How strong is this application profile for Ivies and lower top schools?

Applying to College
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<p>Objective:[ul]
[<em>] SAT I (breakdown): 2120 (March 2012, first sitting, junior: 620CR, 700M, 800W 11E)
[</em>] ACT: 34 (April 2012, second sitting, junior: 34E, 34M, 33R, 36S, 9E)
[<em>] SAT II: Oh God... 590 Literature, 720 Math Level 1, 650 Bio M, 720 Bio E, 700 US History. Obviously, I won't submit some of these.
[</em>] Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
[<em>] Weighted GPA: About 105.976, from last semester (junior year, 2nd semester)
[</em>] Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 1/535
[<em>] AP (place score in parenthesis): AP Human Geography (4), AP World History (4), AP U.S. History (PENDING - 5?), AP Biology (PENDING - 5?), AP English Language and Composition (PENDING - 4/5?)
[</em>] IB (place score in parenthesis): none.
[<em>] Senior Year Course Load: Band 3, AP English Literature and Composition, AP Calculus AB, AP Environmental Science, AP U.S. Government and Politics (1st semester)/AP Microeconomics (2nd semester), AP Music Theory, Pre-AP Physics 1.
[</em>] Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): One of the lower National Merits, Outstanding Soloist at district solo & ensemble, 1st place in Water Quality at NM State SciOly, 4th place in Protein Modeling at NM State SciOly
[/ul]Subjective:[ul]
[<em>] Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): Science Olympiad (see aforementioned awards), Student Council (10th - Secretary; 11th Parliamentarian/PR Representative; recently elected as District Student Council President!), Program Crew (aforementioned summer volunteer job), Band (10th - 3rd chair alto sax at district, 1st chair tenor sax at NMSU Southwest Honor Band II; 11th - Drum Major, 2nd chair alto sax at district, 1st chair baritone saxophone at all-state (yay!), 2nd chair tenor sax at NMSU Southwest Honor Band I; 12th - will be Head Drum Major in the upcoming year; 10th - 12th: Pep Band + Marching Band + Symphonic Band), National Honor Society (running for President currently), Theatre (did Guys & Dolls as a sophomore), Pit Orchestra (played saxophone in pit orchestra for "Annie Get Your Gun")
[</em>] Job/Work Experience: Will be working at a church camp for all of June as a volunteer crew member.
[<em>] Volunteer/Community service: The aforementioned job is volunteer, and will award over 500 hours of community service, methinks, if counted as cumulative from start to finish.
[</em>] Summer Activities: SMA Church Camp, SMA Music Camp, high school band camp, TTUBOC Drum Major Camp, TCU Saxophone Workshop</p>

<p>[/ul]Other[ul]
[<em>] State (if domestic applicant): New Mexico (BIG HOOK)
[</em>] School Type: mid-large, non-competitive public. ~2200 from 9th - 12th, with about a 65% graduation rate.
[<em>] Ethnicity: White
[</em>] Gender: Male
[<em>] Income Bracket: > $200K
[</em>] Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): From New Mexico, which sends few to the Ivies and other top schools.
[<em>] Strengths: ACT score, extracurriculars.
[</em>] Weaknesses: Living in a small town in NM, I don't have access to internships or Ivy summer programs, so those are absent. Also, maybe SAT score? Subject Test Scores.
[/ul]</p>

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<p>I'm a junior currently who has set his sights for the Ivies and lower top schools (Vandy, Berkeley, Notre Dame, etc.). I get very intimidated when I see other applications with extensive interships, summer programs, and even independent teaching and research that I simply do not have access to in my small NM town. I know that coming from New Mexico is a big hook, but I need to make sure the rest of my application is strong. I already have my recommendation teachers picked out, and I expect they will write FANTASTIC letters, as will my counselor. I'm also a very good writer, and should have strong essays.</p>

<p>PLEASE, PLEASE review and give feedback. Not sure whether to retake SAT, as I know that if it gets so high, it might actually lower my chances at some schools due to their "fixing" of the accepted:admitted ratio by admitting the students that are just under perfect. Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>Luckily for you, these are entirely unnecessary :). Your use of your summer is just as good, if not better.</p>

<p>Your ACT is already stronger than your SAT, so I wouldn’t bother with retaking it. You could probably send just your ACT and skip the SAT, sending subject tests only where required with the ACT.</p>

<p>Overall, I think your application is strong. At this point, the best thing to do is to just keep up the good work from an academic perspective. Focus on your most important ECs in terms of leadership to enhance those, but they look like they’re in good shape already.</p>

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<p>Thanks! So you would recommend not retaking SAT and just sending my ACT? I was considering this, as I’ve seen some get in with just a 34, with and without Subject Tests. However, with that score, the essay is only a 9, and I feel like my 11 essay on my SAT shows something. Or do college admissions even care about that? If not, by all means will I not send that SAT score.</p>

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<p>“as I know that if it gets so high, it might actually lower my chances at some schools due to their “fixing” of the accepted:admitted ratio by admitting the students that are just under perfect.”</p>

<p>WHAT?? where on earth did you get this BS idea? I’ve been on CC for 8 years and have never heard of this. someone is pulling your leg, believe me.
you SHOULD retake your SATs in Sept, after studying and taking LOTS of practice tests this summer. Buy the Collegeboard’s SAT prep book[ forget the others as they are not worth the $$$] It has dozens of real SAT tests. With practice, practice, practice and LOTS of real reading[ and I dont mean reading snipits of news online- get a bunch of books and newspapers and read them cover to cover all summer long] -your CR and Math scores will go up!</p>

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<p>I agree that that paragraph is simply bogus. However, I don’t see a point in retaking the SAT since your ACT is already so high. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t think being from New Mexico is THAT much of a hook.</p>

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<p>The writing portion is pointless. It’s not reflective of your ability to write college-level papers successfully, nor is the writing even remotely academic. Most schools are still collecting data as to whether it’s of any use and don’t actually include it in the admissions decision. Those that do consider it don’t give it much credence. I give it a few years before it’s scrapped.</p>

<p>I did extremely well in admissions with an 8 on the ACT Writing.</p>

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<p>There are a handful of schools that have been accused of engaging in yield protection for years. I believe it’s generally referred to as Tufts Syndrome, as Tufts is a notable example. The common thinking on the matter is that these schools reject overqualified applicants because they’re less likely to accept the offer.</p>

<p>(Edit: That said, the higher the better for standardized tests (which means ACT over SAT if ACT is better and vice versa). If one of those schools is your first choice, ED it. If not, higher scores will help at tougher schools that are higher on your list.)</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>OP has a strong ACT score already. There is little benefit to improving an SAT score as well. It’s better to just skip the SAT, thus saving time and money, especially considering OP’s SAT IIs aren’t stellar.</p></li>
<li><p>The marginal benefit of studying for the SAT decreases as your score increases. OP is at a point where additional studying is unlikely to be very helpful.</p></li>
<li><p>Spending money on prep books for a test the OP doesn’t even need to retake is a huge waste.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Stats-wise you’re fine for any school, but I think your ECs are a little… generic because science and band are extremely common activities. Just based on your stats and ECs, I’d say the Ivies are reaches for you, and the “lower” top schools are low reaches. Essays are HUGE though, so the quality of yours will really make the difference in the end.</p>

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<p>The OPs Critical reading and math scores on both the ACT and the SAT could be improved. 700 SAT math is not a strong score and he took the math subject level 1, which is not hard test. Most applicants to Ivys take the math II subject test. thats why he need to improve both math and CR scores, other wise he will be wasting his time applying to tip top schools that reject 90% of applicants. NM is not a hook at all, so dont think it will give you any kind of advantage. It wont.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>While you may be required to send all scores for the test you choose, you aren’t required to send any SAT scores if you send ACT scores even if you’ve taken the SAT. I didn’t send mine.</p></li>
<li><p>If a school doesn’t have many other applicants from your state, you are at a slight advantage. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a hook, but it is an advantage. Most schools want to be able to say their student body is geographically diverse, and having students from all 50 states is a nice selling point.</p></li>
<li><p>Please cite evidence that a 33 on the ACT’s reading section is below Ivy levels. Consider also that even a 25th percentile score means that 25 percent of admitted students had that score or a lower score. That’s a lot of students, especially since OP’s other stats are strong. And I doubt a 33 is a problem at all.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>@menloparkmom It’s actually quite an interesting theory in the world of college admissions. If you’ll look at that RD decision threads for the Ivy League schools, you’ll notice that some of the golden 36/2400 kids get immediately rejected, despite internships, awards, extracurriculars, and national competitions. Why? It’s actually interesting. What college wants to accept a bunch of kids for high test scores, only for a few to actually go to their institution because they got accepted to all the other Ivies for the same reason? It makes for a bad ratio that reflects badly upon the school. </p>

<p>So, the Ivies have come up with a solution for this. Sure, they admit some top applicants with great test scores, just as they logically should. However, the “perfect” applicants with a 2400/36/cured cancer/traveled to the Moon at the age of 2 for research/7,000 hours of community service actually get immediately rejected, as the school knows that the chance that the applicant will choose their school over some other Ivies is low, and they are almost guaranteeing themselves lowering of their admittance ratio. Rather, the students that are slightly under students get in–with maybe a 34/2250, or with 3.85 GPA instead of a 4.0. The Ivies know that each Ivy League school has a different “bar” that it sets for their admissions, and thus a particular Ivy League school admitting students with slightly lower statistics that will be far more likely to attend than the aforementioned top kids helps to keep their admittance rate high.</p>

<p>I will admit that this is actually quite strange, but I’ve find that it’s actually quite supported. Check the threads for the RD decisions for Brown and Princeton in recent years, for example. I will admit that Harvard is a little more confident in high test scoring students, but that’s likely because Harvard has built up a reputation of being the highest Ivy in terms of prestige.</p>

<p>I would like to not diverge the conversation into how college admissions works, especially this is just a theory that I subscribe to. If you want to discuss this further, I would be happy to discuss this with you over private messaging. However, I created this forum to review my application profile, and I would greatly appreciate if you would recognize this. Grazi.</p>

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<p>…2400s have a significantly higher acceptance rate at the Ivy Leagues than the average.</p>

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<p>^
Yep. They still get rejected quite frequently, but that’s because everyone gets rejected quite frequently and they get rejected less frequently, but still frequently.</p>

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<p>“36/2400 kids get immediately rejected, despite internships, awards, extracurriculars, and national competitions. Why?”
Because IVY admissions, unlike admissions at colleges like CalTech for instance, are
holistic and the admissions offices strive to put together a class composed of many different kinds of students with many different talents and abilities[ think athletic recruits, musicians, writers, math wizzes, etc] backgrounds[ think local Profs kids, URMs, DA’s, pell grant kids, kids that need lots of FA, international applicants] etc, etc.
In other words- Ivys DONT just take the kids with the highest scores. Ivy Admissions are NOT determined by stats alone, or even stats first. there are multiple factors for each admissions decision and at the Ivy level, the Ad coms have so many qualified students to choose from they look for reasons to NOT accept students, as a way to cut down the number of applicants to the ones they REALLY want to admit.</p>

<p>“especially this is just a theory that I subscribe to.”
It is a bogus theory, sorry. the reality is far more complicated.</p>

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<p>Okay then, I respect your perspective, and I hope we can just agree to disagree. I think we’ve both made interesting points with supported trends from Ivy admissions in the last few years. However, I again ask that you will allow for this forum thread to serve its original purpose instead of diverging into a complete red herring. If you want to discuss this in further detail, please PM me. Otherwise, I ask that you will respect that I took the time out of my night to make this thread for review of my profile from the CC community–not to be criticized for an observation of recent college admissions.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>When you propose something that bogus, it’s pretty hard for people to just ignore it. There are people admitted to every ivy, people admitted to one ivy, and people admitted to a few because ivy admissions are so incredibly competitive that they’re almost random. I certainly wouldn’t recommend dumbing down your profile in an attempt to be admitted (???). For what it’s worth, your “theory” has been statistically disproven.</p>

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<p>jordan, all I’m saying is I have also been an observer of college admissions - for 8 years. In addition, my DS was accepted at 2 Ivy’s, and 13 other colleges in the top 20. And his scores were lots higher than yours. And his EC’s were really strong and unusual. And that was 6 years ago. He went to USC on a full tuition scholarship and is now at Cal Tech doing his PhD. So I do have a really good idea as to how admissions works and it is not formulaic.
There are many, many factors -most which are completely out of the control of students- that determine who gets the golden ring. </p>

<p>You would be wise to try and bump up your math and CR scores . You will have a better "chance’ with higher scores, all other factors being equal. Make it harder for admissions reps to say “no” to you. It should not be hard to do.</p>

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<p>I’m better at ACT than SAT, and I already prepped with the entire Blue Book–one practice exam, and read/annotated the entire review section. I think I would rather just send in a 34 if that’s all they need. Congratulations on your son; however, college admissions have become increasingly more difficult each year, and it’s no longer about as simple as having high scores and a lot of EC’s. </p>

<p>Is it too late to acquire unique EC’s now? And what would all of you define as “unique” in the sense of EC’s?</p>

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<p>If you know so much about college that you discount everything we tell you, why have you bothered with a chance tread? Apparently you know everything.</p>

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<p>@alwaysleah , I’m trying to ponder through others’ advice as well as my own observations. I do not mean to discredit everyone’s advice, and I do appreciate it. Chance threads tend to go unreplied, and thus I put it here.</p>

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<p>A few things, Jordan.</p>

<p>Being from New Mexico isn’t a big hook. It is a minor tip at best.</p>

<p>While a few schools reportedly reject high stat applicants for yield protection reasons, the reality of higher scores outperforming lower scores is so pervasive that intentionally holding back would be counterproductive.</p>

<p>College admissions isn’t more competitive now than it was a few years ago; actually the number of applicants peaked a couple of years ago, so it would follow that things are actually getting a little less competitive. Of course it’s more complicated than that, with more schools using the common app, more kids applying to more schools, H and P going to SCEA, etc., but I think you should think twice before telling an experienced parent who’s “been there, done that” how much you know rather than graciously accepting advice.</p>