How to guide my child?

Parent Cafe
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First post here, but I’ve been browsing and reading for a few weeks. Hopefully I picked the right forum for this post.

First the background info…

We live in OH and my child attends a small rural school. Believe it or not, K-12 are in one building with about 50 students per grade. As you can imagine, there are limited opportunities in terms of ECs. We don’t even have a football team. I don’t believe there are any AP classes. Child was home-schooled through 7th grade and enrolled at in local school district for 8th. So next year, he will be freshman. This year’s grades were a couple B+ and the rest were A- and A. He excels at reading/language and (relatively speaking) struggles a bit with math. He wants to go to college and would prefer computer science or something in the engineering track, perhaps mechanical or electrical. He does well on homework but struggles with testing so I’m not expecting superb ACT or SAT results.

He has no hooks. Has taken several years of piano and does OK, but it is not his passion. Likes sports but is not an exceptional athlete and is physically small in size. Loves to read and remembers all sorts of crazy facts & trivia. Closest thing he may have to a hook is a strong work background. He has raised animals (cattle, turkeys, chickens) as well as baled hay and split firewood.

Our family comes from a blue-collar background. Other than one uncle, nobody from spouse’s extended family has ever gone to college. On my side, other than one uncle, I was the first. So we aren’t really into the whole “travel across the country and enjoy your college experience” scene or “become a well-rounded” person philosophy. To us, college is more a stepping stone to a sustaining, enjoyable career and a degree should be obtained as efficiently as possible. But don’t get me wrong, if the best fit for our child is on several states away or on one of the coasts, then that is OK, too.

Our EFC looks like it will be about ~14k. Realistically, we can probably cash flow about a third of that. All our savings are in retirement accounts with nothing set aside for college. I’ve played around with net price calculators and once room and board is figured in, I am struggling to see how this can work without a lot of debt that we are not in favor of.

I guess, my question is, how do I guide my son and direct him to schools that may be a good fit? How does one go about finding colleges with engineering programs that offer good financial aid to a bright but not superb student?

Since we live in OH, one thought I’ve had is to potentially direct him down the college credit plus track where he can take classes for dual high school and college credit at local community college. If he did this as high school junior and senior, he could probably obtain 30-60 college credits and get a lot of basic classes out of the way and paid for by the state before high school graduation. There was actually a girl that graduated from his high school this spring that graduated from the local community college two weeks earlier than she did high school!

The other thing is, the same local community college has firm transfer agreements in place with a relatively local (40 minute commute) but less than stellar state university.

Ultimately, this is all his decision to make but I’m hoping to set to tone and gently guide him in a direction that will ultimately conclude with a good degree in a field he likes without a lot of debt.

Input appreciated. :slight_smile:

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If your state university has an accredited engineering program , AND you can afford to send him there, then I would do all that I could to guide him to the dual credit/ CC path, IF he can handle the classes. The first priority is to find a safety college that you CAN afford.

Engineering requires a LOT of math and physics classes and is usually one of the most rigorous majors so it may not be the right one for him.

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UC has a fantastic co-op program for engineering, if that’s what he ends up pursuing. I believe they give merit money so it could be affordable. I would definitely look into the dual-credit program. I think that’s a fairly new program so I’d make sure that at schools like UC, all courses will transfer, etc.

However, since he is just going to be a freshman, I would not talk much about college at all. Let him explore his interests and see what happens. Focus on that, and keeping a good GPA. It’s a long way from 8th grade to senior year. Good luck to you!

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UC? what college is that?

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University of Cincinnati @menloparkmom

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I agree that it’s early for specific suggestions of schools, but definitely not too early to think about dual enrollment and grades and test prep (a National Merit Commended scholar, for example, can attend Wright State on a full ride with books and everything included).

Also not a bad time to try to put aside the annual amount that you’d be putting aside while he’s in college if you can - that would effectively double what you can contribute and with modest loans might close to gap to the $14K you’d be expected to pay at many schools (though many will not use that number, they will gap…our state schools are mostly like that unfortunately).

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Yep, since the OP is from Ohio I just figured she’d recognize that but I should have clarified.

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Computer science and engineering both involve a lot of difficult math. Is he genuinely interested in those fields or has he heard they are a career that ensures money? Sometimes kids fix on certain careers early on because they don’t really know about the work options out there.

Doing college classes and then applying as a sophomore or even junior can affect financial aid negatively, unless it is through the kind of transfer agreement you refer to. I am honestly not sure if dual enrollment will have a negative effect but it is something to ask. You will want all the aid you can obtain.

That said, doing two years at community college may indeed be the best way to make college affordable, and a transfer to a school with an agreement in place with the cc might work really well. You say the state school near you is mediocre: are there other state schools that might be a better fit? (I understand that living at home can save money.)

Overall, I agree with the idea that this is a bit early for your son to be thinking about all this, but that doesn’t mean you can’t start. Many of us highly recommend the book and website entitled “Colleges that Change Lives” by Loren Pope. Pope also wrote “Looking Beyond the Ivy League” that has good info, if a little dated, on many schools. CTCL also has fairs around the country.

The biggest mistake some guidance counselors make is to steer kids to state schools for affordability. Financial aid at privates can sometimes surprise you.

In other parts of the country, the experience working with animals and baling hay will certainly interest admissions, who use geographic diversity in admissions decisions and who are also increasingly interested in kids who work- and to some admissions officers, that is novel work! (I’ve done it myself…)

It is hard when there are not many extracurriculars in the school. Maybe you can advocate for that. My kids went to a smallish school and they had plays and band (and eventually chamber music) and chess club, a few others. Alternatively, if your son develops interests, maybe you can find some resources outside of school.

The school sounds relatively low stress which is great. High school years are a great time to explore interests, make friends, and get to know one self. Tell your son he doesn’t have to worry yet about big decisions on college and career. In fact, often students don’t pick majors until after the sophomore year.

If math is not his strong point, let him know there are plenty of careers/jobs out there, yes, even for English and philosophy majors! Companies are hungry for people who can write. College does not have to be vocational in a narrow sense of the word.

If he really wants a direct vocational path, community colleges offer two year degrees and certificates, but it sounds like your son (and you) want a 4 year school with liberal arts and sciences.

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My recommendation is if you. Can cash flow around. $5,000 then start saving that now. That would give you $20,000 by the time he graduates HS. That won’t affect need based aid at all and may get you through two years ($15,000/year with continued cash flow) before you need loans.

Being well read is a great start to standardized tests. Prep books can help with math. Target a 32 for full-tuition options as some public schools. Dual enrollment is a great option. Start with one course and see how he does.

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We live in Indiana. My son also attended a small rural school (also K-12 in one building (with 2 wings), also without a football team, and that had an annual ‘drive your tractor to school day’).

His HS only had 1 AP course - AP Calc AB, but did offer several dual credit courses from a local junior college. He wound up taking, I believe, 7 courses that provided him with dual credit.

He was involved in some ECs - mainly in the performing arts because that’s where he made good friends that he got the opportunity to spend time with, but those had little impact on his eventual college choice.

I ‘hovered’ throughout his high school years to ensure he was performing his best academically (in fact he once later said that he only did as well as he did in high school to keep me from nagging :slight_smile: ) I also spent time helping him prep for his standardized tests and had him go to a tutor for help him prep for subject tests.

We started doing research on college his sophomore year and that’s when we did our first tour.

Many of the schools we looked at were ranked in the top 10 in engineering and we could have made most work financially (such as our in state option of Purdue), but it was via an internet search that I found that based on his grades and test scores he could attend the University of Alabama tuition free.

Although he may have got substantial aid from other schools, none were so transparent about what qualifications were needed and it wasn’t worth our time or money to play the scholarship lottery.

Although he initially applied to Alabama as an academic and financial safety, he found reasons to eliminate most of the other schools he looked at, but never found a reason to eliminate Alabama.

Since he’s been there he also completed an internship after his freshman year and has now completed a 3 semester co-op leaving very little to pay.

Alabama was not a school I had any familiarity with (we had never been in the state before we toured the school). It all just came from internet searches of his GPA and test scores to determine where he could qualify for the most aid.

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We are also in OH. Another similarity is my D. was also in small private k - 12, all in one building and her class had only 33 students. She had APs, but limited number, they allowed APs only in junior and senior years and only 3 / year. Although. later on while at college, she discovered that her regular HS classes were taught at the higher level than APs at other schools. Her school was not rural though. The other similarities include that she also “has taken several years of piano” and ended up with the music minor at college. She was also pretty good athlete and while several college coaches were after her, she decided that Varsity college sport was not for her. She also had a goal of attending in-state UG. Her older Brother went to Cinci and was in co-op program and it worked wonderfully for him. There are other OH colleges with co-op in engineering, like OSU and Toledo. My knowledge in academic engineering specifically is limited, none of kids are engineers. However, my H. and vast majority of our friends are engineers. I can tell you that for engineering the name of school does not matter, most engineering firms hire from the local college, no matter how obscure or low ranked, it works for them very well. In regard to CS, as one in a field myself and having worked for 9 very different companies, I can tell you that the IT / IS departments also hire locally and do not care about the name of the UG at all. Both jobs pays well.
Well, D. ended up at Miami (Oxford). Out of the in-state and one OOS (MSU) schools that she applied, 2 were the clear winners in regard to the Merit Scholarships. Miami offered full tuition Merit and Case Western that is very well know for engineering, offered very high Merit Scholarship after which our balance was only $5k / year. D. had absolutely wonderful 4 years at Miami and achieved all of her goals well beyond our expectations.

One word of caution. If person struggles somewhat with math, he better overcome it or stay away from engineering. CS would be much better fit for somebody who is not that “mathy”.

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<<<
The other thing is, the same local community college has firm transfer agreements in place with a relatively local (40 minute commute) but less than stellar state university.
<<<

If your child earns his AA while in high school, then he would and (and SHOULD not) be a transfer student. He will be an incoming freshman with junior standing. That is a big difference for aid and merit.

Since you have an unaffordable EFC, you probably don’t need a school with “good financial aid,” because they will still expect you to pay your EFC.

When you were playing with the NPCs, were you including any contributions to retirement accts? Those will get added back in as available income.

Sounds you your child will need to apply to schools that give HUGE merit scholarships for stats…which cover tuition and more. Then your contribution and a student loan can cover the rest.

Has your child taken the PSAT yet?

You can pay about $5k per year…which is about 1/3 of EFC for a school that meets need. The situation will be worse at most school because they don’t meet need. That is what you have to work with.

Encourage your child to practice for the ACT and SAT…the best scores can mean lots of merit.

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Ohio has some very good public universities (like the rest of the Midwest). I wouldn’t waste too much time on far away colleges where your son would be an outlier in many ways. Since your son “struggles a bit” with math but likes computer science now is a good time for him to work on those skills. Fortunately math is an easy subject to self study and use online materials. You need to find out where your son sits on the Bell curve. Is he gifted, bright or above average? Your school population is too small to have the numbers for being first, next, whatever indicate how strong a student he will be in college. Likewise community college courses are not the same caliber as OSU and other Ohio U’s.

Discuss optimizing your son’s education with your school. The teachers will have attended college and your school needs to meet standards. Do not let the east coast CC posters lead you down their path. Their region is different in choices available.

btw- if I had finished my post when I started writing it it would have been second instead of after several. Regarding the math- your son will undergo many changes in the next three years, the time he will be considering where to apply to college. By then he will know if math related majors suit him or not. I wish I had saved a long online article about computer science I read that told about the importance of math in CS. This is for software developers (software engineers- job title depends on the company from my son’s experience) and not the many information technology, programmers out there. The science, not business type degree. Advanced math helps with thought processing, thinking outside the box. Also- that article had a nice chart about where different computer languages are used- different companies in different countries favor different currently popular ones. There is no one computer language to learn for the future, developers learn as they go once they understand the science behind them. Business majors involving computers is an entirely different field than computer science.

Who knows- your son may get those fundamentals he struggled with and do fine with future math. Or, his strengths and other interests may determine a different path. Good luck and enjoy the journey. Don’t forget to involve him in any decision making.

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None of the Ohio publics cost anything like $5k a year though, unless the student commutes, @wis75 . None meet full need and in this case even if they did that would be 3x what OP can pay.

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My son majored in computer science and there was lots of (difficult) math.

This forum has had quite a few students in college for engineering who are struggling or failing because math is not a strength, but they wanted a secure job and engineering or CS seemed to be the ticket.

mom2collegekids answered the question about whether dual enrollment means less financial aid since the student might not be an entering freshman…

Again, don’t discount small (or large for that matter) privates! But, in a couple of years …:slight_smile:

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Tuition for Wright State (local to me) is <$9K. There’s a little over $10K for room, board and fees. Put that $5K away each year now. Have your S take loans ($5.5K as a freshman) and that will pay for tuition and 1/2 the rest. Then a summer job and work study and he should be able to do it. There are also a number of merit scholarships:
http://www.wright.edu/raider-connect/financial-aid/first-year-scholarships

Do this for all the OH regional Us.

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Many parents in Ohio have found the CCP program helpful. While students can enroll in the program as early as 7th grade most begin taking the courses in their junior year. As a result, many enter their first year of college with enough credits to be considered a sophomore, thus eliminating one year of tuition and making college affordable. I recommend having preliminary discussions with the school’s guidance counselor about the program. If you believe this person may not be helpful, check out the state board of education website. The CCP credits will transfer to any public 4 year college in the state. Many of the in-state private colleges have rules and guidelines as to the criteria for accepting CCP credits. Information is available on the private colleges’ websites. As a college professor, it takes a special type of junior to succeed on a college campus. By the time most students are seniors, they tend to do well in the courses. 7th-10th graders in the Ohio program are extremely rare. As another poster has stated, kids change over the course of the 4 years. Knowing your child is key in the CCP decision. The program has been a benefit to many high school students in the state

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What math has he taken?

What is his freshman schedule?

Has he done any engineering or CS projects before?

Thoughts
If I were you, this summer I would give him a psat test to understand roughly where he is.

I would also be sure he is reading this summer. 20 minutes per day is fine.

I would also investigate clubs he may be interested in. Especially if they relate to CS, engineering, or math.

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Thanks for all the feedback; I didn’t expect that many comments. I will quote and respond to some posts directly but there were a few common points made that I will address here.

When I said he struggles math, I was making a relative comparison to language/reading where he excels. In some ways, I think math is a bit of a handicap from our homeschooling days (one of main reasons we went back to public school) but I think that is mostly our fault and hopefully not due to a lack of ability on his part. But, in public school, he also had a brand new 1st year teacher who, frankly, we heard some other parents complain about. Throughout the year, he had a sub for about 8 weeks because teacher was on maternity leave. Sub did little in the way of teaching but rather just gave assignments. He will have a different math teacher next year so I am anxious to see how he progresses. I also mentioned that he generally tested poorly. This was especially evident in math but he can be somewhat lazy when it comes to studying. We are trying to work on this and hopefully he can mature in this area.

Coupled with my math comments, some were concerned about a possible engineering track and wanted to know if this is truly what he wants. I think it is. If not engineering, then some STEM-related field, or perhaps engineering technology if math does become an issue. For example, just last evening at dinner, I asked if anybody (kids and spouse) knew what Thermite was and how it is used. (I just read a cool article about it.) He said he had previously watched youtube videos on how to make it and stated it is composed of aluminum powder and rust. A year ago, he went to a week long church camp and came home with a brochure for a regional, faith-based university. At that point, he scanned through the list of degrees offered and announced that is where he wanted to attend and study computer science.

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(Doesn’t this forum have a proper quote button to respond to individual posts?)

compmom wrote, “Overall, I agree with the idea that this is a bit early for your son to be thinking about all this, but that doesn’t mean you can’t start. Many of us highly recommend the book and website entitled “Colleges that Change Lives” by Loren Pope. Pope also wrote “Looking Beyond the Ivy League” that has good info, if a little dated, on many schools. CTCL also has fairs around the country.”

and

“The school sounds relatively low stress which is great. High school years are a great time to explore interests, make friends, and get to know one self. Tell your son he doesn’t have to worry yet about big decisions on college and career. In fact, often students don’t pick majors until after the sophomore year.”

Thanks, I will check out your references. And yes, the local high school is pretty low stress, non-competitive. In this conservative area, it has a good reputation and there are actually lots of families who open enroll in our district.

Other than a couple off-hand comments, he isn’t really worried about it. I’m more interested in setting the tone and offering reasonable guidance when the topic comes up. Believe it or not, he knows about Stanford, MIT, and Case Western. Two of those are non-options and the 3rd may be a reach.