This is the “custodial mom struggles by, noncustodial dad makes beaucoup bucks, likely won’t pay” story. I hadn’t worried too much about this in the past, because we live near a midwestern state flagship that till recently has been quite good. You could go here, miss very little, and apply to a top graduate program with reasonable odds of success. It’s taken a hard dive in the rankings and for excellent reasons, and it’s no longer a place I’d recommend any really bright and promising kid attend unless there’s really no alternative. Even so, I hadn’t been worried about her fin aid chances at SLACs until her dad started making lots more money and it became clear that he didn’t mind torpedoing her fin aid chances; he still wasn’t likely to pay any more than required by the decree, which amounts to about $7K/yr, and even that will have to be wrung out of him.
She’s still years out from applying – 8th grade – but it’d be nice to do some realistic planning as she starts high school.
I’m aware of the noncustodial PROFILE issues and the fact that even those few LACs that don’t require it usually have their own forms. There’s no way here to claim abandonment. I’m lower-middle income – usually around $35-40K – so there won’t be much if anything from Pell. She’s very bright, scores 98th/99th %ile on state standardized tests, seldom anything below an A-, but she’s also 1970s-sane about life and not inclined to live like a panicked 45-year-old in order to try to get an admissions edge. Nor will I encourage her to do that. I actually work on the SAT and have a sense of how it goes, and suspect that her percentiles on ACT/SAT will run around 92-95th %ile for language-based things, 80ish %ile for math, and if she has to take subject tests they’ll be nice but not stupendous. She’ll probably walk out of high school with something like a 3.7 GPA. There are no Westinghouse competitions or state youth orchestra auditions visible on the horizon. Just a normal bright well-read/well-spoken academic-household kid who knows how to work and wants to make something of her life. If I had to choose a school today that fit her temperamentally, I’d say the closest I could think of would be Brandeis. (She actually likes Wellesley hugely, but I’d be a little surprised if she could get in, and even though she’s pretty darn sororal she’s just not a Wellesley-scale grind, imo. At least not at this point.)
I’m aware that the Brandeises of the world aren’t going to give her the kind of aid she’ll need without her dad’s help. All the huge-endowment schools I see are pretty firm about using the dad’s household income, too. Where are the sweet spots, though, for kids in this position?
I really don’t want to send her here – there really are still plenty of good faculty, but when they’re responsible for a thousand kids a semester and musical-chairs performance-goal insanity devised by admin trying to drive them off the job, they just don’t have the time they used to for the promising undergrads. It’s all about herding them through courses with lower and lower standards as they try to avoid driving customers away. And banners about greatness, can’t forget about those.
There are some good LACs that only use FAFSA for determining FinAid. Denison & Earlham are two that I know of, and they are both pretty generous with merit awards for students who aren’t superstars. These things change; this is just to show you that all is not lost.
There are also some, mostly Southern, public U’s that offer generous FinAid and OOS waivers. U New Mexico is another one that is generous to good, but not stratospherically so, OOS students, and offers an Honors College.
EFC calculator came up with about $2800 FAFSA EFC with $40k of income, family of 2. That should at least give about a $3,000 Pell grant. Depending on state, maybe a state grant as well.
Look for Profile,schools that do NOT require the non-custodial parent Profile. They DO exist.
Does your state have ONLY one public university?
Also, you say it’s taken a dive…in what? Rankings? State funding? What makes you say this is such a terrible school that you would not send your kiddo to.
Thanks, alooknac. I hadn’t known about Earlham – she wants badly to get out of the midwest, but that may be a viable option.
mommmdc, I’ve got investment property that’s part of my retirement funding, so the Pell takes a hit – it’ll likely come out around $1K.
thumper1, they exist, but generally they have their own NCP forms that are non-optional. This is the best of our state universities. The rankings themselves aren’t important, just an external (and partial) indication of what’s gone on. I work there and have seen the transformation over the last decade or so. It’s nothing unusual for a state school; this is going on across the country as the states pull back on funding and regents/trustees play financial games. And it’s not a terrible school, but I wouldn’t tell a bright kid to go there if there were other options. Which is a change. Twenty years ago I’d have told that kid he was crazy to go to some expensive LAC instead – it was a very good education for cheap. You have to understand that as the state schools run aground financially, or are hijacked financially, the effort goes into preserving the look of education, rather than into actual education, and the money gets redirected into the stats that keep the Dept of Ed off their backs. Ultimately you wind up with a massive and advanced form of high school grafted to a narrow center-based research institution. Unfortunately, many of the kids (and parents) will never know the difference, because they don’t know anything else. But the difference shows up when the kids have to compete for jobs and strong grad-school placement and don’t make it, and can’t understand why they’re not making it when they’ve been told how great they are all the way through.
Your options are to look at schools that do not require the noncustodial parents financial information for their financial aid assessment. We went to a Vanderbilt session and they said that they don’t consider noncustodial parent info. There are some others. Another option is to look at schools where her stats are way above the school’s CDS stats so that merit becomes a possibility. Good luck.
Yes, going to colleges where you fill an institutional need or add diversity (can include geographical diversity) is a great admissions strategy. For example, there are some great Southern LAC’s that would love a student from up north or west coast. Or a male heavy tech school that would love a female applicant.
Well – admissions isn’t really the issue. Unless she undergoes some radical change, she’ll wind up getting into selective but not top-tier schools. The issue is financial with an uncooperative but high-income NCP. Going way above average stats isn’t really a strategy I’d recommend to anyone: yes, you save some money, but at the cost of wasting four or five years in classes designed for people who can’t do anything like what you can do. You’re also then walking around with that label on you for the rest of your life.
Anybody know about good northeastern/midatlantic schools that don’t rely on NCP info? I hadn’t realized William & Mary was public…they cap their aid for OOS, but I guess it’d be possible for her to take a residency-establishing gap year. I think if it were between that and staying midwest or heading south, she’d take the gap year.
A few good-financial-aid schools do not (or not usually) use NCP information: Chicago, Albright, (usually) Vanderbilt.
Gaining state residency in another state is often difficult (depending on the state’s rules), particularly if the student is still considered “dependent” for FAFSA purposes.
I don’t want to sound mercenary… but you’ve got many years in front of you for your D to patch up her relationship with her Dad. Unless he is an abusive meth addict, the fact that he isn’t willing- right now- to be more generous vis-a-vis her education, doesn’t mean that once she’s a HS senior he’ll come around.
I’d work on that.
I know plenty of non-custodial parents who are still working out their complicated emotions regarding the divorce by stiffing the kids once they get to college- and others, who realize that a talented kid is going to need financial help above and beyond the decree. And if they can afford it- they manage to put their feelings for their ex aside.
Your D has a lot of time to keep her dad part of the college conversation. And of course- just to keep him as part of her life in general.
Don’t count on the residency establishing gap year. Any state which currently allows it is likely to crack down on it in the near future. It is a political cheap shot… costs a state nothing to put out a press release announcing that “We are saving our precious in-state seats for our precious in-state children”
ucbalum: thanks, I guess I’ll have to look further into merit. She’s not getting into Chicago with that kind of background, btw, it’s the swottiest school around (also has a COA around $70K, meaning that even merit aid there isn’t going to come close). Is fine with me, though, is a place where young and tender souls go to die. Unless they’re really, really cut out to be philosophy majors, then they’re probably okay. (If your kid is cut out for sociology or economics there, then you have my deepest sympathies and it wasn’t your fault.)
blossom: her relationship with her dad is fine, apart from her recently having noticed that she’s more mature than he is. He’s just a selfish ass who can’t plan or count to save his life, problems that have made our life difficult for a decade already. His gf’s a cheerful and equally irresponsible person. Too late to do anything about this now except make plans that don’t count on his help, because saving voluntarily is a thing he doesn’t do. The gf has a kid a year younger, and while that kid is a mess, she’ll still have to go to college. Even with nice incomes they won’t have money to pay substantially from current income for both, even with fin aid allowances for two kids in college. You know that mystery of high-income people who’re perpetually broke? Mystery solved with these two.
I think it’s entirely reasonable, btw, for state schools to guard their fin aid for in-state students. That’s part of the mandate of the state university systems, to make college affordable for the states’ students. It’s why they regard outsiders as cash cows, and why they charge international students truly obscene amounts of money. The Canadians do the same thing. The unfortunate thing is that kids who live in states that don’t have effective higher-ed defenders in state govt are pretty screwed. Their local universities are relatively expensive for pretend educations, and going somewhere better is prohibitively expensive.
BelknapPoint: yeah, that was the point. Unfortunately it looks like VA has a two-year residency requirement, which isn’t likely feasible, and they cap OOS aid at 25% of COA, which frankly is generous of VA.
Maybe I’d better make a list of schools that offer decent, as in meaningful, tuition-remission deals to staff dependents, and jobhunt. (By “meaningful” I mean that with the benefit the school becomes affordable. So, for instance, UChicago, which does a 50% benefit, is still too expensive. Rice, which offers full dependent remission, is not.)
Erin’s Dad – yeah, I know, and that’s fine. I wasn’t planning on staying here once she finished high school anyway. My house is rentable and wherever I go next needn’t be a permanent move. But two years between hs and college is too much, and she’d have a difficult last year of hs if she had to live with her dad.
If you don’t live in your home I don’t think it’s considered a primary residence for tuition purposes. The income you earn from rent (and maybe the home’s value) is taken into account when calculating financial aid.
Very similar to our situation. There are some SLACs that don’t count non-custodial but they are few and far between. We went on the merit chase which worked well for us. Schools (nearly all were in the Northeast area) that were not merit but 100% need based ended up with prices $25-35K/year based on income over $150K (not exactly sure what bio Dad’s income is but think our total together was closer to $200K). The high merit schools ranged from $10-$25K/year, the more “safety”, the better merit obviously. D ended up attending what we deemed a low match school and is very happy there. Our state flagship would have cost $18K based on FAFSA only. I would suggest that you start saving as much as possible from this moment on. A 529 is worth looking into and your D should start working and saving as soon as possible if she intends to go to a top tier LAC. A discussion with your ex about the 529 plan might be worth your time as well…at least he can’t claim “ignorance” like my did when the financial award letters started arriving.
@tucketthannock, I don’t think you got my point about admissions strategies. Colleges need to meet institutional needs and are likely to give merit scholarships to kids that fill those needs. For example, I know of one southern LAC that when comparing applicants for a merit academic scholarship geographic diversity is a big plus because they are really pushing to broaden their base/profile. It’s a combination of strategies.
Some of the colleges that do not consider NCP’s profile are very selective- Vanderbilt and UChicago for example and would not really rely on these schools for admissions but depending on her stats could include them in her reach schools. Still it’s better to concentrate time on the matches and safeties.
NEPatsGirl, that sounds very like the situation here, right down to the numbers. Right now $25K looks like the outside of affordability for us. She’s long had a Coverdell and other savings, works and saves herself; my guess is that she’ll have savings of around $30K come freshman year. (I don’t make enough to put anything substantial away, and have to fund retirement first.) Good to hear about the high-merit schools. And yes, there’s been a steady drumbeat of emails (spoken conversations are useless, since he later claims they never happened). There’ll be more, and possibly a forced mediation session: not because I think it’ll change his thinking, but as documentation and a source of quotes for the fin aid officer. On her own, my daughter took him through Wellesley’s myinTuition calculator and showed him the NPC. She’s got the W poster up in her bedroom at his/gf’s place as a not-so-subtle reminder not to blow all the dough.
How heavily did APs and extracurriculars figure into your merit run? Also, how well did the merit award stick after freshman year?
It’s nuts what we go through with these things now…I was actually just thinking about how things might go for her if I did move away for a residency-establishing and/or tuition-remission job her last year of hs, and realizing that at that age I’d already lived on my own for months in a foreign country. I could have friends checking in on her, inviting her over, and I bet actually she’d be fine. But, you know, you go to this kind of lunacy in your head to try to make these things work.
I’m actually sitting here with a pile of old letters from a young friend who’d gone to Prague in the mid-90s; he’d gone to this local flagship, but there were so many more really bright kids here back then. Like I said, the quality of the education was startlingly good for the price. Wonderful long letters full of art and novels and plays as he’s trying to turn himself into a writer and stay fed and housed at the same time. These days you have to swim hard against the tide to help a student like this at my university – always worth it, of course, but sometimes it takes more time and energy than anyone has.