Hi,
I’m an international student (but an US citizen) who is going back to the US for college.
I kind of have a shortlist of colleges, but LACs are mostly absent, because my parents don’t seem to think its a good idea. Mine are mostly large public colleges. (UCs)
I will be a biochemistry/chemistry/ BME major (only if the program suits me) at most places. I will also be a likely premed, but I have interests in a WHOLE lot of different places,and I’d like to explore those first and double major in those areas maybe- psychology/ international relations/materials science/comp sci/journalism/public health. As you can see, all over the place- but I def have no interest in business related areas. Colleges with a focus on music for non-majors would be greatly appreciated. I am most def interested in grad/professional school. I’d also like to participate in undergrad research.
The main reason I’m thinking of LACs, is because I’m mostly shy, quiet and introverted. I find it hard to make new friends quickly, and speak up in class, and generally be forthcoming and aggressive. (if that’s the word I want to use). But I don’t really want to stay this way. I like being anonymous, but sometimes it has an effect on my involvement in academic/extracurriculars, and I want to change that. But, I don’t want a super competitive environment either. Would an LAC help me better in this respect?
My parents feel that LACs aren’t the best prep for the real world and jobs etc etc. The only drawback I see, is that most LACs are exceptionally small (<2000) and I don’t really like that aspect- I’d like a healthy mix of new faces and familiar faces. I’m not big on sports either. Just intramurals.
As a compromise, I’m currently looking at smaller research unis like Tufts/ U of Rochester. Any suggestions for other colleges? I’d like to stay in the California area (where I have family) or the East Coast.
Thank you so much for your patience!
How about a Claremont college? You get the benefits of a LAC with the resources of a mid-sized college because of the consortium. Maybe Pomona or Scripps? I wouldn’t recommend Mudd if you are pre-med, grade deflation is real there.
Are you eligible for need based financial aid? Most large state universities won’t give you any.
Also… your job prospects will be determined much more by your major than by which college you pick. I personally went to a renowned public university, but feel my kids have gotten a better education at their LACs, and their job prospects have been fine.
Do you have state residency in any state? That affect cost and financial aid at public universities.
LACs typically have smaller classes, particularly at the frosh/soph level, though they may have fewer or less frequent offerings at the junior/senior level. You can check course catalogs and schedules for each school for class sizes and class offerings.
The pre-medical courses are mostly frosh/soph level courses, and can be done with any major (though about half of applicants and matriculants major in biology, which overlaps the pre-med courses). Since these are often among the largest classes at any given school, a LAC that has small class sizes for these may be advantageous if you prefer small class sizes. However, some of your possible majors like materials science/engineering and biomedical engineering are uncommon at LACs. Computer science at LACs and smaller schools varies in offerings; see http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18966522/#Comment_18966522 for a comparison.
“your job prospects will be determined much more by your major than by which college you pick.”>>> Also what I thought too! But then, I’m picking biochem, which is not the most employable degree nowadays 
Yes, I am eligible for all kinds of financial aid.
My residency situation is extremely complicated (parents divorced, one parent resident of California, but may not cooperate) but it is likely that I will get residency in California. Legally, I am eligible, but it depends on whether my dad will cooperate.
About Mudd- well, I applied to UCB, and now I’m feeling really stupid about it, after hearing about the same premed problems- grade deflation. I got fee waiver for four campuses tho, so guess its ok
Grades? Test scores? Do you need financial aid? If Dad isn’t cooperating, that could be a serious issue since he needs to fill out the financial aid application - have you discussed this with him?
Re LACs, most don’t offer engineering and those that do won’t have something as specialized as BME (perhaps Mudd is an exception here). Assuming engineering isn’t important to you, then LACs are great for pre-meds (they tend to have a more cooperative, less competitive culture, and the small classes ensure that faculty know you for that crucial committee letter). They are a mixed bag for a shy introverted student: On the one hand, it’s easier to make friends when you see the same people in class, in the dining hall, in the dorm every day…that frequent interaction breeds familiarity and may raise your comfort level in reaching out. On the other hand, classes tend to be more participatory, especially the seminar variety. It’s harder to hide than if you are sitting in a large lecture. Since it sounds like you’d like to be more social in the future though (not the case for every introvert), a LAC might serve you well.
Why exactly do your parents feel that LACs aren’t good prep for the real world? There are a great many students who attended LACs who would argue that, on the contrary, LACs are wonderful places for building the kind of skills that take you the distance in the ‘real world.’ Your social networks are stronger, your faculty relationships involve more mentoring, the support for self-advocacy is greater: Less ‘cog in the machine’ than at a huge state school that isn’t going to care about who you are and what you need. If your mom is staying overseas and your dad isn’t much involved in your life, you might find that a more nurturing and responsive school makes the road a bit smoother. A large school certainly offers more opportunities to fend for yourself against the bureaucracy, but ‘a good learning experience’ doesn’t always make for a pleasant one.
I also wouldn’t worry about the size of most LACs: Even 1,600 students feels quite a bit bigger than a high school of 1,600 because you haven’t been in elementary and middle school together and don’t know each others siblings and families. If you are at an urban LACs, the city is always there for you. But even in a small college town, you’ll not lack for new people to meet - 1/4th of the class graduates and another 1/4th arrive every year. With the turnover, you aren’t likely to exhaust the social options.
Parent here of one kid at public flagship with another one who is looking only at LACs, addressing the question of whether a LAC environment might suit the OP.
Some time ago, there was a long thread on CC about whether large or small was good for more introverted or more shy types (realizing those are different types of people). Many parents observed that, contrary to what you might expect, such students found large schools easier to navigate, both in and out of the classroom. With large lectures and related small discussion groups. students could “disappear” into the lecture when they wanted. Socially, there is SO much going on at a large campus, a more reserved student has many ways to find their group of peers. LACs can present more challenging academic and social situations because, in small classes, a student is typically expected to be “on” and participate regularly, and at smaller campuses, people can be in each other’s business more. So, parents of some introverts realized that their kids actually thrived more in a big school, which is contrary to what we might expect.
Which state do you and the parent you live with have residency in?
If your father is uncooperative, then many colleges with good financial aid will not give it, because they require both parents’ financial information. See their financial aid pages – if a college requires CSS Profile and do not state that they do not use non-custodial parent information, then you have a problem with the college. In any case, be sure to run net price calculators at such colleges using income and assets from both of your parents. Colleges using only FAFSA only consider the parent that you live with.
Getting California residency may be harder than you think: http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Records/residency.html
You are not required to major in biology or biochemistry to do pre-med. If you do graduate with such a major but do not go to medical school, you should open your job search to non-major-specific types of jobs, like many humanities and social studies graduates do, rather than restrict yourself to the biology-specific job market.
To get around financial aid problems with non-cooperative parent(s), consider adding merit scholarship schools to your list:
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/
What state are you a resident of?
Not necessarily. Every LAC is different, and different LACs have different personalities and attract different kind of students. I went to an LAC myself, but most students there were actually pretty extroverted, outspoken, and forthcoming. While a shy student could find her footing there, she’d be in the minority. Being anonymous certainly wasn’t an option, but it could be rather easy to fade into the woodwork if you didn’t make an effort to get involved on campus.
The thing is, LACs are no better or worse preparation for the real world and jobs than large publics or medium-sized privates. It really depends on the fit between student and school.
What many people may not understand is that although LACs are a small group of colleges, many colleges offer a liberal arts education that is going to be as wide-ranging as an LAC. For example, you can get a liberal arts education at Columbia or Tufts or URochester. The emphasis is a little bit different, but Columbia is a great example of a private research university that actually cares very much about a grounded liberal arts education, so much that they have the storied Core Curriculum. So you may prefer a medium-sized university that emphasizes a liberal arts tradition and exploration.
I think it depends on the major and college. It’s probably true for students with pre-professional majors and majors with lots of lucrative opportunities - like engineering, computer science, nursing, et al. But for certain career areas that are focused on prestige, like banking, consulting, publishing, fashion, etc., where you go to school may have a bigger impact than your major (particularly with a humanities or social/natural sciences major). It’s not even so much prestige as it is the alumni network and the recruiting opportunities there are at those schools.
I am not a resident of any state, and am considered an out-of- state, regular (not international student) for all states. However, my dad is a California resident. I have spoken with all UC colleges at length, and they have said that if my Dad cooperates (i.e. provides all documents) I will get in-state. In the event this doesn’t happen- well, I’ve applied to a financial safety as well. And now I want to focus on private colleges, which offer more scholarships.I know about the NCP and FAFSA forms, but that is a different discussion- my residency situation is rather complicated.
That being said: @ucbalumnus : thank you so much for the links! I will def be applying for scholarships- I need all the help I can get. Had a question tho- what do they really look at? I’m not in the category of most brilliant students, that’s why…also, how hard is it for OOS to get FA at a state school?
My SAT score is 2120- we had neither gpas nor class rank, so I can’t tell you more than this. I was above average in class, but not top 10%.
@juillet : That is really more the kind of schools I’m going for! Columbia is out of reach haha…but Tufts, U of Rochester seem to be more my type- of course, I can’t visit but still. Are there any other colleges in this mid-sized research uni category? I’m also applying to JHU.
The automatic ones look at your GPA, test scores, and sometimes rank. The competitive ones presumably look at more criteria. The National Merit based ones may be automatic or competitive (as specified), with the additional criterion of requiring National Merit status.
Most state schools give poor or no need-based financial aid to out-of-state students. UNC-CH, Virginia, and maybe Michigan are the possible exceptions.
UMich apparently looks at NCP info. https://profileonline.collegeboard.org/prf/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet.srv
I have talked with a lot of schools (I’m thinking of applying to the above 3, but haven’t talked with them yet) and after I explained my situation, many said they will not need NCP. Btw, aren’t all 3- UMich, UVA, UNC-CH,very hard to get in for OOS students? and all this is extremely helpful, but it’s not really relevant to my question- I’m looking for research colleges similar to LACs. I would really love it, if we could shift this discussion about residency/FA to my other thread- http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18986255#Comment_18986255 - thank you! 
It would be much better if you could post any relevant links to that question 
What about UScranton, SUNY Geneseo, College of Charleston if you want a slightly larger school?
All in all, “fit” is more important at LACs, so read your Fiske Guide/Princeton Review’s Best Colleges/Insider’s Guide carefully. Vassar is very different from Colgate, for instance.
I see…actually, expanding on this point- are SUNY schools good? I hear about their research centers etc, but Fiske’s doesn’t have very good things to say about them. They do have low OOS tuition tho
Take a look at South Dakota School of Mines & Technology to see if there is enough musical activity to interest you. The school has a University Orchestra, has other outlets for musicians, and offers a music scholarship to members of the University Orchestra. Mines is relatively inexpensive to begin with. It’s a small school known for its rigorous STEM curriculum and research opportunities for undergraduates. As concerns admission, Mines does not require data from the Non-custodial Parent. The ratio of out-of-state undergraduate students enrolled at Mines is significant.
Music + science = St Olaf.