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There are just too damn many woman teachers
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<p>Am I the only one who finds this to be a bit harsh? </p>
<p>Maybe I wouldn't find it offensive if it were socially acceptable for men to become elementary school teachers. </p>
<p>ps. Icargirl, at my elementary school we weren't allowed to talk during lunch because we might get distracted from eating our food.</p>
<p>Icar, kids in my daughter's elementary school haven't been allowed to run on the blacktop at recess (could get hurt you know...grrr), must file through the halls completely silently, must eat quietly at lunch, and read during snack (not even any talking to a friend). They did away with parties and food awhile back (food allergy concerns), so there isn't even a celebratory birthday cupcake and Halloween party. These are important hallmarks for kids growing up, and we've done away with all of them, foolishly, I might add.</p>
<p>But we celebrate "diversity" in that school, which I say sarcastically, because the only diversity of behavior accepted is that by kids who "can't control themselves" due to emotional reasons and are on IEPs. Everyone else is treated punitively.</p>
<p>It's a terrible way to treat children.</p>
<p>Do I sound sour grapesish about the repressive and restrictive nature of a supposedly "progressive" school? You'd better believe it, because, despite a huge amount of effort on my part to affect change in that school, I was unable to; as a result, my husband and I have to eat the expense to send our child to a private school that allows children flexibility and treats them like human beings and not automatons. But I am pretty bitter about the whole thing, that's for sure.</p>
<p>It has reminded me for some time, of the environment described in Lois Lowry's "The Giver". I think we are doing both boys and girls a terrible disservice in their education, by expecting them to work in school environments that are so colorless.</p>
<p>I agree that our restrictive, colorless schools are not good environments for either boys or girls. Girls often seem to adapt better but that does not mean they would not do better in a more creative, physical environment.</p>
<p>School environemnts were never good, but they seem to be getting paler. The aftermath of Columbia was negative. Training kids to be respectful will not compensate for a couple of psychopaths with guns. Our legal system does not help. Schools are afraid of being sued. They can't allow running on the blacktop. Around here things like outdoor clubs were eliminated 10 years ago. Even a parental release would not protect the school system when a kid hammered their hand instead of a tent stake. Parental attitudes have changed. Years ago if a kid got in trouble at school, they would also be dealt with at home. Not anymore. Parents are more likely to come to the defense of their kids and attack the teachers and administration. Anyone remember the long, long thread about a teacher's remarks that hurt a kid's feelings? Actually, as I remember the kid was not concerned. The mother was upset and relentless about wanting the situation corrected.</p>
<p>If anyone is not convinced, take a look at a grade school history book. Nothing could be more dull and lifeless. These things are written by committees and subjected to endless review so that no one is offended.</p>
<p>*Maybe I wouldn't find it offensive if it were socially acceptable for men to become elementary school teachers. *</p>
<p>Who said it isn't?
I had two male elementary school teachers in the 60s and my daughter had two in elementary school as weel- I also requested a third for 4th & 5th gd, because it was well known he had a more active teaching style that better fit her learning style- unfortunately- for 4th and 5th grade- she had a teacher for whom it was her first year, that had even lower expectations than her ( male) 3rd grade teacher had & a 5th grade teacher who was gone all year on "personal leave" because she felt more reponsibiltiy to sit by her ageing mothers side than she did for her students, leaveing them instead in the care of a series of substitute teachers.</p>
<p>Now she has 3 male teachers out of 6 periods- these are also the teachers that have the best communication, who have the clearest expectations, and the classes that she seems to be getting the most out of.
It could just be coincidence, but the teachers I had in junior high and high school that I must enjoyed, that were the most engaging and that I still fondly remember, were taught by men.</p>
<p>Im wondering if the women who go into education, were students who did well in school, and want to help others repeat their expereicne, where teh male teachers are trying to help students have a * different* experience than they did? ( yes I know generalization)</p>
<p>Edad,
I agree totally with your post. Schools have changed as society's values have changed. It is rare today for a parent to "back" the teacher or the school. Lawsuits are common threats and occurences. Everyone must be politically correct and if one child can't do something, then maybe noone should as it might make that child feel bad about himself/herself. Then we wonder why this generation is labeled so often as feeling/acting entitiled---they didn't get that way by themselves.</p>
<p>mKm, I think the change is a double edged sword. As schools have become more repressive and punitive, parents have gotten more combative about every perceived injustice to their children. Some of these complaints are very grounded in reality (because some of these injustices are cruel and unusual), and some are the result of PC gone very wrong.</p>
<p>I, myself, feel quite conflicted about the overly PC culture, to which I have wholeheartedly subscribed all my life, and the backlash it has created. On the other hand, I don't think the repressive nature of public school is acceptable, and I do believe that parents should speak up to try to create a sea change.</p>
<p>They can't allow running on the blacktop. Around here things like outdoor clubs were eliminated 10 years ago</p>
<p>Not here
my oldest daughters first airtravel was with her school , spring break of junior year, she went to Costa Rica- for an ecological/language trip/
They moved sea turtle nests at night to hide them from poachers, and as one of the oldest langage student she spent a few days staying with a Tico family
Senior year- her class had a 2 week backpacking trip through the Canyonlands.
My younger daughter again had her first airplane ride without me, although she went to Hawaii ( :( )- where she studied marine biology ( she was in 8th gd- but she went with a high school class- I was hoping to give her more information about the high school) & hiked the volcanic crater as well as surfed, and snorkled. ( when she comes back she tells me that she thought she saw a shark when she was snorkling- but didn't tell any body because she wasnt sure- uh-)</p>
<p>She has been planning to go to Australia- a land full of exciting hazards for over a year-I was hoping she would go as a gap semester before college, as part of a semi structured program, but apparently her marine science teachers said that if she helps plan the trip, they will go next summer- since the school hasn't been for 10 years.
It certianly is out of the box- & while it may make her fall in love with the land downunder and never want to live in the northwest again ( although to me- how could you compare arid land to mountains and forests?), but I have been trying to encourage her along to find her passion & Bill Bryson books just make her more eager to go!</p>
<p>Maybe its because we have worldclass adventurers in the NOrthwest- not only the Whittakkers but the father of one of my best friends in school was on the 1st American team to summit Everest ( HI Cari!)
the mountains are a big part of our lives- whether hiking- climbing or skiing on them- no not everything is guarenteed safe- but I believe in controlled risk- not wrapping our kids in cotton</p>
<p>We learn by doing- it helps us put into context the accomplishments that we read about</p>
<p>Em: Sounds great. Things like that do not happen here. The lawyers have advised the school boards that there is too much liability.</p>
<p>We had nothing so adventurous in our k-8. The 1 to 4th graders spend a weekend at a Cape Cod camp with teachers and parent chaperones. The 7-8 graders went on a field trip to NYC and DC, again with teachers and parent chaperones. There were also trips to labs, museums, and various historical sites.</p>
<p>Not entirely relevant to the gender issue but more along the topic of allowing some freedom to the children:
When we were in Austria and our girls were in grades 6 and 8 in the Austrian public school, they came home and announced that each class had a project. As it turned out a project is a trip that the students and teachers plan together and then take. The sixth grade went for three days and two nights to a sports camp: 60 Children 2 teachers 0 parents (That's right zero parents) The eighth grade spent the semester planning their trip to Vienna. Again at 730 in the AM we met this time at the train station. The train left with 60 children 2 teachers and 0 parents for three days and two nights in Vienna. Nothing bad happened and they all returned safely.</p>
<p>We also noted when we got on the bus in the morning that there was a crowd (8 or so) of first graders getting off of the same public bus that we were getting on. There were two or three fourth graders along to make sure no one got lost. We liked this graduated responsibility program, although we were not sure if it was intentional. It seems like we in America are overly protecting our children and avoiding some essential growth in some areas.</p>
<p>I'm afraid it's becoming a little too common to blame schools for the bad behavior of boys. They can't sit still, collage projects are making them act out, they don't get enough time to run around and express their pent up energy? Maybe part of the problem is what goes on outside of school. Video games, computers, etc. I have a son, he comes home from school and plays ball outside for as long as he can. Definitely a physical kid, "all boy" as the saying goes. He knows what the rules are at school, and he knows he has to abide by them, no excuses. Sit, listen, pay attention, respect the teacher, keep your hands to yourself, same rules my daughters have to live with. The last message I'd ever want to send him is that he's less able to live up to those expectations because of his gender.</p>
<p>Mardad:</p>
<p>European kids go to camp earlier. I remember going as young as 6. My main memory of that camp is getting head lice, along with the rest of the girls. We spent much of our time wearing turbans! Kids also go on trips alone earlier as well. My 15-year old niece thought nothing of going off to Corsica with a friend and hitch-hiking there for several weeks. I shuddered when she told me that.</p>
<p>As far as parent chaperones, American students need more rather than less supervision! Our S's school was banned for several years from a lab after some students created havoc. On field trips to DC, several students had to be sent home because of bad behavior.</p>
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This reasoning only works if you believe the ultimate goal should be creating adults who know to sit, listen, pay attention, respect authority, and keep your hands to yourself. Those are excellent qualities for many jobs but not all. Police, military, and architecture (according to Cheers' earlier post) are careers that require risk-takers with more assertive skills. Similarly, studies show that pilots and surgeons benefit tremendously from hand/eye coordination exercises, especially playing video games.</p>
<p>I think one of the unstated points of the letter posted in the OP is to show that, as a society, we will end up with citizens who only have the qualities you list and that we might not be better off as a result.</p>
<p>DRJ:</p>
<p>There are occupations where being physical is a great advantage, and I would think architecture is among them. But risk-taking can take different forms.</p>
<p>Some schools manage to instill intellectual risk-taking without being lax on discipline. My S delights in being contrarian. He wrote an essay for National History Day that his teachers were happy to forward to the next stage. But his essay raised eyebrows among the readers at the district level. The did not fault his evidence or argument, but mentioned that his essay went against uncoventional wisdom. His teachers, upon hearing this, were quite dismayed. S shrugged and said he was not interested in regurgitating conventional wisdom.</p>
<p>I agree, Marite. Here's an article about Saul Kripke, a modern-day male genius that I consider an intellectual risk-taker:</p>
<p>As noted in the article, Kripke hated to sit and write in school. I'm sure he was bored. I wonder how many boys and girls today feel the same way and how well our schools deal with this?</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but I think MomofFour's post distracts from the main idea of this post. It is not about how best to control kids in school or society, nor what is "expected" of them. </p>
<p>Instead, it is about - what sort of framework do boys learn best in? Psychologists and educators know that young boys learn best in active, hands-on environments. That is what fails to be respected in school.</p>
<p>If you haven't read this, it's sort of interesting:</p>
<p>"The Trouble with Boys"
<a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/%5B/url%5D">http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<p>Weenie, you're right. Thank you for the excellent linked article that addresses issues like the role of men in boys' lives, the way schools work against rather than for boys' needs, and the biological differences in how boys and girls learn. The article even discusses video games. Plus, there are these alarming statistics:</p>
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The number of boys who said they didn't like school rose 71 percent between 1980 and 2001, according to a University of Michigan study. Nowhere is the shift more evident than on college campuses. Thirty years ago men represented 58 percent of the undergraduate student body. Now they're a minority at 44 percent. This widening achievement gap, says Margaret Spellings, U.S. secretary of Education, "has profound implications for the economy, society, families and democracy."
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<p>
[quote]
This reasoning only works if you believe the ultimate goal should be creating adults who know to sit, listen, pay attention, respect authority, and keep your hands to yourself. Those are excellent qualities for many jobs but not all. Police, military, and architecture (according to Cheers' earlier post) are careers that require risk-takers with more assertive skills. Similarly, studies show that pilots and surgeons benefit tremendously from hand/eye coordination exercises, especially playing video games.
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<p>I disagree, but that's okay. Respecting teachers is not antithetical to being assertive or a risk-taker. Being able to sit still when you'd rather be outside running around is a good life skill, no matter what your future career choice might be. It's not an all or nothing situation, it's learning when and where a given behavior is okay. Boys love to be physical with each other, my son's favorite class is gym, but what's so bad about restraining that in the classroom situation? Why is it assumed that if a boy has to sit still that he's being denied his masculine creativity opportunity? Why is it that some boys do just fine with what is perceived to be girl-oriented learning styles? If anything, I'd say today's kids have far more hands-on, experiential learning opportunities than in years past. I won't give my son the excuse that the deck is stacked against him because he's a boy. There are going to be situations in life that may not be perfectly oriented to your every need or desire. Learning to be successful in spite of that doesn't doom one to being a mindless drone working for the Man.</p>
<p>What a thought-provoking thread! The gender gap lives at my son's HS where the girls really dominate (e.g., NHS is about 3-1 girls:boys). The proof will be in the pudding, when we see if the high acieving high school girls are equally successful in the real world, where the rules are often more fluid and where risk-taking is often necessary for advancement/achievement. I happen to think the reinforcement of stereotypical people-pleasing, compliant behavior is a disservice to the girls, too.</p>
<p>Momoffour:</p>
<pre><code>Sure, some boys are able conform to the rules in today's classrooms, but that doesn't mean it's the best, most effective way for them to be taught. Who knows how much more your son might get out of school in an environment that was more boy-friendly (without becoming anti-girl.) Also, what about the many boys who are not able to adapt as your son has? Because your son doesn't have a problem, does that mean there is no problem? No one is saying that boys, or girls, should be able to do whatever and whenever they please in the classroom. The articles and the evidence are saying that treating normal restless boy behavior as though it is always and consistently "bad behavior" is having an adverse affect on boys in school.
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<p>An excerpt from the Newsweek article: An elementary school principal in Boulder asked her teachers to read Michael Gurian's "The Minds of Boys" on teaching strategies that appealed to boys. Teachers were asked to cut back on lectures (sit-still-and-listen) lessons and try a more active approach. So instead of discussing a book, for example, students in one third grade class broke into small groups and each student acted out a character in the story. Other classrooms tried a bean-bag catch game that had students standing up and spelling a word or figuring out a math problem when it was their turn (ie. they caught the bean bag.) Strategies such as these are good for boys and girls but the overemphasis on testing seems to be pushing schools in the other direction. </p>
<p>The scary thing is that some boys can appear to be getting along just fine in elementary school, not getting into trouble, getting decent grades, until around 7th grade and then they stop. They stop turning in homework. They stop caring about the grades. They stop getting any pleasure or success out of school. They take themselves off the treadmill. The parents I know whose sons have "dropped out" mentally in middle school are at a complete loss of what to do to get their boys back on track. Any ideas?</p>