How to Educate Girls and Not Boys

<p>I don't think that four hours of homework is progressive or feminist. In fact, mostly I think it is busy work and unnecessary and for some kids, downright unhealthy. Yes, some writing assignments, analysis, and problem solving is necessary. But the volume clearly isn't.</p>

<p>And the problem bleeds all the way back to elementary school where kids are spending two hours a night on homework, instead of playing, which is really preferable developmentally for kids that age.</p>

<p>It isn't that school has to be all fun and games, at any age, but I surely think a better balance of routine, structure, interesting discussion, projects, physical activity, hands on inquiry, etc. should be the rule, not the exception.</p>

<p>My take on the four hour homework policies. Many girls work beyond their potential by putting in longer hours. Thus the busywork is to the girls' advantage--IMO only. </p>

<p>Few boys have the willpower to work beyond the absolute minimum--on subjects that do not interest them. This turns to their advantage as they make themselves quite efficient workers but it is a killer in a school with a four hour nightly homework requirement.</p>

<p>Traditonal English (and European?) schools still work to the final exams and papers. Boys cram quite well, I've noticed. The pressure doesn't worry them. They are quite happy to have 70% of the grade rest on the final paper and exam. Again, this works to an advantage as these students are not intimidated by large learning tasks that must be completed in very short time spans.</p>

<p>Also, these traditional classrooms normally allow a significant period of in class tutorial time--time for the student to complete work in the classroom while the teacher circulates answering individual questions as a tutor. Quicker boys are able to complete 95% of the work in class.</p>

<p>Progressive 'feminist' classrooms call for non-stop discussion--a definite bow to female style learning. My boys often found their fourteen year old peer's opinions juvenile. They believed that most of those juvenile opnions were annoying quests for attention. They prefered to hear the lecturer.</p>

<p>Ultra-traditional classrooms were eliminated by the time I got to school.</p>

<p>Cheers:
I am amazed at how I'm reading your posts and nodding my head - yes - I see so many similarities in the all boys' schools and your analyses of what and why things work in there.</p>

<p>^^^
More nodding "yes" here, too.</p>

<p>edad, You have some good points. My older S has always performed better with male teachers. He hasn't had enough of them unfortunately. Interestingly, I have not noticed the same pattern with my younger son. He performs equally with male or female instructors.</p>

<p>

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/ap_on_re_us/boys_girls%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/ap_on_re_us/boys_girls&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Behind on all this - but agree with Hanna's post #14, although I would remind her that she spent three years at such an institution. ;) Many of my professors graded down for lack of participation and graded up for discussion. Thorough preparation is a requirement.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Imagine a school where the vast majority of teachers and administrators are men

[/quote]

Oh, has Mr. Nelson D. Horseman ever attended engineering school? Oh, I forgot! Women don't do well in engineering because it isn't all emotional, and our poor little brains just don't crunch all those big scary numbers! (Smacks head.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
and having points deducted for being compliant with arbitrary rules and meaningless deadlines.

[/quote]

Deadlines in the real world are very, very real. Imagine a doctor that calls you up the day of your surgery and says, "Well, I'm not prepared; we'll reschedule you to next week." Last time I checked, lawyers that miss deadlines can be sued for malpractice. I see no advantage to pretending that these things do not exist, merely to appease the immature (of either gender).</p>

<p>Personally, I'm tired of people complaining that a level playing field is unfair to men, simply because they are not performing as well.</p>

<p>DRJ4
I started a thread on this same AP article on the parents forum. Love to have parents chime in.</p>

<p>Menloparkmom,</p>

<p>Yes, I noticed your thread and I'm glad you started it. I hope everyone will post on your thread but I wanted to give eDad credit for his pithy prescience.</p>

<p>Just a few comments (all of which apply to secondary school, not primary school, to warn you beforehand):</p>

<p>I have read most of this thread, and found many of these posts very interesting. I would like to share another viewpoint: at my school, there is a completely different phenomenon occuring than what seems to be the general consensus of the public school treatment of boys and girls.</p>

<p>I am in a high school, by the way, where the majority of our teachers happen to be male. I am in a situation where, especially in math and science classes, girls are hardly encouraged to pursue interests in these subjects. These (primarily) male teachers devote much more time to male students than female students. They are more likely to offer assistance to male students who need help than female students who need help. They seem unconcerned by the large numbers of female students who are lagging due to teaching methods directed towards the advancement of boys. Even English classes include more "masculine" literature--there are no female authors or female protagonists in our entire literature curriculum.</p>

<p>For example, I once discussed my hopes of pursuing a biomedical research internship at a nearby university with my biology teacher (whose class I had a 98 percent in). His exact words in response were "Why would you want to do that? You're a girl." He meant the words jokingly, but his play on archaic stereotypes was still a huge turn-off. I had a similar experience with my algebra teacher. He requested volunteers from our class to assist in tutoring struggling pre-algebra students. I was amongst the few who offered my services, but my teacher turned down my offer with something like "Actually I was hoping for more male students to volunteer..." and launched into a lecture about how the male mind was better structured to appreciate logical and mathematical concepts.</p>

<p>My classes were nonstop lecturing. Our grades depended almost entirely on final exams. There was little to no homework, which I know many kids would view as a plus, but which I found frustrating. I eventually even began assigning myself homework, and my friends and I would hold long study sessions to practice lessons taught in class, but which we were never encouraged to actually use. The way I personally learn best, through assignments such as essays and research papers, were never assigned because my teachers didn't want to take the time to grade them. The only records of learning we had were the results of weekly scantron tests. For me personally, it is a horrible system of learning.</p>

<p>I am by no means a passive, uncompetitive, quiet teacher's pet, which seems to be the extreme end of spectrum of girls in the letter in the original post. I will admit that I do not intentionally break rules for the thrill of it, I do not engage in brawls over trivial matters, and I am not "overtly aggressive" which is the extreme end of the boys' spectrum. I do defend my views, I stand up for my rights, I hold leadership positions in ECs, I work hard in school, and believe myself to be fairly intelligent. But I never learned any of this about myself from my school, which caters to boys, is designed to help boys achieve success in life, and pursue their dreams (in my experience, at least). I had to make these realizations for myself, through my family, friends, and experiences.</p>

<p>I understand why so many of you are disappointed with the system's lack of appropriate teaching methods for boys. I am (inversely) in the same position, stuck in a school with teachers who do not know how girls think and how many of us need to learn. But I also don't think that the solution is to slide the tables towards males. For the sake of political correctness, that is what happened at my school. Administrators seemed to believe girls were benefitting too much through the education system and such teaching methods were unfair to boys. But girls require a certain learning environment as well. To suddenly invite open aggression, insubordination, and "masculinity" makes no sense to me whatsoever.</p>

<p>In the case of high school, at least, I also don't think it would be an alternative to have seperate classes for boys and girls. I enjoy attending school with boys, remaining open to their differing viewpoints and opinions, and I will have to work with and be exposed to them in the "real world" (which interestingly still supports males). On such a mass, national scale of separation of classes, many men and women would be alienated by each other in the "real world" because they often wouldn't understand the psychological nature of the other after having few learning experiences with each other. Just as it wouldn't make sense to seperate all workplaces into offices for men only and offices for women only, I don't believe the same should be done for schools.</p>

<p>Perhaps a better solution would be to encourage equal numbers of male and female instructors to pursue primary teaching careers (which I know has been tried) and to have smaller classrooms with less need for rules and order to control a large number of children. Instead of having a pure lecture class or a pure discussion class, combine a bit of both. Or have parents or students choose which particular teachers or classes they would prefer. I realize that these idea are not always plausible at the moment and may not even work successfully, but changes have to be made.</p>

<p>Well, that was just the opinion of a female student who is suffering what appears to be the same experience many males claim to be suffering. I have lost much of my interest in school and its subjects. I remain hard-working and pull decent grades, which may or may not be attributed to my nature as a girl. I have no thoughts or intentions of abandoning education or dropping out of school, but I still feel motivated by nothing more than my need to succeed. My teachers don't care about my success, and other than my friends, neither do my peers. I feel stuck. I know how it feels.</p>

<p>Veggiedog,</p>

<p>Thank you for an excellent comment. I hope you copy and paste it into the other thread on this subject started by Menloparkmom because I would hate for anyone to miss what you have to say.</p>

<p>I agree that a good solution would be to encourage schools to have more male teachers. Maybe the difference in our perspectives is that I see that as an effort to "slide the table towards males", as you put it. I think education (and many areas of life) are like a seesaw that require us to balance interests. If we tip too far in one direction, we try to get back in balance. Offering incentives so that more men enter the teaching profession seems like a simple and cost-effective solution that I think is worth a try.</p>

<p>I'm sorry you have had a hard time and I wish you had had more support and encouragement from your teachers. However, I am impressed by your ability to articulate and analyze your situation, as well as your ability to empathize with boys in a similar position. I think you will accomplish a great deal because you have had to work harder. I know that doesn't make it any easier to deal with, but you have my admiration and best wishes.</p>

<p>Veggiedog:</p>

<p>What you are experiencing used to be the norm. I read with interest a post (by Kluge?) about the opening gap between male and female students in the UK. I know of one young woman who wanted to do a Ph.D. at London University and was told by the only prof with whom she could work that he refused to take her on because he felt that her mission in life was to be home for her husband (they came to the US so that she could pursue her studies). I remember the first cohort of female students at Yale and Princeton. I once a met a woman who, in her 70s, was still angry that she had been discriminated against at Harvard.. </p>

<p>So you are victim of PCness, of PCNess that dates from several decades ago.<br>
Hang in there, though. It will get better in college.</p>

<p>veggiedog —
I'm so sorry you have to deal with an atmosphere that doesn’t support your educational goals.
I just wanted to address one thing.

[quote]
In the case of high school, at least, I also don't think it would be an alternative to have seperate classes for boys and girls. I enjoy attending school with boys, remaining open to their differing viewpoints and opinions, and I will have to work with and be exposed to them in the "real world" (which interestingly still supports males). On such a mass, national scale of separation of classes, many men and women would be alienated by each other in the "real world" because they often wouldn't understand the psychological nature of the other after having few learning experiences with each other. Just as it wouldn't make sense to seperate all workplaces into offices for men only and offices for women only, I don't believe the same should be done for schools.

[/quote]

This is a common and erroneous misconception about single-sex schools. I've heard so-called feminists use it as an argument against all-girls schools, which (some of them) believe are degrading and confining for girls. This is absolutely untrue.</p>

<p>I attended coed elementary, all-girls high school, and am now at a coed college. I loved my high school experience and believe that I excelled there more than I would have at a coed school. Keep in mind that high school is not the “real world.” It’s a time when people are still in the process of maturing, and the opposite sex can be a HUGE distraction from serious study. For me, the absence of boys in the classroom was liberating and allowed me to focus completely on learning.</p>

<p>Single-sex school is, of course, not for everyone. I just get upset when people who have never experienced it speculate about how detrimental it must be. My best friend from high school’s roommate said (to her face!) that people who attend single-sex schools turn out to be “socially retarded.” Neither I, nor any of my former classmates, are “socially retarded” or unable to interact with guys. I just wish more people would examine the benefits of single-sex schools instead of relying on stereotypes or speculation.</p>

<p>It's funny - the classroom discussion seems to only favour females when it's touchy-feely, giving free rein to the students. Law school is all discussion, but no one says that Socratic caters to the female learning style. That's because you can (and should) expect that everything you say will be either challenged by the professor or will lead to another question. </p>

<p>A high school class that just asks for opinions isn't doing anyone (girls or boys any favours. Try asking for opinions, then challenging them. Simply put, bad teaching is bad teaching, regardless of whether it be lecture-style or discussion.</p>

<p>Here is a Chicago Tribune story about one suburban school district that is trying to do something about the gap between how girls and boys learn:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/lake/chi-0609010206sep01,1,1153272,print.story%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/lake/chi-0609010206sep01,1,1153272,print.story&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>