I wanted my daughter to attend a LAC… she did not have an interest.
I agree with the poster who said if you focus on LACs near big cities, it may be easier to convince your parents. Also if you attended a school such as Wake Forest etc then that might be a nice compromise.
I wouldn’t be so sure of that.
It seems like LACs are reducing requirements for majors so it is now very common for students to double major at LACs, and even triple major. It makes graduates at LACs top contenders for grad schools against those those graduated from research universities. LACs which focus on undergrad education also make it easier to jump in on a research project early in one’s college career. Many students spend a semester abroad to get global experience outside the LAC.
D at W&L had tons of friends that double majored - really pretty easy. She could have except the changed directions several times. She ended up using extra time to study piano again and to take enough classes in one major to have been a minor at most schools (but not offered as minor there). In terms of classes, there was a semester or two when the pickings were slim in some areas without taking something she really wasn’t interested in. The example that sticks out is needed another literature course, but many above a certain level were restricted to majors who had taken a certain gateway course.
I’m sure this varies by school LAC or not, but in case of W&L it was very writing intensive, in every class except maybe math. She learned to write well and came out comfortable writing 10-12 page papers in a day or so. I think this gives a strong start to grad programs. D at big school didn’t do as much or as frequently although she had enough to be doing well in grad school where she writes longer papers on a regular basis.
Another student I know at less prestigious LAC was STEM major who wanted to do PhD. This is school with good med school placement record so generally good in STEM subject. Great grades, research, conferences, etc but she didn’t get any acceptances. She found she still didn’t have the breadth of coursework she would have had at big school. But I’m sure there are LACs where this would not be the case depending on major.
D at large university had good research opportunities, many that came with honors programs.
Again - money. Schools mentioned above like Wake sound like a good compromise, but at the time D2 applied it was the most expensive school she applied and was accepted to. Can’t imagine the price now.
You have lots of time, so your interests may change. You have lots of time to discuss/consider LACs with your parents. It sounds like they have taken you to visit some, so maybe there is some openness on their part. Maybe you can consider what some have suggested–mid-size schools that combine the advantages of LACs with the research opportunities of large universities. Some would include William and Mary, Richmond, Wake Forest, Tufts, Rochester, Emory, Rice, Tulane, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Washington University in St. Louis, Case Western (science/engineering), and WPI (science/engineering). I sort of think of William and Mary, Tufts, and Rochester as VA, MA, and NY versions of the same school. Brandeis, Emory, Santa Clara, and Wash U are more or less in suburban areas near large cities. Case is in a nice, culturally rich area of Cleveland, an underrated city, though the weather is cold. I think the education offered at Rice is not exceeded by any school.
Double majoring is easier at some LACs than others. My D is at Bates, which requires a senior thesis, thus a double major means two theses. Quite a few students do them, but it’s not easy.
Better LACs are known and respected by people who are “in the know” and by graduate admissions. Large research universities are well known (there is almost always a “University of XXXX” and many are known through big time athletics ), but not necessarily respected. I’ve generally found students from good LACs write and present arguments well and are well rounded. Students at large research can possibly dive deeper into a subject, but I haven’t found them otherwise better prepared for graduate study or life or career.
“Do you mean specific majors or in general?”
I meant specific majors. Yes, there are of course students who double major when at a LAC. They just don’t have the same two majors that my older daughter has. Actually, I probably should also change that to “at MOST liberal arts colleges”. There certainly are a lot of LACs with a variety of different strengths.
I would talk to my parents about what they thought would be good characteristics of a college and why.
Also make sure you understand some hidden things they want…like they may feel that LACs are private schools and pricy but would think that public’s are affordable. That has to be the first thing you work with…how much can they pay a year.
Regarding the price tag, depending on the LAC and one’s family’s financial state, sometimes one can wrangle FA/scholarship packages which could make paying for it comparable or sometimes even less than attending one’s local public colleges.
The last was the case with me due to budget issues with my in-state public colleges when I attended.
Right, @cobrat ! But the OP has to find out what the real issues the parents have with LACs…it very well could be affordab.e
Hi everyone! It’s me again. Thank you all so much for your advice! I brought the topic up again with my parents last night and presented some of your ideas and they agreed that we could check out a couple more LACs when we get the time. They really liked that Amherst was part of a consortium, so I could cross register. I don’t have to worry about finances for undergrad due to very generous grandparents, but I’m going to be on my own with finances if I end up at grad school, so that’s a consideration I’m going to have to make. Thanks again for all your help!
FWIW I believe Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr (if female) are in a consortium that allows cross registration at UPenn.
That depends on what type of grad school you’re talking about. PhD programs worth attending are those which award full-fellowships to their students which not only cover tuition, but also come with a small stipend as well.
If one’s admitted to a PhD program…even an elite one without any funding, run as far away as it’s effectively a “soft rejection”.
Even if one graduates, the absence of a fellowship on one’s CV will raise red flags with tenure track hiring committees and thus, make one less competitive considering the keen competitiveness of tenure-track hiring even in the STEM fields. And I know of a few private employers(Mostly former tenured/tenure-track Profs) who would seriously question the judgment of grad students who thought it was a good idea to be full-pay for a PhD program.
Also, even in other professionally oriented graduate programs such as MBA programs or Masters in CS/IS/Engineering, some employers have tuition reimbursement programs or in a few cases…even offer to pay full tuition outright as a gift as happened to a relative after she did her 2 year stint at BCG after undergrad which made attending a top 3 MBA program free in her case.
ladidee you should know that the top LAC’s are nearly as competitive as HPYS because of their small size and the huge percentage of the admitted class that are recruited athletes.
@happy1 - The Quaker Consortium allows students at the 4 schools take classes at the other schools, but the relationships aren’t equal. Haverford and Bryn Mawr share a registration system. The Bi-Co (as it’s called) allows for unlimited classes on either campus. They can use each others dining halls. Adding Swarthmore to the mix (the Tri-Co) allows cross registration, but has limitations on what you can take. You can eat, but it has to be approved by your dining services before you eat at the other school. Tri-co registration is not hard to do, but it’s not “open”.
Students do take classes at Penn (and vice versa), but it’s not common. There has to be a reason, ie the class isn’t available anywhere else. I’d say maybe ~5% or less of the Tri-Co take classes at Penn.
@ladidee I have a D who graduated from URichmond in 2016 and another D who is a UR rising senior. Their dad and I both attended a big public state U, and we also have a rising sophomore who attends Temple U, so we have some decent perspective about the different experiences.
Out UR graduate had a wonderful experience. She was able to do lab research with a professor starting her freshman year, had paid summer internships, atttended academic conferences, spent a fantastic semester abroad at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. Her professors, advising, and career services were all excellent.
After graduating from UR, she spent a year as a research fellow in DC at The National Institutes of Health, while she applied to Biomedical Sciences PhD programs (she wanted to take a gap year). She was accepted to UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, and Duke. She was extemely well prepared for graduate school by UR, and all of her UR friends have good jobs or are attending grad school, med school, etc. Other friends who attended other LACs had great experiences and outcomes also.
Our current UR student is doing great also. There is a wonderful sense of community at LACs that can be harder to find at larger Unis.
Richmond also has a vibrant downtown area, with lots to do, great restaurants, etc. There is also an Amtrak stop several miles from campus, so visits to DC, Philly, and NYC are very doable.
@EyeVeee Thanks – I learned something (and I’m a Penn graduate LOL). Mostly I was putting it out there since the OP wants to attend a LAC and his/her parents seem to feel more comfortable with a LAC if it is a consortium – I thought being in a consortium with an Ivy school could bolster the case if he/she wants to consider any of those LACs.