<p>...and what does it mean for Mother Miami?</p>
<p>I ask this because, no matter how much Miami cranks up out of state recruiting, we still compete for students with Ohio State more than any other school out there--probably more than the next five combined.</p>
<p>The Ohio State page has a thread of kids getting rejected (or deferred to branch campuses) with 28 ACT scores. One was even denied with a 30.</p>
<p>As an OOS parent, I wonder if part of this is due to price sensitivity for the in state students. Are more Ohio students applying to OSU due to the lower price than Miami? There was a chart in a recent Miami Student edition showing Miami is the most expensive in-state Ohio univerisity - by a fair margin.</p>
<p>I can only speak about our large suburban Chicago HS. A total of only 2 kids have gone to OSU in the past 5 years combined. At least at our school, if you are not going in-state to UIUC, then Michigan or Wisconsin are the premier Big 10 choices. OSU isn’t a big enough draw for a large volume of students to drive the extra couple of hours.</p>
<p>Miami is big with those OOS kids and parents that don’t want a 40,000 student campus. Our in-state options at the 15,000 +/- size are nowhere near as respected as Miami. Therefore, there is a willingness to spend the money and travel the distance.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. It doesn’t surprise me that few Chicago kids are interested in Ohio State. It would seem their admissions standards are very close to (if not at) the level of U of I or Wisconsin these days. Since any Chicago kid getting into osu is likely to get into Illinois or Wisiconsin, it makes no sense to travel further (and pay oos tuition when compared to Illinois) to a similar (large, research faculty, big ten sports) type of school.</p>
<p>It would certainly seem that Miami’s big push at out of state recruiting is a tacit admission of failing to compete with Ohio State for the top Ohio kids. If a 29 gets you an auto invite into Farmer while a 28 is getting you a rejection at Ohio State, my hunch is that at least a third and maybe a half of Miami’s incoming classes would not get into Ohio State.</p>
<p>It’s naive to suggest that the admissions staff from any school limits their selection process to ACT scores exclusively.</p>
<p>@SnL: Of course not. But standardized test scores are the most objective measurement by which to compare various schools. I have no idea of the gap in class rank stats between Miami and Ohio State, but I bet it would follow the test score gap fairly closely. Given the massive amount of grade inflation at the high school level, gpa–in my opinion–is virtually worthless without being put into a test score/class rank context. My main point is that if Miami’s average ACT score is 27, and kids are getting rejected from Ohio State with a 28 (and I believe he/she said they had a 3.6 at a competitive high school) then we’ve fallen further behind than anyone within Miami is willing to acknowledge.</p>
<p>Another thing that I noticed, is that Miami is apparently paying to have two 24/7 banner ads running on the osu forum. Really? That kind of smacks of desperation.</p>
<p>Desperation? Doubtful. Miami is a jewel. My family is in Indianapolis. My son (2200 SAT) OOS was thrilled to find a school that wasn’t 2500 students, or 30,000+ students, within a reasonable drive from home, where classes would be taught by professors (not grad students)…that also had a top ranked B-School (bonus that you can be accepted to Honors Direct Admit as a freshman!) which his parents could AFFORD!! Double-bonus…Chinese Business curriculum. Triple bonus…a town so geared around the university. The student attracted to OSU is a different student than the student who would be attracted to MU. OSU is a great school. No doubt. The schools are very different. My son had no interest in OSU. Just too big. For another kid, perhaps it is just right. I don’t even necessarily think that the schools are “competing” against one another. These two schools really “feel” very different from one another.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth as a Hoosier, I think it is terrific when state schools are NOT all the same. I am thrilled that our state has a world-class Engineering and Technical school, AND a world class arts/medicine and business school. They don’t attract the same students either. I just wish we had an MU in-state…shrinking IU by a two thirds and tossing out the grad students 
We just didn’t HAVE that option…but Ohio did :)</p>
<p>Both my Ds were accepted into OSU Honors, but decided on and are happy with Miami University. Scholarship money is better for Honors students at Miami than OSU, and although that was an added benefit for our family, that was not my Ds’ deciding factor. </p>
<p>OSU has A LOT of students who transfer in the second year from branch campuses and community colleges who could not have gotten into Miami. There is fairly wide academic range of students at all state universities.</p>
<p>OSU is a great school, but it didn’t have the right feel for my daughters. There are many top students at Miami. It is not second to OSU, just different.</p>
<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/11896373-post5.html]#5[/url]”>quote</a> …Another thing that I noticed, is that Miami is apparently paying to have two 24/7 banner ads running on the osu forum. Really? That kind of smacks of desperation…
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<p>It’s unfortunate that some succumb to [zero-sum</a> fallacies](<a href=“http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Zero-sum_fallacy]zero-sum”>http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Zero-sum_fallacy); as in ‘there’s a limited supply of high-quality education’.</p>
<p>Buttressing debrockman’s and wildwood330’s arguments is the analysis of [Edward</a> Fiske, a former education writer and editor at The New York Times](<a href=“Searching the Bargain Bin for a Premier Public Education - The New York Times”>Searching the Bargain Bin for a Premier Public Education - The New York Times):</p>
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<p>An “elite private university” experience at a state school price in any analysis is a bargain. Add in the [guaranteed</a> merit scholarships](<a href=“http://www.miamialum.org/s/916/internalNL.aspx?sid=916&gid=1&pgid=252&cid=6031&ecid=6031&crid=0&calpgid=339&calcid=5007]guaranteed”>http://www.miamialum.org/s/916/internalNL.aspx?sid=916&gid=1&pgid=252&cid=6031&ecid=6031&crid=0&calpgid=339&calcid=5007) for good incoming scores only makes the deal even better.</p>
<p>Well, obviously someone in the Miami administration views student recruiting against Ohio State as as something of a zero sum game (thanks for the pretentious link, but I know what it means) or we wouldn’t be running the banner ads. </p>
<p>As a Miami alumnus, I love the billboards up in the three Cs and Chicago. I think it’s a great piece of marketing. In comparison, running the banner ads on Ohio State’s forum, just strikes me as coming off as low rent and a little desperate not to mention coming off as quite little brotherish. It’s something that I’d expect OU or Bowling Green to do…not Miami. I don’t think it puts the university in a good light, and I feel that Miami should be above such things.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, if it were Ohio State running the banner ads on the Miami page 24/7 more than a few here would probably, and quite correctly, be mocking them for their obsessive fixation towards Miami.</p>
<p>I am a proud and loyal Miami grad from the mid-80s - attending during the Public Ivy era and when Mother Miami was considered the premier state school in Ohio. Yes, Miami is a jewel an excellent education, beautiful campus, dedicated alumni and an overall quality experience. That said, as the mother of a high school senior who has chosen to attend OSU next Fall, I agree that the Miami administration should be concerned. </p>
<p>Ohio State is now drawing the best and brightest. In the top 10% of my daughters class (in-state), at least five are attending OSU. They have transformed the perception of a large impersonal university, to one that is selective and provides outstanding opportunity for each individual and their goals because of its resources. Miami was my daughters top choice prior to visiting OSU. Then the OSU marketing machine kicked in… In Feb 2010, she received a big brochure, personalized letter and invitation to visit. We booked the visit and that changed everything. The campus has the wow factor. A brand new Student Union, impressive Rec Center and beautiful remodeled library. As the parent footing the bill, I liked seeing where our $$ is going.</p>
<p>The campus is bustling and friendly. Everything that comes out of the FYE (First Year Experience) office is top notch. Following up the visit, there were more letters, personal phone calls to our home and invitations to events such as Scholars Day. It made her feel special and wanted. D attends a very competitive high school and probably in top 20% of class (school does not rank) a 4.3 aw/3.9uw and 28 ACT Not at the top of her class, but OSU liked what they saw and made sure she knew it.</p>
<p>My daughter finally started receiving a ton of mailings and emails, etc., from Miami in the summer and early Fall 2010. But by then it was too late. She had fallen in love with everything OSU had to offer. She applied mid-November and by December 5th, she was a Buckeye.</p>
<p>sleeponit -
Just curious, did your daughter ever have any interest in Miami? Has she ever visited?</p>
<p>"Are more Ohio students applying to OSU due to the lower price than Miami? "</p>
<p>Is OSU price lower than Miami for in-state? For the top kids it is definitely complete opposite. D. has been on full tuition Merit $$ at Miami (about 9-10 Merit awards combined). She got much less at OSU. It was not the reason for her choosing Miami. This schools are so different. In our city, most kids who want to be at OSU, cannot see themselves being at Miami and opposite. But I heard from many very good students that Miami in-state Merit packages are awesome. However, most kids do not decide on that, since both are in-state publics with reasonalbe tuition and most want to be at UG that matches their personality the best.</p>
<p>…do not forget #2 nationally in UG teaching, yes, we are!!! Beat Harvard. </p>
<p>OSU is an awesome Med. School and one of my D’s choices. She loved it during her interview visit and might end up there. Then we can comment on both experiences.</p>
<p>@SnLMom - yes… we visited twice. Our first visit was in the summer of 2006 for my 20 year reunion - D was too young then to have college on her radar, but she did remember how pretty the campus was.</p>
<p>We visited Miami for an ‘official’ college visit in the spring of 2010 with a tour and she met with the dean of the Psychology dept and the dept. of dance. She left there interested, but still curious about OSU. She wanted to reserve her opinion after meeting with the two faculty members at OSU. OSU’s Psychology department is #9 in the US and dance is #2 (she wants to minor), so, for her, it was about where her interests were best suited and furthered. Plus, unlike me, she is more of an extrovert and will thrive on a large campus. I loved Miami for its smaller campus and it felt more like a ‘home’ to me, which was important for the overall experience.</p>
<p>D felt bad when she wanted to go to OSU more than Miami, but I told her not to. Both schools provide an excellent education. It’s all about what is right for our children as individuals… and, for her, OSU is the best fit.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insightful follow-up. Based on the tone of your initial post, I was worried that you felt that Miami’s current status/reputation/offerings were somehow disappointing you. Although I have never visited OSU (we’re OOS), DD is very interested in Miami after our visit there. I can certainly understand how the 2 schools could have a very different feel.</p>
<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/11906696-post11.html]#11[/url]”>quote</a> …Ohio State is now drawing the best and brightest…
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<p>Taking nothing away from OSU, Miami [attracts</a> a very respectable cohort of top students](<a href=“http://www.miami.muohio.edu/admission/admission/high-school/class-profile/index.html]attracts”>Admission and Aid | Miami University). (FWIW, my daughters were in top 1% of their class, recognized several times in state-wide competitions (both sports (went all the way to state finals, set several school records) and the arts) and turned down top private LACs for Miami. They visited OSU and were immediately turned-off by the size.)</p>
<p>As you well know, the [stated</a> philosophy](<a href=“http://www.miami.muohio.edu/about-miami/quick-facts/index.html]stated”>Miami at a Glance | About Miami - Miami University) of the university is undergraduate teaching. </p>
<p>That’s a philosophy that gets translated into day-in-day-out policy and practices and is exactly what many top Ohio (and OOS) students want all at a great value for their parents that often foot the bill.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Stitch. The original post related to Ohio State becoming more selective and, therefore, perhaps a more appealing choice to prospective top students who want to be among their high-achieving peers. OSU’s average ACT score has been increasing each year by approx. one point. Next year it is projected to be a 29. DD specifically said she wanted to be among the high caliber students so she would be challenged. Even with a solid 28 and a 4.3 gpa, she will be ‘average’ at OSU. </p>
<p>I am not taking anything away from Miami. I will always be a proud Miami alum… I just want them to be more competitive and assertive in continuing to attract the best and brightest.</p>
<p>i was just recently rejected by ohio state with a 3.41 and a 28…great public in-state school and lots of ecs/sports/leadership and 5 aps and 11 honors classes… i was told it was because of a low gpa which i thought would be compensated with my rigorous courseload but apparently they dont look at courseload anymore…just gpas. miami is now my top, which i have already gotten admitted too. i know a lot of people who want to go to osu, are rejected, then go to miami. miami is obviously a good school but very different feel from osu</p>
<p>hey foodgud, sorry to hear about your rejection…followed you a bit on OSU forums. My ds sent to Newark…but dd at OSU on full tuition scholarship and says there are a lot of dumb people there not used to rigorous course work, so have to believe grade inflation and lower high school class expectations at fault. She’s made dean’s list all but one quarter there in the honors program and has yet to be truly challenged and struggle in a class. </p>
<p>Hubby and I both Miami grads but couldn’t interest her in anything beyond applying and ds the same…even if he gets accepted doubt he’ll go…said he just didn’t see himself there. He has a 30 ACT but low grades, an 81% cumulative, prob top half in class at most selective school here.</p>