How to Educate Girls and Not Boys

Parents Forum
101

<p>Cheers:</p>

<p>We must have lucked out because our S's teachers had a sense of humor. One day, S's male friend was playing the part of a 17th-century woman and stepped out of the room. A teacher who did not know about the play scolded him. The next day, half the class came to school wearing pyjamas in solidarity. The teachers rolled their eyes and that was it. They just held class, pretending that all was normal.
I don't recall a lot of lecturing in k-8. But things changed quite a bit in high school.</p>

102

<p>Marite, the K-8 model is a good one. I think I know which district, and they do it very well. </p>

<p>The middle school model, on the other hand, tries to mimic a mini high school, but I don't think the kids are developmentally ready for lectures, etc. yet. At least not too many. Of course, there is an enormous difference between the sixth graders, who still like to trade different erasers, and the eighth graders, who are straining to grow up fast...</p>

103

<p>I ran across this 2005 study that deals with why and how education could do more for boys: <a href="http://www.aed.org/ToolsandPublications/upload/healthyboys.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aed.org/ToolsandPublications/upload/healthyboys.pdf&lt;/a>. I don't know about the group that produced the report but what I've read so far is interesting. For example, from page 13 of the report:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Shaffer described her findings that teachers perceive boys as “problems, difficult, and taking up more than their share of room in the classroom.” Part of the reason behind these perceptions, she explained, is that students are forced to sit in a chair for the majority of the day. Shaffer states that boys at the age of 10 need five recess periods per day, but the typical punishment when a boy misbehaves is taking away recess, and, with the increasing academic pressure to perform well on tests, many schools are doing away with recess altogether.

[/quote]

In grade school, recess was always our son's favorite class and now I see why! On the plus side, I'm glad people are thinking and talking about this subject.</p>

104

<p>"Northeast: I understand your son's reaction. On that day, both assignments were late and to him, the boy and the girl should have been treated equally. It doesn't sound like your son was aware of any class policy that indicated first time lateness gets a free pass. Or a stated policy that the free pass goes to students who are generally good about turning assignments in and also get As. If, the first time the boy was late with an assignment, the teacher treated him with undertanding and let it pass, then she was justified in being harsher with him on the 10th time than with the girl on the first. But if she was just as rigid with him the first time, then no, she did not treat these students fairly."</p>

<p>Jazzymom, My son only noticed this particular incident. He knows, however, that boy was nortorious for late assignments. On that day 2 kids had late assignments. He saw the boy and girl being treated unequally and he knew that the girl was known for being a child who is known to please teachers, and the boy was one who displayed behaviors that displeased some teachers. He has remembered this as an inequity in his mind. He did feel that both kiddos should have been treated equally. I am sure the teacher felt that she was doing what she felt was appropriate for both children, but my son has always remembered the incident as favoring the A student, the girl.</p>

<p>Marite, This took place in seventh grade.</p>

<p>Jazzymom, My son would have also been gluing pictures into the journal. He would have looked for the easiest, quickest way to deal with this type of project.</p>

105

<p>

Cheers, if you are still here, I thought the PSAT verbal and math sections were scored and added together. I don't understand how one section can be counted twice. Can you explain?</p>

106

<p>DJR4:</p>

<p>I think that Cheers is alluding to the fact that the PSAT has three sections, two of which focus on verbal skills.</p>

<p>I think that what happens in the classroom is not the main reason why boys (and girls) are antsy. It's the compression of the schoolday into as a short a time as possible in order to make room for ECs in the afternoon. The shorter day does not allow students to decompress or even to swtich mental gears from one subject to the next. And of course, it does not allow them to get rid of excess energy.
We had a longer school day through k-12, but also longer periods between classes, so there was less fidgeting in class, even those most were lecture style.</p>

107

<p>

Of course. Thank you, Marite. I'm afraid my ignorance reveals the fact that my son took the old SAT and my mindset is stuck on 1600. However, Cheers' comment made me wonder if the PSAT had also changed and apparently it did, to align it with the new SAT.</p>

108

<p>

Good point. I, too, had longer schooldays and more free time between classes. I still think schools focus too much on things that girls are better at and that aren't crucial to the learning process - sitting still and notebook decorations come to mind. Still, we all need downtime and it's unfortunate kids don't have more time to relax. Instead, our kids' days are packed with all the perfect activities that perfect kids do now that American parents only have 2.08 kids and need each 2.08 of them to be ... perfect.</p>

109

<p>marite: Perhaps your boy(s) had a better school experience having gone to school in a progressive, very well-educated city? (Am I right about that?)</p>

<p>Our all boys' HS still has recess! They have 15 minutes in the morning to run around, and get a snack. Lunch is 40 minutes and can always be eaten outside (but not IN cars ;) ). They even have a "flex" period everyday which serves as an extra time for tutoring, make up stuff, labs, study hall, music practice, etc.</p>

<p>Oh well, people may insist that boys "buck up" in schools (I've even heard teen girls say that) but with the levels of medication it's taking so many boys these days to just get through their school day and homework clearly something is wrong. Wouldn't it be interesting to know how the rate medicated boys compares in mixed vs. single sex classrooms?</p>

110

<p>Weenie:</p>

<p>I think my Ss had a terrific k-8 school experience. The high school experience was very different for them both because they are very different boys and also because the school changed dramatically between one boy and the next. I've just heard of a family that pulled their child from an expensive private school into the k-8 school because the private school was "awful."</p>

<p>The classroom often looked chaotic as students moved from group to group and parents from more traditional backgrounds were often surprised by what seemed the lack of organization. It's true that some of the kids fell between the cracks if the teachers were unable to ride herd on the class. There was also a lot of rehearsing for plays or skits which allowed students to move around.</p>

<p>Lots of CC parents of boys complain about the requirement to decorate homework. But others decry the loss of art education. My boys did have their share of "artwork." S1 complained; but S2 who is more artistic did not (he later took graphic arts classes at the high school). A lot of it, though, involved building things.and a lot of projects that included building things such as a trestle bridge. Some of the boys who were good at building have ended up at MIT.</p>

<p>I only observed gender discrimination once, by an inexperienced student teacher. The kids had been rowdy. She tried to separate them by having the boys go out to the hallway while the girls stayed in class. When they got home, the boys all complained to their mothers about gender discrimination; the mothers (including me!) got on the phone to the teacher pronto. In general, however, neither the mode of instruction nor the way of maintaining order seemed to favor one set of students over another. </p>

<p>PS: One 3rd grade project was making a class quilt. Each kid was provided with materials and told to sew a scene about something in their lives that was meaningful to them. Then all the squares were stitched together ino a huge quilt. At the end of the year, individual squares were returned to the students. Last spring, S asked for needle and thread to mend his favorite pair of trousers. I asked if he knew how to sew. He replied he still remembered from 3rd grade. Yipee!</p>

111

<p>I think art education is terrific - in art class. As a completely unartistic girl, I always hated projects that required drawing or models. Not only did such projects, in an English or Math class, have limited educational utility, in the younger grades your grade on the project was generally dependent on how artistic and sympathetic a parent you had. Beyond the boy/girl issue, I think such efforts to be "creative" (in a controlled, strictly regulated way, of course) in teaching are often educationally dubious. I feel the same way about power-points and computer presentations, though, which I guess would be more typically at the "boy" end of the spectrum.</p>

112

<p>I agree that most schools tend to be optimized for girls, and that it can negatively affect boys. It would be wonderful if schools could take their cue from developmental discoveries. Wouldn't if be great to have frequent fun physical breaks during the day, like 15 minutes of dodge ball right after math? To mix activities that require quiet concentration with those that release energy, like singing or drumming? </p>

<p>I think there are some boys who especially suffer from being in a typical public school situation, such as those who have attention deficits, excessive energy, aggressive responses, or react negatively to authority. Many of them could thrive with a more tribal structure - alpha leader, hunting in packs, team survival activities, discipline imposed on the ranks. Guided and positive example: a good military school; freeform and laissez-faire example: gangs.</p>

<p>Those with a case of academic turn-off or oppositional behavior often improve significantly in structured environments with clear boundaries, where there is some unifying theme and the activites foster self-esteem and the personal pride that results from conquering obstacles. A structure similar to the military system in basic training - effective at harnessing all that energy and stimulating the inner desire to achieve.</p>

113

<p>Why do we expect institutions to meet every individual need? It's an impossible ask.</p>

<p>marite, I experienced some of that gender discrimination in 7th grade. The nun let all the girls go home early while the boys--and cheers had to stay behind and clean the classroom. Of course, the nun was bananas. When it came time for Straight A baseball tickets, she went around the room changing report cards on the spot. I distinctly remember her chasing Jim Shaughnessy around the desks because he didn't want Straight A tickets. She also passed out the teacher's answer sheet during tests. </p>

<p>I told my mother what was happening but she thought I was making it up! Hah!</p>

<p>We did have some fun although I was in a few spots of trouble. It was a combined class--smart 7th graders and dumb 8th graders. Funnily enough, that bananas nun is probably responsible for my professional career. She told my mother to sign me up for advanced painting classes at the city art studio.</p>

<p>Speaking of art, we LOVED art projects in our house because we had all the presentation gear and the whizz bang presentation bits. Our boys' snazzy presentations drove those scientist parents crazy! hehe.</p>

114

<p>I feel I benefited from the presumed problem...is that a good thing?;)</p>

115

<p>Aaaahhhh..but are you old enough to know whether or not you have benifited? You are still 'in the system'. You think you are benefitting because you have accumulated some 'rewards', but you won't know whether the current 'rewards' were indicators of career rewards until you are out in the working world.</p>

<p>Are you heading into journalism? Do a quick survey of your favorite media outlet. More female than male bylines?</p>

<p>Anyway, I'd love to see if there is a shift ahead. Come back to us in ten years.</p>

116

<p>After reading some of the past posts, it appears that most suggestions to improve the school environment for boys involve more physical activities, more breaks, and less artsy-crafty projects. It seems we think boys cannot sit still. They need to run around, blow off steam and then they will do better. </p>

<p>I don't buy it. Our colorless, boring school environments are not good for either sex. Adults would not be able to tolerate the environments our kids must endure. Girls tolerate it and do better because the environment is feminine. Boys are capable of handling a structured, disciplined environment. They don't do well with nagging from a surrogate mother. Just look at some of the male organizations: the military, sports teams, the Catholic church, boy scouts. All are very structured and disciplined. </p>

<p>Grade schools are missing a male perspective and have very few male teachers/role models. Sure there is an occasional great male teacher, but very few. Many male teachers are content to work in a female environment and are not much different than the female teachers. It might help to consider how girls do in a male environment. Computer science and engineering programs are almost exclusively male with very few female teachers. Some tech schools, like MIT, do well and women are graduating in increasing numbers. Most do not do well. They are able to enroll many bright, capable women, but they have problems with retention and graduation rates. Many studies have been conducted to try to identify and correct the negative factors. It appears that tech schools might be too competitive. Expectations are high and grades are low. There is too much competition. You need to learn the material. Using verbal skills to bluff your way through does not work. Many women quit because they don't think they can keep up - even though they are in fact doing well. Often success is a matter of confidence and expectations.</p>

117

<p>My son attends a 150 year old boys' school which is strict enought to measure the distance between the navel and the beltline. Sagging trousers are banned. 90% of the teachers are male. Of the ten houses, only one has a female housemistress. </p>

<p>Students must stand to greet any faculty member. They wear full jacket and tie regalia--there are two different suits to wear during the winter. Teachers are addressed as "Sir!". Chapel attendance in mandatory.</p>

<p>The classrooms are pin drop quiet unless a discussion is called. </p>

<p>This environment is easier on boys, in my opinion, because the guidelines are very black and white, easy to digest for a testosterone addled mind. However, like the progressive school in the US, the school day still has many boring parts to it--mostly because of the subject matter and the undeveloped brains in the school.</p>

<p>Primary and secondary school students must learn to read, write, calculate and assess the scientific, historic and political world around them. Much of the material that must be covered is boring--like dragging fingers over chalkboards. It is not entertaining.</p>

<p>That is why, from primary school through secondary school, you rarely meet a boy who says he "loves" school. One, boys do not derive the same satisfaction from the social atmosphere as girls and two, boys do not seek or trust the 'reward' system set up by authorities in primary and secondary schools. They believe in the reward system of their pack of peers. </p>

<p>So part of the day is boring. It is a grind to learn all that material--in any setting. So what. It has to be done.</p>

<p>A parent's job is to find the school with the best balance or 'type' of grind (academic learning) and happiness. Much of that decision is based on the parent's academic expectations and social background. Fair enough.</p>

<p>Though we didn't set out to find a traditional school, having placed our son in one upon arrival in anew country, we have been pleasantly surprised by the results. Yes, he has been excruciatingly bored at times--but the overall experience has been very good for him--and for us. He is stretching himself in unexpected ways--partly because he has the time to do so. His evenings are his own.</p>

<p>Truth be told, in hindsight, as the parents of boys, we found the progressive, ultra-feminist, four hours of nightly homework high school too stressful. The school did not tolerate standard boy behavior. The mechanisms for disciplining boys were too few and often resulted in a trip to the counselor's office who standardly recommended going to the psychiatrist to get medication--for egging a car or skipping out for lunch.</p>

<p>We loved the primary school version, however. Pre-testosterone, that type of school was great for the boys.</p>

118

<p>Cheers' post is interesting. Another poster mentioned that her/his son reacted strongly to perceived unfairness. After some thought, even though I am mother of two late diagnosed ADHD boys, Cheers' sons environment might have been very good for my sons. They would have known exactly what to expect, rules didn't change based on the mood of the teacher, crying and whining by some students would do no good, everyone treated the same. The biggest problem my sons had with their public schools was when they believed the rules were not being applied equally to all students---whether it directly involved them or not.</p>

119

<p>

I agree, but the lopsided statistics and ever-widening gender gap tell us that something is more wrong for boys than for girls. To find answers, we first must recognize there's a problem. Not many people in education or society seem willing to do that.</p>

120

<p>Edad makes some good points above, but I would like to think that the same educational environment that fosters an 8 year old boy is not the same one that a 20 year old needs. We are talking about different needs at different ages (to some extent). Cheers outlines that above - that different stages of growing up may require different environments.</p>

<p>My sons' high school works not so much because of recess or whatever - but overriding it all is a BIG sense of ownership by the boys and the male teachers and all the "boyishness" that comes with that.</p>

<p>All kids who excel academically must get the material down - and no one can make the tough stuff "fun." And YES plenty of boys are bored there at times! But with maturity comes that understanding too. At high school balance is so important. For long hours studying or listening to a lecture, exercise or just yucking it up with the boys -these outlets are critical.</p>

<p>mkm: Interestingly, our all-boys school does have pretty strict "no second guessing the rules" policies. You'd have to or those boys would drive you crazy. I'd say the thing they battle the most is procrastination. So, in general, it's pretty much "you snooze, you lose." At least they've all had fair notice.</p>