<p>I was thinking about this today... while i understand that many members of the admissions committee are graduates of the schools we are applying for, and are thus probably decently smart... they are also people who couldn't find other jobs, right? I mean, i don't know many people who dream of being a college admissions person. </p>
<p>Maybe this is unfair because it is sometimes an interim job for them, but i was just wondering how we can judge the people who are supposed to be judging how smart we are... </p>
<p>having said all that, i also certainly know of really intelligent admissions people, so i know this cannot be 100% the case (this was inspired by reading a grammar mistake written by an admissions officer... and i couldn't help but wonder...)</p>
<p>that you REALLLLLY need to think about the real world and why people do what they do</p>
<p>and you saw a gasp grammar mistake, well, when you are out there, people who have some control over your life- profs, bosses, parents, will all make little mistakes and if you question their intelligence because of that, you will not be a happy camper</p>
<p>I wouldn't want to be a doctor, but do I disparage doctors? And I wouldn't want to be a sanitation person, but thank god they are there</p>
<p>and I wouldn't want to be a plumber, but, well, they make a fortune</p>
<p>don't judge people based on their jobs, that is just plain snooty</p>
<p>I was reading this article or book (I forget which) by an adcom and they just talked about how they really loved the school and wanted to stay with it... thus... were college admissions workers.</p>
<p>i realize that one grammar mistake does not mean that someone is stupid. i didn't mean to offend anyone. i don't think that being an admissions person is in any way a bad job. however, these adcoms have a very important impact on a number of people's lives, so i think it is also important to think about who they are.</p>
<p>i also completely disagree with you that you can't question people's intelligence. you shouldn't say it to their face, but if you have a stupid professor or boss, you definitely need to figure that out quickly, and make any adjustments necessary. if you have a bad boss you need to make sure that they aren't doing something that is going to mess something up for you. </p>
<p>i'm sorry that you are so defensive about people judging you based on your job. whether it's fair or not, they do.</p>
<p>I work at the admissions office at my school and most of the admissions officers are actually graduate students who are getting awesome deals on their education for being officers. I believe it's actually pretty hard to become one since they all seem to be very charismatic and attractive (good image for the school).</p>
<p>the admissions officers can vary. some of them are alumni from the school... some alumni are from a long time ago, perhaps when the school didn't have a good academic reputation! some though, are recent graduates. though they may not have as much experience reading apps, they at least know the caliber of the overall student population there. </p>
<p>some are graduate students in education, who are probably studying high school counseling or college access. other times, they could be former professors who taught in the Education department. </p>
<p>some are full-time admissions officers. they could or could not be smart, but if they read for a top school, they're most likely well-trained and seasoned and have been reading apps for many years. sometimes, high school counselors may retire and become admissions officers too. </p>
<p>regarding the grammar mistake... i think it was just a mistake. i mean, look at how smart people are on CC! yet i always see a post like "i messed up on my essay or application, am i screwed?" people make mistakes, both minor and major. yes, even smart people and people who have a lot of influence.</p>
<p>Admissions people I have met just seem to love their jobs, in the way that teachers also often love their jobs despite lower pay and lower prestige. The college counselor at DS's school is a former college admissions rep, now working at a small private school. Has kids of her own, loves being counselor, and the kids love her. Teachers at his school don't make loads of money, many have degrees from really prestigious schools (Yale, WIlliams, Oxford, Columbia etc) - I doubt they "couldn't find other jobs".</p>
<p>thanks guys! i didn't mean to infer that they aren't intelligent, i was just wondering how they find them for their jobs.</p>
<p>I didn't know alot of the info above about graduate students, etc. becoming admissions officers, so that definitely changes things. i also completely understand that everyone makes grammar mistakes, including myself. but i also think that if we are judged on every letter, essay, etc. we write to the school, and if we have a grammar mistake on our sat essay, we ARE judged by it. i was simply using the same logic to question the gatekeepers of the most prestigious universities.</p>
<p>Yes, some (maybe 1 to 2 at each school) admissions reps are recent college grads at the school that they attended, but most are college grads who also have graduate degrees (Masters, EDs and PhDs) in counseling, education and higher education. Many admissions directors have also worked in admissions at other schools.</p>
<p>
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but i also think that if we are judged on every letter, essay, etc. we write to the school, and if we have a grammar mistake on our sat essay, we ARE judged by it.
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</p>
<p>At the end of the day consider this;</p>
<p>which one of you is on the down side of this power dynamic?</p>
<p>which one of you has the degree from the school that the other one is trying to get a degree from?</p>
<p>If you are rejected from a school, it won't be from a simple grammatical error but other things in your overall application.</p>
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<p>but i was just wondering how we can judge the people who are supposed to be judging how smart we are... <<</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>To begin with, as far as I can tell admissions officers are as smart and professional as the members of any other college-educated profession. But I always wonder why some people feel the need to even ask the question in the first place. Do you feel that the adcoms are beneath you? Unworthy to judge you?</p>
<p>The assumption seems to be that you can't offer valid opinions about a 4.0 UW/2350 applicant unless you had similar credentials yourself. This is nonsense. Sports writers don't have to be able to shoot and dribble like Michael Jordan before they can write legitimate opinions about NBA stars. Literary critics don't need to have written their own best-seller before they can properly judge a new book. Movie critics don't need to be more talented film artists than Scorsese before they can distinguish good movies from bad. It's just not the way the world works.</p>
<p>The adcoms have their proper role. They are smart professionals trained to the do the job the university has hired them for. If any particular one isn't very good or is ill-suited to the job, the school will get rid of them - just the same as they would get rid of an lousy accountant, janitor, professor, football coach, or college president.</p>
<p>But by the way...in my country.. there are teachers who correct our exam papers and they really do suck!!
Their notion is...."Hey, we didnt score high in our exams and we ended up in sucha low paying job. So why give these nerds high scores. If we didnt get it, so won't they"
That is true and that is why all our Valedictorians score at a GPA of 75-80 GPA (out of 100) when they expect no less than 95-100!</p>
<p>To judge someone on the job they have is, well, arrogant</p>
<p>I would never judge anyone badly who works hard, especially the people that do the jobs others do not want</p>
<p>Take a look at the program on te Discovery Channel about really tough jobs</p>
<p>And, Carpecollege, I agree, you do have to understand your bosses, etc, but you need to rethink about how you judge the workt aht others do</p>
<p>Do you judge the people that clean up after you in a restaraunt, do you judge the people that make your city pretty, do you judge the people that painted your house</p>
<p>My goodness, I am appaled at the high and mighty nature of people hear on CC, as if on;y college grads, or those that get into only the best schools, are worthy or respect</p>
<p>If you even ask the question and judge how people get their jobs, you need to get out into the world</p>
<p>You might want to read "Harvard Schmarvard" by Jay Mathews. The people running the world such as heads of companies, elected leaders, and heads of newspapers are generally not from the very top schools.</p>
<p>It's funny, but in "A Is For Admissions" by Michele Hernandez, she warned ivy-league applicants that the adcoms may not have actually gone to an ivy and so the applicants needed to understand that they were being judged by people who were not as smart as they were. Hernandez practically said to speak slowly in interviews. Hernandez graduated from Dartmouth.</p>
<p>"A is for Admissions" is dated. The other characteristic of the book is that she says that everyone who deserves to get in actually gets in. Her new book is very good.</p>
<p>I think as a group, admissions officers are probably pretty smart. At an elite school they may not be as smart as the group they are admitting. But it doesn't matter! The problem they are solving is not to sort the applicants in order from best to worst. The problem they are solving is to fill up a bunch of differently shaped holes with pegs that fit into the holes. For each hole of a given shape they have several pegs to choose from that fit equally well. It generally doesn't matter which of the pegs they choose for each hole as long as it fits. You can call it "more art than science," but I think the process could be largely automated.</p>
<p>hmm.. I know a former admissions councellor at swarthmore. he was smart enough to get into harvard and a whole bunch of other great schools (tho he turned it down and went to swarthmore instead) and managed to make "who wants to be a millionaire". he's now a high school councellor and a member of the national high school councellors association, or something like that.. so there are deffinitely smart adcoms out there.</p>
<p>Swarthmore is the #3 LAC in the US, and some people want to attend LAC's instead of universities. I don't know why there hasn't been much on CC about LAC's lately.</p>