina</p>
<p>I also thought that the regional detail was most telling. Here are the schools that were most often ranked in those regions:</p>
<p>East: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Penn State, U Penn</p>
<p>Midwest: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U Michigan, Notre Dame</p>
<p>South: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Duke, Texas A&M</p>
<p>West: Harvard, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale, MIT, UCLA</p>
<p>dstark,
Do you disagree with the Marin comment? </p>
<p>One of my alltime favorite WSJ articles was on the “pet parties” that went on in places like Mill Valley and San Rafael and how they would get out their finest silver to serve Fido and his friends. Classic California story. </p>
<p>Did I hit too close to home and that is your neighborhood?? :)</p>
<p>^ Marin = home of Barbara Boxer…says it all.</p>
<p>I actually didn’t understand your Marin comment. ;)</p>
<p>Do you think Marin has a 60’s type reputation today?'</p>
<p>Nah, those folks mostly got priced out of that market back in the 90s. But reputations are sticky, even if they’re outdated…(sorta like PA scores 
).</p>
<p>^ Yeah, I didn’t really understand it either. </p>
<p>Berkeley’s City Council (closely followed by Santa Monica) is the poster child of looney-leftism.</p>
<p>Hawkette…lol.</p>
<p>I happen to like Marin and Berkeley. :eek:.</p>
<p>Marin…best place to raise kids…Forbes said so. :)</p>
<p>By the way…Berkeley real estate…very expensive.</p>
<p>dstark,
Oh, don’t misunderstand me. I like Marin too with the beach and the Muir woods and Mount Tam and Ross and neat places like Tiburon to have a great brunch. My earlier reference to Marin was a residue of how I just used to love all of the “only in Marin” stories and jokes that Herb Caen would put in his column. Very entertaining stuff.</p>
<p>I know about Berkeley real estate. It’s ridiculous. Hopefully not, but with all of the idiocy playing out in Sacramento, someday that pyramid may come crashing down.</p>
<p>I know you weren’t really saying anything bad about Marin.
Obviously the state government is a mess.</p>
<p>I keep waiting for prices to go down in Berkeley but it doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>And inventories are low there.</p>
<p>Home prices are dropping more in Marin.</p>
<p>I enjoyed Herb Caen.</p>