This discussion was created from comments split from: Five FREE Ways to Train Before Going to College….
I would like to pose a question to @BroadwayVeteran in a public venue since I think many of use would like some guidance in this area. Don’t want to start a new thread for it, but if moderators think it belongs in its own then please move it for me. What is your opinion on how soon our kids should get their equity or SAG cards? Some advice I have seen is that they should wait and others say get it quickly.
@bisouu I know this was directed specifically to Broadway Veteran but I thought I would share what my older D’s agent had suggested. My D is a pro dancer & is signed in NY & LA, her agent and other peers & professionals have all advised waiting to join the unions. Although joining would open many more auditions that are equity/sag only, unless you have some body of work & are known a bit, although you will get in to the auditions it will still be difficult to be cast.
Also once in the union you can not audition as non-eq which closes the smaller jobs/tours that you would gain a lot of learning and growing from. Not to mention networking and getting known for your work.
I am interested to see what others have to say but I hope this helps.
This helped greatly. Very clear explanation. I very much appreciate you taking the time to share this information.
@bisouu & @BroadwayVeteran you are correct they earn points/weeks toward equity with each eq job as a non-eq. Of course after working that much and earning that many points you would join. What I was referring to by saying wait, was that you could also pay your way into the union right away without putting in the time and gaining the job experience. Many young artists ask this question to join right away or not so as to gain access to eq jobs, so that is what I was referring to that most professionals would advise No do not pay your way in, work your way in.
Also the reality is , it is quite hard to get an eq job as non-eq.My D goes to auditions that are eq only, either right away the director will come out and say sorry not seeing non-eq today or she has to sit for up to 8 hours until they will see non-eq. She has worked eq as non-eq but it is hard to get.
@joyfulmama so do I understand you correctly that my daughter can purchase her equity card? How much are they?
It is my understanding you CAN NOT purchase an equity card. You earn equity points or can get your card out right if performing at certain venues.
There are some pay-for-play internships (Weathervane in NH is one) where you pay to be an intern so that you can earn points (but not the whole card, I don’t think, maybe 20 points?). We know a boy who got cast in a broadway show and immediately got his card, then the show closed after about a month, and now he’s equity but without much of a resume…a tough situtation.
So @broadwayveteran you do not recommend opportunities like NTI or Williamstown which require tuition? I know Williamstown offers EMC points, idk about NTI
I have to weigh in here. @BroadwayVeteran, you can, indeed, buy your way into a union. You can buy a membership into AGMA, and after a year, that gives you AEA rights. Virtually everyone recommends AGAINST doing this. It’s not a good idea. But people do it. All the time.
And, I also disagree with the “never pay to perform.” With all due respect, you went to school decades ago, and things have changed substantially. It is far more competitive, much harder to get summer stock jobs and EMC points, harder to do EVERYTHING, simply b/c there are so many more kids out there competing for the same jobs. There are many, many, “pay to play” places with great reputations: Berkshire, Barrington, Williamstown, and Powerhouse, to name a few. There are others in CA that I am less familiar with. My D did Berkshire this summer. We paid for the privilege (although she had to audition, of course, and admission was competitive). Not only did she perform on stage with Kate Baldwin and 11 other equity actors, but she is now EMC. Did she pay for these points? No. She worked her butt off for those points. She paid for her housing, and she paid for countless master classes with Broadway choreographers, directors, and actors. She has made incredible contacts, has great new credits on her resume, and got invaluable advice from actors who are on Broadway, national tours, etc. And, they all told her, don’t get your card too soon. Once you get your card, you have to compete with all those equity kids, and the non-eq jobs are no longer available to you. If you get some strong credits on your resume (e.g., Goodspeed, Papermill, Muny, etc.), THEN join the union. Before that…nope. Don’t do it. B/c you are less likely to get a union job with no credits on your resume. And guess what? Of the equity people my D is working with this summer, more than half did “pay to play” to get started at these reputable places. So…not sure where the “never pay to perform” comes from, but I think it is a sweeping generalization that needs to be qualified quite a bit. And I’m not sure it’s valid at all these days.
There are many threads about when to get your equity card. My personal opinion (based on advice my D has rec’d, family members who are union, and seeing what my D’s friends are going through) is this: when you have good credits on your resume, credits that will make a CD say, “Oh! They worked THERE,” AND you feel ready to compete, then get your card. Before that time…don’t. It’s pretty simple.
But everyone is different, and there may be people who have no credits on their resume, get their card right out of school through a TheatreWorks tour or something similar and then go straight to Broadway. But I think that’s the exception, not the rule, and many more of them regret getting their cards too quickly. Do what is best for you. Pay to play at a reputable place is fine, and it’s not always best to get your card as soon as you can. It’s a case by case basis. No one can tell you what to do b/c you’re unique, and everyone is following their own path. If you’re ready to give up all non-eq work, and you think you can make a living on equity stuff only, go for it.
Good luck to all.
Thank you @monkey13 I guess I was not as clear in my post but Ditto to all you have said. Once you are actually working in the field it all becomes much clearer. And easier not to rush to a union.
I agree that it is quite an individualized decision and not a one size fits all. There are pros/cons to get the Equity card early and same with staying non-Equity and getting it later.
My daughter got her Equity card with the first professional show she was cast in immediately following her BFA graduation (the audition was the day after). She also was only 20 years old. It was with TheaterworksUSA…a two month national tour. She never looked back. That doesn’t make her choice better or worse than another and is an example of one.
I forgot to say that with via an agent submitted audition (got an agent after showcase) and she has not attended any non-Equity or Equity open calls…just agent submitted audition appointments.
@BroadwayVeteran I don’t know if this is the case at many schools, but my institution has a scholarship program that provides grants to students who wouldn’t otherwise afford to be able to take unpaid internships.
It is expensive (Powerhouse is $5000) and another reason that middle class and lower income kids are at a disadvantage in this process.
My son has had two badly paid summer gigs, one with points one without, and has worked as close as possible to full time elsewhere, as his schedule permits, to make living expenses. It’s good practice for later I guess. (I still send him summer rent money, but he doesn’t need it as bad as he used to.)
Again, the current reality is it is difficult to get jobs with so much competition out there. My D has done many industry jobs that are free or pay little just to gain experience or to network. It’s a personal choice as to taking the free gig over extra hours at a day job.She does a great job of fitting it all in. Take into account the continued training time, gym time, yoga, voice lessons, dance classes, etc…The training and auditioning and body conditioning is a job in itself.
BTW, all of these pay to play places offer scholarships to those with financial need, particularly for boys. So no one should rule it out.
There are certain pay to play places I certainly wouldn’t recommend. I know a girl who moved out to NYC and started paying to be in a handful of cabarets (not any with reputable names or where she’d be singing alongside some known talent, either). That, to me, isn’t worth it. The other paid internships that were mentioned are a whole separate story and could be a great opportunity. As with everything else, there’s really no hard and fast rule.
Same with going Equity. I know a guy who graduated from CMU a couple of years ago who told me early on that he had a goal for himself to get his Equity card AND land a Broadway gig before he graduated. He joined AEA the summer after freshman year through Pittsburgh CLO and had multiple Broadway and national tour offers at the end of his senior year. He took a great gig and has continued to perform in lead Broadway roles without interruption. That’s kind of the unicorn story, though. I know another girl who was offered an Equity stage manager contract (SMs have the same union, and the same rules apply regardless of which ‘hat’ they’re wearing, just in case you weren’t aware), and she had a really hard time taking the contract because she hadn’t even accrued points and she ran a non-Equity professional theatre, so it was more problematic. She took the contract and has gained loads of experience from it (not to mention she’s getting paid well to do theatre, so that’s always a plus), but I think she still struggles with it. I have friends who swear up and down you should join; I have friends who swear up and down you shouldn’t.
Ultimately, if a kid understands themselves, their capabilities, and their goals, they should be able to understand what path may work best for them.
You’ve used the word “childish” several times in the last couple posts - I would like to point out that my D is still kind of a “child”. She’s 19. She’s a college kid- isn’t there still time for other learning and growth opportunities beyond “getting a job”? What is true for someone after a decade out of school is not necessarily true for someone who just finished their freshman year… I find your conclusions above, while certainly valid, very restrictive. Not that my opinion matters, and I am certain you have a much larger field of knowledge to draw on than I do. Or maybe it’s just that I have a “grey area” mentality, and I tend to reject statements that seem to have an always/never manner to them.
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I think before criticizing so called pay to play programs you should research what they offer. There are many that are high quality training grounds. Students not only get to perform in shows alongside equity actors, they also get to participate in master classes, workshops and other training sessions. In fact the training is the larger portion of their time. So it is much like paying for any other class or training program you might take. The added benefit of getting to be in quality productions with professional actors and directors is just one of the reasons people choose to participate in these programs. They also make wonderful connections with actors, directors and other professionals they meet while there. The programs I’m aware of that offer EMC credit all require an audition and that audition process is highly selective. So you can’t just say you are willing to pay and expect to get a spot in one of these programs. Some of these programs have upwards of 1000 people audition each year. All that to say, if you are fortunate to be selected after the audition process and you choose to go, you are paying for great training. Getting to earn some EMC points by being in a show is an added benefit and one you earned by being chosen or cast from a pool of many applicants.