This is my first real post here on CC, so please go easy!
Husband and I are both professionals (nurse practitioner/engineer) and have a 16 y/o daughter who is a great kid, not mixed up in all the normal high school drama and hype and really loves school. She is #15 out of 700 and decided on her own this past year to start the IB diploma program offered at her school because it just suits her style of learning and what she wants to get out of school. She got a 180 on her PSAT going in completely cold and is currently in a test prep program.
For ECs, she is passionate about photography and is in preparations to get her tax ID, etc. to open her own business (she has been paid for numerous photo shoots already). She has been told by several pro photographers that she has a great eye, great potential. She taught herself how to shoot on manual mode when she was 14 and just took off with it. She did a 2 week intensive photo camp this year and her comments on her portofolio by her instructors were very encouraging. For other activities, was in varsity orchestra up until this year but is quitting for her jr year (I know, I know!..but there was a huge issue in the orchestra department this year, all three instructors are gone, long long story, she wants to explore other ECs) and is in German club (qualified for state competition this year) and photography club.
We have saved for college and will be able to do about $20-30K a year which puts her in solid for most in-state options, some out of state options and definitely not going for the Ivy league schools since we are not fans of a huge debt load and our financials will not qualify her in any way for need based scholarships. She is a solid student, but I am not sure if she will be able to pull off NM scores and get a huge merit scholarship.
On any given day she is all over the place as far as considered majors: commercial photography; German studies/education (would maybe like to teach?); health sciences (occupational therapy, is interested in epidemiology as well).
We would love for her to have a narrowed down list of schools so we can start some visits this spring, Any ideas, thoughts on how to encourage/guide a kid who is all over the map for possible majors, wants to go out of state (looking at schools in NC, Virginia, etc.) ??
I don’t think she really needs to narrow the list of schools for another year. Visit KINDS of schools this year – LAC, large unis, instate, OOS, rural, urban – to see what feels most comfortable to her. The list will narrow itself.
What state are you in?
For your budget and your D’s stats, your best options may be limited to public institutions in your own state.
UVa, W&M, and UNC-CH are all way over your budget at OOS rates.
Private schools will be even more expensive.
If she thinks she’d like a smaller college, consider UNC-Asheville, which costs $30K+ for OOS students.
The SUNY system also has relatively low OOS rates.
I agree with previous post. Take a road trip and visit “types” of schools… small private LAC’s, big publics, city campus, beach campus, rural, isolated, college town, etc. Make sure all the schools you visit are in budget according to the net price calculator. She can use those experiences to search and consider other schools. Remember that you have time after acceptances come in. You can visit the top favorites then.
Keep in mind that it’s normal for the list to evolve even into the application season. It’s normal for kids to really not know what they want to study.There is a lot of growth and maturity happening that junior year. IMHO, it’s a waste of time to start narrowing the list now. She can start narrowing in the Spring but don’t be surprised if even then, where she actually submits applications to in the Fall doesn’t totally match her Spring list.
Oh, and I’m assuming you’ve already run the Fafsa estimator and gotten an idea of what your EFC is. I just mention this because if your EFC is matching what you think you can pay, a full needs private school might possibly be in reach. Of course, if it estimates much higher then you are right, instate publics or high merit OOS schools are key. They do exist though. There are OOS privates that can cost 20-30K with merit (and you don’t have to be first in the class to qualify.) You just have to look beyond what is commonly on the radar.
It’s too early to try and come up with specific colleges, especially since she will have to cast a wide net for merit scholarships. But I agree that taking some road trips to see what big, vrs small colleges can look like is a good idea.
Dont make the mistake of taking her to a reachy-reach tip top college [Yale, Brown, etc,etc] as they are too easy to “fall in love with”.
Let us know how she does on the real PSAT in Oct [ I take is she is a Jr this year, correct?] and what her SAT scores are.
If she nails the PSAT and her score is higher than the NM cutoff score for your state, that opens up hundreds of possible colleges where she could win 1/2-full Nation Merit tuition scholarships. see below
I’m now helping a rising senior with her college application/selection process. She sounds a lot like your daughter, except that a difficult family situation and health issues have taken a major toll on her grades. Her interests are also all over the board, from science oriented (nutrition, physical therapy) to art (art history, interior design.)
What we’ve done is to visit every in-state option that fits her criteria in terms of affordability and a choice of majors. That’s an important consideration for a student who has diverse interests. Comparing campuses helped her define what she wanted in a school and what she didn’t; some of it came as a surprise to her. For example, she was somewhat negative on a school I thought would be a good fit because she spent a few summers staying in its dorms for cheer leading competitions, and she didn’t like either the dorms or the campus. During an official visit, she discovered that the dorm has been renovated, and what she thought was the campus was actually an administrative area not frequented much by students - and she loved the area devoted to classrooms and labs. The school is now on top of her list. Another school moved up on her list after we discovered the extensive support services it offers to kids like her - “first generation” students with limited access to information about colleges. To broaden her options, I also urged her father to take her to a couple of popular “match schools” out of state. That also surprised her, because she discovered that she liked schools located in fairly rural, exurban areas, a bit of a revelation to a city kid.
I believe this young lady will stay instate, at our state U. But looking at schools, talking to other kids during campus visits, speaking with tour guides and campus representatives has really opened her eyes to opportunities and helped clarify her preferences. She’s going into the application process much better informed, and very much more excited.
If she’s graduating #15 in a class of 700 and gets good SAT or ACT scores, she could be eligible for a large merit scholarship at University of Miami and Syracuse University, which have great photography programs and also a wide variety of liberal arts majors.
Thanks so much everyone for the replies! We are in Texas and she does not want to stay here…she loves the mountains of NC and also parts of the East Coast.
"Dont make the mistake of taking her to a reachy-reach tip top college [Yale, Brown, etc,etc] as they are too easy to “fall in love with”.
I learned that lesson the hard way. She was seriously thinking about Boston University and we scheduled a visit while we were up that way this summer. When I realized there were really no merit scholarships to think of we had to sit her down and have the talk. It really stinks…“I’m sorry we have not saved 60K a year for you…”
I guess my main question is how to guide a kid who seriously has the grades and stats for hard core science/math, etc. but has a passion for an art like photography? Would you pay for your child to major in photography or would you also require them to have a more steady backup career?
A photography career does not require going to college and will hinder the career if college is a financial burden or the money would have been better spent enabling the career. (google froknowsphoto and then take a deep dive into his website). If photography is the goal, a better avenue might be to assist an experienced photographer, take photos to build up one’s portfolio, and establish contacts in the industry. (sounds like she is well on her way to doing this already) No degree required.
Tons and tons of kids don’t have their career goals set at age 17/18. I agree that you should visit the schools that are good financial/academic options and see where things take her.
A friend is a professional photographer. He told me one time he had a choice in college between majoring in photography or finance, and he was happy he majored in finance so he could afford to do what he wanted (on the side). He is now a retired civil servant loving his life.
Photography should and could be her minor/ passion.
Hopes of having a well paying career in the “arts” is akin to wishing on a star- there are very few opportunities that pay well.
Just as having the college $$ talk is important, having an early talk about viable career options is also vital.
If wishes were horses then my DS would have loved to major in music- his passion- instead of GeoPhysics.
But he realized early, because we were realistic with him about $$, that he would have to pick a career where he could support himself.
So true! Funny you should mention this…she has great potential to be an an engineer and actually loves building, designing, measuring. But having watched her dad (engineer) painfully work his way out of a mid-career layoff she wants nothing to do with engineering. She definitely wants a career with a low risk potential for layoffs. Not sure if that exists, but it is something she considers.
True and not true. We know several “moms with cameras” who take payment for senior pictures and such and they call themselves photographers. I can truly see the difference in their work vs. my daughters. Some of them edit so much the pictures look fake. Also, she gets the great shot from the start and requires minimal editing because she knows the science and the math in operating those fancy lenses. While my daughter does do some portrait photography, her instructors have really raved about her product and lifestyle photography that could serve her in a career taking photos for advertisements, etc. On the other hand, I DO really see what you are saying and this is the major reason I would not be a fan of her majoring only in photography. I don’t see a steady career with benefits, stability, etc. I do, however, see a flexible career for her with tons of portability and a true passion for what she is doing.
So do I encourage her to follow this passion of hers OR encourage a more lucrative, stable career that would afford her the time and $$$ to pursue this as a passionate serious hobby? We have had deep discussions about both of those paths…will be interesting to see where it turns out.
This is what I have been encouraging her to do, but I feel like I’m encouraging her to sell out because it’s the safe thing to do. Tell me more about your friend, how much photography does he get to do and does he doe it on the side as a side career? Does he feel he gave up on his dream or does he feel thankful he has had the opportunity to keep photography as a fun passionate side hobby?
“encourage a more lucrative, stable career that would afford her the time and $$$ to pursue this as a passionate serious hobby?”
the later, imho.
ESPECIALLY if she wants you to go to college. She doesnt need to go to college to do what she already knows how to do quite well. But NOT getting a degree, while she has the chance, would be very bad for her future earnings potential.
She is only 16? 17?
And does not have an adults judgement or perspective. So its you job to give it to her.
Kids often DO change their mind about majors once they are in college and have the chance to discover subjects that they have had little or no prior exposure to.
I would just note that a degree in photography could lead to lots of jobs other than being a free-lance photographer.
I think this comes down to making some kind of evaluation of how talented she actually is, and how much she wants to be a photographer. I definitely get this (one of my kids is a composer, and the other wants to be a writer)–it’s a tough choice.
I should’ve added from the start that she has seen this mindset mirrored in my career. I recently took a part-time job as an NP with a large company that affords me 100% flexibility and great pay because it allows me the chance to be home on the days I want to be home and work my hours around my family and my volunteer work (which is a true passion for me). She sees this played out every day now and this is what is guiding a lot of our conversations. I think she would be great in Occupational Therapy which pays pretty well and allows for flexibility and many many different career paths…she could do independent photography work on her days off.
I’m copying and pasting this thread from upstream for emphasis. Its worth reading twice.
" photography career does not require going to college and will hinder the career if college is a financial burden or the money would have been better spent enabling the career. (google froknowsphoto and then take a deep dive into his website). If photography is the goal, a better avenue might be to assist an experienced photographer, take photos to build up one’s portfolio, and establish contacts in the industry. (sounds like she is well on her way to doing this already) No degree required."