How to find match/reach schools when student's stats are all over the place?

Parents Forum
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<p>Most of these would be high reaches. OP’s son’s SAT M is in the third quartile at Michigan, and his CR is in the fourth quartile; GPA, even throwing out freshman grades, is also 4th quartile. For an OOS applicant that’s probably not competitive as it’s much tougher to get in OOS. Similar standing at Cornell, though OOS wouldn’t matter. Because Cooper Union is free, it’s a longshot to get into (< 10% admit rate), though it may be worth a shot. I’d say of these schools, OP’s S may have the best shot at Carnegie Mellon. It’s also a definite reach, but given its entering class stats and admit rate a slightly more realistic one than the others in this group.</p>

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<p>It probably varies by mix of schools, major, and other variables. For example, DS (very high stats, interesting EC) was offered $0 in merit aid from Carnegie Mellon, $10K/yr from RPI, and $27,500/yr from Case.</p>

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<p>That’s the scale at our school. That scale and the 90-100 is an A scale are the most common. I’m not sure I agree with the grade inflation concept. My kids have taken many classes at their pretty competitive school where no students got the 94-100 on tests. They whine about that and complain that the teachers don’t grade on a curve. So, no, not all school systems have grade inflation.</p>

<p>And I agree that UofM engineering is quite reachy for the OPs son. I said it earlier. UofM puts much emphasis on the GPA as well as the test scores. They used to unpack and unweight but I believe they are changing their system. It is also tough for OSS kids to get in and typically it is not a school considered generous with merit aid. Great engineering school, though, no doubt about it. We’re working on third generation of UofM engineers in my family.</p>

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<p>My current college student had even more of a spread with his stats. He had a flat out 3.0, without a single A or C. He also was simply an unremarkable student with no awards, no special interest in any subject. I don’t know how his teachers wrote good recs for him, or his counselor as he was really an average student at a very rigorous school. But then he did very well on his SAT1. And his SAT2s. Like very, very well, and things really changed then. Matches became safeties and reaches became matches, and the counselors were urging him to go on ahead with some higher reaches, if he were so inclined. </p>

<p>But what I had done was really work with the weakest link of his application–the grades, and look for schools where his SAT was going to be in the upper quarter of the class. Before we had his SATs, I used his PSATs which were far lower and therefore gave a deflated picture. </p>

<p>I think it really is better to have the safeties, look for matches and then only throw in some reaches if there is true interest there, not for interest sake. The likelihood of money can be lower with such schools unless they are need blind and meet most of the need, and even then preferential packaging occurs. So by having kids in that upper quarter, really 5-10% for merit scholarship purposes, gives you some slack on the grades.</p>

<p>A lot of the larger schools, particularly state school are rigid about class rank/gpa. Your counselor is the person who can tell you what that gpa will get him in terms of an entry ticket to the state system. I have found that those counselors are universally very good about knowing chances of unis where kids from that particular high school have been applying in droves. If your kid goes to Catholic school, certain names show up over and over on kids’ lists and your counselor will have a very good idea if a kid as an excellent, good, fair, or little chance of acceptance from those lists. The private preps are strongest with the smaller LACs where they may even know the admissions counselors personally. But forget the state unis, most of the time, in that scenario. </p>

<p>I also recommend looking at some small engineering departments at some LACs that will be smacking their lips at that math score and the fact that he is a male. Yeah, sexist, but a number of LACs are fighting to keep the M/F ration to the 40/60 ratio which means boys are more coveted when far fewer of them apply to get that ratio, all other things equal. I have seen a lot of this situation. On the other hand, for your son to apply to a school strong in engineering and maths with a lot of students in that subject area, like Case Western, CMU, that high math score he has and the fact that he is male isn’t going to mean diddly to them.</p>

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<p>When D. applied, she did not think about safties / reaches. She just applied to schools that she has chosen for various reasons. Just apply and see what happen. He must have some idea where he would like to be for the rest 4 years and you might have some idea how much you are able/willing to pay for his next 4 years. This is enough to make a list.</p>

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<p>Hey, I’ve gotten some great ideas from my question. Both schools I had heard of and some I never had, but sound good, so we have some good choices to check out. I’ll post when we get our list together, that’s what next week is for, I have him home for 5 days. I received some better advice here, than a lot I’ve read on the College Search and Admissions forums. Now if I can just keep everything juggled and running semi-smoothly until I get him settled somewhere he’ll click, then I can relax. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>I took a look at the University of Michigan’s Common Data Set for 2009-2010, and found that 47% of the students had SAT M of 700-800. This puts a 710 somewhere in the top half of the admitted students. 73% had SAT CR scores over 600. This does not put the OP’s son in the bottom quartile, although he probably is in the 3rd quartile on CR, among admitted students. The ACT math score of 30 is in the middle of the 25%-75%ile range of 27-32. The OP’s son’s ACT English+writing score is low, though. On the other hand, the composite ACT score (29) is in the middle of the range among admitted students, 25%-75%ile from 27-31. The science score of 32 is comparatively strong, and a good sign for an engineer. </p>

<p>Engineering admits at the University of Michigan are almost certainly stronger than the class on average. Still, I think Michigan qualifies as a school in the “reach” category. The out-of-town internship could be valuable in raising admissions chances.</p>

<p>I’d suggest applying to UT Austin and Texas A&M. My understanding is that the top 8% are guaranteed admits, but this doesn’t fill the entire entering class? (Texans, can you clarify?)</p>

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<p>^ As far as I know, that fills UT’s entire freshman class. Since that school is the flagship U most want to go there.</p>

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<p>That’s really rough, Erin’s Dad, considering the variation in schools across Texas. A student could be in the top 15% somewhere and be really, really good. Or even further down than that. California has a guaranteed UC admissions system, I believe, but the guarantees don’t fill all the places there, as I understand it.</p>

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<p>The variations in the schools is one reason why the top X% is used. It’s the only chance some students from poor schools have a chance of getting in to the state flagship. CA does have guaranteed admissions to the UCs but not a specific UC - the student just gets told which one s/he got into. With UT you’re talking about once school. Each state handles it differently.</p>

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<p>I favor a top Y% model, where the top Y% across the state do not completely fill up the public university, and there is some additional room available for strong students at very competitive schools. It appears from other commentary on the thread that Texas A&M follows this pattern?</p>