How to Build a College Application List

<p>A parent who was looking for colleges with pretty predictable chances of admission asked elsewhere in cyberspace about colleges that mostly consider test scores, or possibly just test scores and grades, without considering a lot of extracurricular activities. That got me thinking about how my son has gradually begun to put a college application list together, and how a different family might put one together. </p>

<p>To respond to the parent’s question, to find reasonably decent colleges for which admission may be based mostly on test scores, or at worst test scores plus grades/class rank, first look at my List of “Outstanding” or “Noteworthy” Colleges</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/437362-still-looking-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/437362-still-looking-college.html</a> </p>

<p>and then exclude most of the colleges that use the Common Application,</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Members.aspx[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Members.aspx</a> </p>

<p>all of which pledge to "Consider subjective criteria in the admission process, including requiring ALL the following:</p>

<li>An untimed essay of at least 250 words or an untimed graded paper;</li>
<li>A recommendation form from a school-based counselor and/or teacher that allows the recommender to make substantive written comments on the form or in an attached letter;</li>
<li>Information allowing you to select a diverse student body."</li>
</ol>

<p>That would zero in on colleges (they will mostly be state universities) that make admission decisions based mostly on test scores, perhaps, or more likely test scores and grades.</p>

<p>That said, I wouldn’t build a college application list that way.</p>

<p>Here’s how my son and I, talking back and forth over the last few years, have developed successive drafts of his application list. He has attended quite a few [regional</a> information sessions](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/389153-where-students-can-meet-college-admission-officers.html]regional”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/389153-where-students-can-meet-college-admission-officers.html) for different colleges that visit our town jointly or individually to recruit students. Among those, some have caught his interest more than others. Almost all the colleges that have the recruiting budget to do that much travel are highly selective, well endowed colleges with need-blind admission policies and a guarantee of meeting full financial need (important to us, although some of those colleges still “meet need” with loans–boo! hiss!). Here and in various places online I have asked about colleges that have strong programs in my son’s current areas of interest. One thing I do to get a reality check on colleges is look up syllabuses for specific first-year courses my son might take if he enrolled at that college. Colleges vary quite a lot in how they present the “same” course. They also vary a lot in how many extracurricular activities they have related to my son’s interests. </p>

<p>EVERY college application list should be built from a “safety” college on up. I have defined a safety college as one that</p>

<p>1) is pretty much certain to admit the applicant, based on its known behavior in acting on admission applications,</p>

<p>2) has a strong program in an area the applicant is interested in,</p>

<p>3) is affordable based on its known behavior in acting on financial aid applications,</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>4) is likeable to the applicant.</p>

<p>We are fortunate that our state flagship university fits the definition of a “safety” college for our oldest, being an essentially sure bet for admission, strong in my son’s interest areas, affordable, and fitting to his tastes. Each family may choose a different “safety” college, but always that is the first college to put on an application list.</p>

<p>Once the safety college was determined, my son then considered other colleges whose road shows he has visited. He has had two favorites for more than three years now, one selected because of its cool road show (and some other good reasons) and the other selected DESPITE its really boring road show the first time we saw it. Both of those colleges are “reaches” in terms of admission probability, as they are hard colleges to get into even for the best prepared students. Both ought to be affordable if what they say about their financial aid is to be believed. Both practice “holistic” admission–one uses the Common Application, and one uses its own in-house application, but they agree in explicitly considering a lot of other factors besides test scores. Most of the other colleges my son expects to apply to now use the Common Application–one that formerly didn’t will begin accepting it next year–and even a college of interest famous for its hard-core reliance on grades and scores claims to consider issues other than scores and grades, although it certainly looks a lot more “by the numbers” than any other Common Application college.</p>

<p>Another issue to consider when applying to colleges is the order in which to apply. Right now (mid-winter 2008), many families are in suspense, waiting for news about regular decision applications that were submitted at the turn of the year. The National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC) discourages colleges from accepting applications before 1 October of a student’s last year of high school, but our state flagship university wastes no time in accepting applications right after that date. Indeed, State U offers “on-the-spot” admission evaluation to students who were previously enrolled in dual-enrollment or accelerated secondary math program classes, and the base admission rate of such students is 97 percent. We’ll eagerly await admission news from that college in October 2009. Then the fun begins. Some colleges are similar to State U in offering a “rolling” admission cycle, which means the earlier you submit your application, the earlier you get news about the result. Other colleges offer an “early action” round, with an application deadline of 1 November and a notification to the student by 15 December of the result–admit, defer to regular round, or deny. Most highly selective colleges offer a regular decision round that may have a deadline as early as November (various state universities) or at the turn of the year (the great majority of private universities). By NACAC rules, notification of regular decision results (admit, wait list, deny) has to come by 1 April, so the student can reply by the national reply date of 1 May if the student receives more than one offer of admission.</p>

<p>This timing builds a contingency into my son’s application list. He will apply to State U at earliest opportunity. If he is admitted to State U, he need not look for any more “safety” colleges. (If one has planned right from the beginning in defining a “safety” college, it should be sure-bet safe, and then one only needs one “safety.”) Then he will apply in fall 2009 to whatever subset of his colleges of interest that have NONBINDING early action admission programs. He’ll have to have those applications in by 1 November 2009. He’ll get news about those colleges by 15 December 2009. If he is admitted to NONE of those colleges, then it’s back to the drawing board for an expansion of the application list in the regular round. If he is admitted to one or more of the early action colleges, at least one college will drop off his regular round application list. (That college, as of today, has a binding early decision round but no early action round.) Certain colleges of interest have switched this year or may switch next year to a single-deadline admission system in which all applications are received and acted on in the regular round. (Harvard and Princeton operated that way this year, for the first time, as did the U of Virginia.) If those colleges are on my son’s list, he will apply to them knowing results from other colleges already. He’ll make the call about where to apply as results come in and he needs either to expand or to contract his application list.</p>

<p>I’ll paste in a NACAC quotation about admission cycle terminology below. To sum up, I think a well prepared high school student can get into a good college</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/437362-still-looking-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/437362-still-looking-college.html</a> </p>

<p>and some, with careful planning and steady preparation, have a nontrivial shot at getting into the most selective colleges around. I don’t worry overmuch about what particular admission criteria a college claims to have. My son has his own schedule of activities and household chores, which he pursues because of his interests or our family needs, and not to build “hooks” for college admission. My friendly advice, which any reader of this is free to disregard, is to apply widely. Apply to any college of interest. (I agree that there is no reason to apply to a college unless your child might like to attend it, but there is no reason NOT to apply to a college unless attending it is absolutely repugnant to your child.) After applying, compare offers of admission and offers of financial aid to see what makes sense for your family. You always have until 1 May of each year to decide where to attend. </p>

<p>NACAC descriptions of admission programs:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nacacnet.org/NR/rdonlyres/9A4F9961-8991-455D-89B4-AE3B9AF2EFE8/0/SPGP.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nacacnet.org/NR/rdonlyres/9A4F9961-8991-455D-89B4-AE3B9AF2EFE8/0/SPGP.pdf</a> </p>

<p>Non-Restrictive Application Plans: All of these plans allow students to wait until May 1 to confirm enrollment.</p>

<p>• Regular Decision is the application process in which a student submits an application to an institution by a specified date and receives a decision within a reasonable and clearly stated period of time. A student may apply to other institutions without restriction.</p>

<p>• Rolling Admission is the application process in which an institution reviews applications as they are completed and renders admission decisions to students throughout the admission cycle. A student may apply to other institutions without restriction.</p>

<p>• Early Action (EA) is the application process in which students apply to an Statement of Principles of Good Practice Interpretations of Mandatory Practices institution of preference and receive a decision well in advance of the institution’s regular response date. Students who are admitted under Early Action are not obligated to accept the institution’s offer of admission or to submit a deposit prior to May 1. Under non-restrictive Early Action, a student may apply to other colleges.</p>

<p>Restrictive Application Plans: These are plans that allow institutions to limit students from applying to other early plans.</p>

<p>• Early Decision (ED) is the application process in which students make a commitment to a first-choice institution where, if admitted, they definitely will enroll. While pursuing admission under an Early Decision plan, students may apply to other institutions, but may have only one Early Decision application pending at any time. Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment. The institution must notify the applicant of the decision within a reasonable and clearly stated period of time after the Early Decision deadline. Usually, a nonrefundable deposit must be made well in advance of May 1. The institution will respond to an application for financial aid at or near the time of an offer of admission.</p>

<p>Institutions with Early Decision plans may restrict students from applying to other early plans. Institutions will clearly articulate their specific policies in their Early Decision agreement.</p>

<p>• Restrictive Early Action (REA) is the application process in which students make application to an institution of preference and receive a decision well in advance of the institution’s regular response date. Institutions with Restrictive Early Action plans place restrictions on student applications to other early plans. Institutions will clearly articulate these restrictions in their Early Action policies and agreements with students. Students who are admitted under Restrictive Early Action are not obligated to accept the institution’s offer of admission or to submit a deposit prior to May 1.</p>

<p>US News Best Colleges is a good place to start.</p>

<p>Find schools that are reach/match/safety based on SAT score ranges.
If your SATs are between the 25th and 75th percentile, then the school is a potential match. If your SATs are below the 25th percentile but within say 50-75 points of the 25th percentile, then that school is a potential reasonable reach. If your SATs are above the 75th percentile, but within say 50-75 ponts of the 75th percentile then that school is a potential reasonable safety.</p>

<p>Be wary of schools that do not require SATs or ACTs for admissions.</p>

<p>Then rule out schools that don’t offer your major or probable major. If you are unsure of your major, rule out schools with narrow options. Websites and college guides can help with this.</p>

<p>Depending on how strongly you feel about the following, you can narrow down or prioritize your list based on:</p>

<p>distance from home
public vs private (cost)
size/university vs LAC
urban vs suburban vs small town vs rural
neighborhood
prestige/reputation of school, faculty, students
curriculum mix (e.g. Tech schools, Arts and Sciences schools, professional schools)
undergrad opportunities
undergrad resources
demographic mix of student body
campus “culture” or “atmosphere”</p>

<p>Narrow down by studying online catalogs, visiting, attending local information sessions. Don’t place too much emphasis on the visit because it might not accurately convey the school experience. Don’t place too much confidence in what a few random people say about the school. Trust the statistics and hard evidence but consider the anecdotal and intangible. </p>

<p>Pay attention to how the school makes you “feel”. Would you be disappointed if you wound up going there?</p>

<p>The final list should have about 10-15 schools, 5-7 reaches, 3-5 matches, 2-3safeties.</p>

<p>We (DD and I) did it kind of backwards. After looking through US news (back of the issue, not the rankings) selected schools where her SAT/ACT scores were at the high end or above the 25/75, and then looked at other criteria (size, location - this was easy as there were only 2 states she would consider). After narrowed down school list looked at merit scholarships offered as these would be necessary for attendance. Picked the schools, visited, applied and she ended up getting accepted to all with great scholarships, grants, work study and other aid (including loans - not so great but also necessary). THEN went back (for grins) to see which college search sites matched her results. Only one - Princeton Review - hit all of the schools. Some were so bad they gave results in areas not even considered. What I especially like about PR is that after they assign schools into the safety-reach-match categories, they let you see why you that school is listed. One of the options is to match schools with your ACT/SAT score. PR isn’t perfect, but like I said, it did give us the closest match to our original list.</p>

<p>I believe that 15 schools is too much to apply to, maybe instead of 5-7 reaches, 3-5 reaches, applying to 8-10 schools. Application fees are becoming more and more expensive, and if you truly know what you want you probably shouldn’t have to apply to more than 10 schools. Thats just my 2 cents though.</p>

<p>GPA and ECs should also factor in to the reach/match/safety determination.</p>

<p>Some students have a strong preconceived notionwhere they want to go before they start. I wonder how much difference it will make to go through a process in those cases.</p>

<p>For many top students, attending an Ivy is like a dream come true and everywhere else would be a disappointment. That probably is not a good attitude since the Ivies have such low admit rates.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Hi, collegehelp, that’s an interesting bit of advice. To date, I think the colleges my son is considering all make taking a standardized college entrance test one of the formal admission requirements, but they probably don’t all weight test scores equally in the admission process. What do you think the issue would be at a college that simply doesn’t require tests?</p>

<p>tokenadult-
Well, SATs seem to be a pretty good predictor of college success. Their advantage over things like high school rank and high school gpa is that they are standardized, They also give separate math, verbal, and advanced subject scores. Why would a school NOT want them? They could add something useful to a candidate’s overall profile. The admissions committee could weight the SAT score however it wanted. </p>

<p>A school that drops the SAT requirement may be catering to the rankings, trying to maintain rankings and marketing position while admitting less qualified applicants. A school might be having enrollment problems, secretly dipping deeper into the applicant pool. Or they may be trying to appear more selective than they really are.</p>

<p>I can’t think of an honest reason for ignoring SAT scores.</p>

<p>It leads to false advertising. It makes it harder for prospective students to make an informed choice about their school.</p>

<p>I’ve already found my reaches. Reaches are probably the easiest schools to find. I’ve also found a match and a safety, but I still want to find another match and safety so I’ll be applying to six schools: 2 reaches, 2 matches, and 2 safeties.</p>

<p>“I can’t think of an honest reason for ignoring SAT scores.”</p>

<p>There are many:</p>

<p>– The college has a historic statistical base of applicants and has found that standardized test scores do not enhance the correlation between admittance and academic success. Or they have found alternatives (such as samples of work) which they have found equally helpful and are thus lothe to put their applicants through the expense and pressure of testing.</p>

<p>– The college has found that some test-averse students can nevertheless be excellent admittees and wishes to encourage these students to apply.</p>

<p>– The college has concerns about the identification of high test scores with economic privilege and, regardless of the truth of the matter, feel that they would be more welcoming of lower income students by removing testing as a required filtering mechanism.</p>

<p>The boost that standardized testing gives in identifying good applicants is not large and so it seems to me likely that some colleges might have success with alternative approaches.</p>

<p>Yes, this could give an artificial boost to rankings (as a test-optional college will be more likely to receive and publish scores from only its higher testing students) but if a school is sincere in giving its educational mission higher priority than its ranking it will do what it sees as supporting its mission regardless of whether its rankings go down or up. You can be sure that such schools know they will be accused of gaming the system, but - for valuing their covictions over criticism - I say such a school is to be commended.</p>

<p>There is at least one good reason to apply to more than one safety. In so doing you assure yourself not only of admittance but of choice. Even if all his/her other applications go sour, a student with two (or more) safeties in the bag still can feel that he or she has options.</p>

<p>Moreover I think some allowance must be made that an applicant might not feel the same way about schools in November (when they applied) as in April (when they are deciding where to go). Maturation happens. Hence, having a choice between two schools (I would advise that they be somewhat dissimilar but still agreeable) can help in that situation, too.</p>

<p>Here’s what we did:</p>

<p>1) Visited a couple schools the summer after soph year that had been on DS’s radar for his particular interests (which are long-standing and not likely to change much). This ruled out a couple of places, confirmed his first impressions of a couple others, and gave him a sense of what he was looking for.</p>

<p>2) Fall of junior year: Looked at more possible schools that had a similar vibe and academic perspective as the schools he liked over the summer.</p>

<p>3) Winter/Spring of junior year: Visited six schools, sat in on classes, met with profs/advisors, etc. Looked at schools and programs almost from a potential grad student’s perspective. By April of junior year, he had a list of eight schools – with a wide geographic range, various levels of selectivity, and different strengths. He also had SAT scores by then, so we knew where he would be competitive. Also talked to other friends who were seniors and looking at the same programs. They shared notes and impressions and DS got a LOT of valuable insider info about real life at these schools.</p>

<p>4) End of junior year: Talked to teachers about recommendations.</p>

<p>5) Summer after junior year: focused on research and got started on applications (not so much the essays, but figured out what he wanted to talk about). Started writing research paper. </p>

<p>Got a reality check from Dave Berry of CC with the StatsEval review, which verified we were on the right track. He didn’t pick schools so much based on safety/match/reach as for what they offered and how he would fit. Personally, I don’t like the words “match” and “safety” as much as “target.” To me, a target school is one where one has a reasonable chance of getting in and is one where he would be happy, and may well include one’s favorite school. He picked his list so that he could see going to any one of the schools on his list over any one of the others. </p>

<p>6) Beginning of senior year: gave rec forms to teachers the first week of school. Finished his research paper before classes and applications got crazy. (A seriously, seriously good decision.) Took two quick trips on school holidays to investigate further/talk to profs. Added one more RD super-reach.</p>

<p>6a) He took one self-studied science SAT-II in October. He did very well, and given his hectic schedule, I am thankful he didn’t get burned. Finish testing before senior year!!!</p>

<p>7) Fall of senior year: Applied to state flagship early, though decisions aren’t released til Feb./March. However, applying early puts one in consideration for merit $$. Also applied to three schools EA – one his favorite, all three are highly competitive. This would give us a barometer as to his competitiveness in the applicant pools. No ED and no SCEA apps.</p>

<p>8) Mid-December: Got EA results. Dropped two targets and super-reach, added a different super reach. Having an excellent school acceptance in mid-December is a HUGE relief. Seven apps total. </p>

<p>Originally DS (and we) thought he’d keep to his list and see the thing through til April. Once he had happy results in EA, there were schools he decided not to pursue. So we sent scores and transcripts to a few places where he didn’t ultimately apply, but it was better than trying to arrange for this stuff at the last minute should he not have been happy with his EA results.</p>

<p>DS was >75th%tile on SAT scores everywhere he applied. He did not consider any of them a safety based on that alone.</p>

<p>If current juniors are considering applying to Siemens, Intel, essay competitions or other potentially time-consuming events in senior year, get whatever you can done early – HW, research papers, college apps, essays, etc. so you can savor the good stuff if it happens.</p>

<p>Great post, tokenadult. </p>

<p>One reason to apply to a larger number of reaches is that the probability of admission to each one is low, but, if the student meets the criteria for admission, the probability of admission at one or two increases. When some colleges reject nine out of ten applicants using highly subjective criteria for making those final choices, the only logical response is to apply to more of those colleges (if you can find more that appeal to you). With the cost of undergrad school running into six figures at many schools, I wouldn’t let the application expense be a major factor in building my college list.</p>

<p>A couple of safeties isn’t a bad idea. Too many safeties suggest an unwillingness to make any decisions at all.</p>

<p>One other way to narrow a massive list of colleges is to look at a major and a backup major (or possible minor, or even possible double-major). By seeking a school that has a strong program in more than one area of interest, it may be possible to cross some colleges off the list. Sure, some good schools may be knocked out of the running by this fairly arbitrary step, but it’s one way to refine the list and also give the student confidence that if his/her chosen major doesn’t pan out there will be other options.</p>

<p>For example, one student I know wanted to major in communications, but was also a talented musician (though he wasn’t planning to continue in that discipline). Looking for colleges strong in both areas created a shorter list that still included plenty of great schools of varying degrees of selectivity.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>This is critical, CountingDown. Way too many students (and parents) focus on reach schools, and the safe choices are afterthoughts. When the reaches all send rejections, suddenly the student is faced with attending a college he/she doesn’t really care for.</p>

<p>Ideally, much more effort should go into choosing a couple of very desirable but completely safe choices than in obsessing about schools that reject most applicants.</p>

<p>Thanks for starting this thread, tokenadult. Great idea.</p>

<p>This is our first time through the process, but I’m seeing the value of showing your safeties your love so that they don’t turn you down over yield concerns. My son was caught off guard when he received a phone call from the admissions rep at what is statistically a “safety.” He answered honestly when asked if he had received offers from other schools, and then followed up with why he thought the calling school was a good fit for him. The rep easily could have assumed my son would only want the other school which is much higher ranked. I do think more than one safety is a very good idea in order to be safe. And as Descartesz said, it is good to have options.</p>

<p>In developing the list, I’ll second Roger’s advice to look for more than just the major. One of my son’s friends picked a school with a great reputation for his major. From that aspect, it is perfect. He came home for Christmas dying to have conversations about politics. The kids at his school aren’t the least bit interested. So, even if one isn’t considering minoring in an area of interest, it can make a big difference in quality of life to have an outlet of some sort for it.</p>

<p>I am finding this all so frustrating so thank you all so much for your insight. My kids probably fall into the +75 percentile in scores, and grades and one maybe 1st and the other top 5, both very different but desirable ec’s and volunteer work though neither recruited athelete or URM. Aid won’t be part of our decision. So what do we do… the schools thy like the best are all highly selective- I once read someplace on here likey, that if the acceptance rate was over 30% and you were in the +75% then it could be considered a “likely” (that’s what we call them here- nobody likes to go to or be a saftey). What if the state u, even if great just isn’t a place they would fit?<br>
I guess that’s where schools that are primarily numbers driven will come into play?</p>

<p>2by2, I just looked at your other posts and it appears you have juniors. Can your kids identify what it is exactly that they like about the schools that are their favorites? That was what my son had to do. He developed a list of qualities that are important to him, and from there we found schools to meet those qualities. Like your kids, our state u wasn’t the best fit given his interests. Some schools on his final list involved trade-offs. For example, for one school the climate is not what he would prefer. He decided, though, that it was a far better fit for him than state U, so onto the list it went. In this case, there were many other positives about the school, and only the one drawback. When decisions come out we will have to sit down and look things over and decide what works out the best overall. (I’ll add we were not able to travel around visiting schools. Once decisions are made, then he can do that.)</p>

<p>His list of schools looks pretty disparate on the surface, but there are very specific reasons each was picked. Knowing himself and what is important to him was key. If your kids can hone in on exactly what qualities they are looking for, I’ll bet there are parents here who have good suggestions on schools with those attributes.</p>

<p>2by2 raises a good point: you shouldn’t restrict yourself to the test score and standing/GPA ranges in assessing admission probability. Consider the admission rate, too. Even if you’re 75% in your test scores (and this should be across multiple sections, not just total), if you’re applying to a school with a 10-15% admission rate you might still have less than an even chance of being admitted.</p>

<p>Thank you so much 2blue, I am assuming that their interests and goals will change some over the next few months and summer but finding those match and likely schools are a real concern to me. I know you remember when…
Good luck to you with all of the decisions that are right around the corner!</p>

<p>DS had two state schools on his list, one in-state and another OOS. Another student from DS’s HS is at the OOS school in the Honors program, and was frustrated with advising in the Honors department, esp. for double majors. (We found this pretty surprising, as it’s an excellent school and DS took a serious look at it in part because of info we learned here on CC.) I also suspect that there are some unique circumstances involved, but which my son may also share with this student, so the concern was not to be taken lightly.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the Honors advisor in the dept. where my DS would major at the in-state school is exceptionally good at getting students placed where they need to be, including across schools within the university. The advisor has met and spoken with my son on a couple of occasions, and we know other students who have worked with this advisor and have gotten wonderful opportunities.</p>

<p>DS weighed these two sets of experiences, said that all other things being equal, he’d take the proven personal and immediate experience of the flagship. The OOS was one of the schools where he withdrew after getting EA decisions. </p>

<p>Caveat: Had he been really committed to the OOS school, esp. if EA had not gone well, he would have still cheerfully completed his application. He would have known to keep his eyes open, be on top of core and major course requirements and timing, and to ask specific questions.</p>

<p>2blue said: “His list of schools looks pretty disparate on the surface, but there are very specific reasons each was picked. Knowing himself and what is important to him was key.”</p>

<p>You took the words right out of my mouth! :slight_smile: DS’s GC thought his list had no rhyme or reason (750 students to 40,000, both coasts and in-between, sun and snow, LAC to engineering). When he explained WHY he selected those schools, she got it. </p>

<p>DS had a life-changing experience the summer after sophomore year. It crystallized what he believed in and what he wanted out of life. He spent a lot of time reflecting after that summer about which paths to pursue and what personal growth was needed to accomplish those goals. That process of knowing oneself and understanding is probably more important than the actual school one’s S/D ultimately attends. It’s the hard part of this process, and, like college essays, requires some serious self-reflection and willingness to put oneself “out there.”</p>

<p>But once he gained that self-awareness, finding schools was easy.</p>