D still undecided any final thoughts please

Parents Forum
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<p>We are now finishing up our list of colleges to visit and apply to and my D is still undecided about what she wants to study and this has made our college search long and she is extremely frustrated.</p>

<p>She has gotten some suggestions from her GC and some teachers. She has taken the Briggs test and she leans towards the creative side. I have gotten some suggestions here as well, which I have shared with her.</p>

<p>I have suggested that she focus on schools that offer a broad amount of majors as well as flexibility to allow for change. We also want to focus on state schools or privates that may offer some merit as we would not qualify for FA.</p>

<p>Her stats so far
95.9 Weighted GPA mostly AP's college level and honors courses. I don't know what this translates to on a 4.0 scale.
School does not rank.
31 ACT
Part time job retail
2 years of volunteer working with disabled children at equestrian center
Stage crew for productions
Video production crew for events and productions
Will do Film internship during senior year</p>

<p>Her interests: Film, Physics, Geoscience, Astronomy/Astrophysics, set design, interior design.</p>

<p>So as you can see we are all over the place. I do agree that she is strong on the creative side but also has a love for science and a knack for quickly understanding how things work and building things from scratch. I have suggested mechanical or civil engineering, architecture and industrial design. All of which she has turned down. She does not want to do anything with engineering due to math. Her grades in math fluctuate the most.</p>

<p>During her high school career, her grades had some drops due to health issues and missed school but have not fallen below B levels and she has been able to bring them back up. Sometimes when she starts feeling ill, she gets anxious causing her to lose focus and forget to study for a test or hand in a paper. She has gotten better at managing this but I wonder if she should choose a career path that is busy but not so stressful. She is fine being busy with work she enjoys. Tough to figure this out.</p>

<p>We discussed physics, which she is good at and enjoys but she does not want to do a Phd or teach. Thus, I can only see this working with some sort of engineering. Film by itself is going to be too tough and set or interior design would require a portfolio that she could put together but not as strong as those who have been completely dedicated.</p>

<p>After our recent conversation, she is leaning towards the geosciences (not petroleum) with maybe minoring in film. She liked the idea of filming for documentaries regarding the environment. We heard about this while visiting American. Will this work? I don't know but sounds like an interesting approach.</p>

<p>Because of the above, we have looked a both general and specialized schools. We have decided against the 'technology or film schools" and focusing on these which have both types of majors:</p>

<p>American
Umass Amherst
Northeastern
Washington U in St. Louis
Penn State
Syracuse</p>

<p>We want to consider
UNC Chapel Hill
UVA
Bowdoin
University of South Carolina</p>

<p>I do realize that most of these, except maybe Penn State are the strongest in the fields that she is looking at and that also troubles me a bit. I know if she were certain about either or , we would look at schools strong in those fields. Yes, we also have a short list of safeties, but we will tackle those after we figure these out.</p>

<p>Just looking for feedback and thoughts. Sometimes, someone sees something that we are missing.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>UNC-Chapel Hill is brutally competitive for out-of-state applicants. Are you NC residents? I will also say that WUSTL is a huge reach unless her scores increase. They are notoriously score-conscious, and a 31 falls below their 25th percentile. What about Fordham-Lincoln Center? It’s a small, liberal arts college smack in the middle of Manhattan. It is fiendishly expensive, but she might qualify for a decent merit scholarship. The only drawback might be a lack of chemistry facilities at that campus, but she could take courses at the Bronx campus if she wanted to. They have been restricted by some Homeland Security regulations on Chemistry in mid-town (or at least they were three years ago, when I visited with my elder son). Temple could be a safety, and she would probably qualify for a scholarship of some sort. They are relatively affordable, anyway, as a public university, and they have excellent film and media programs alongside solid all-around sciences and engineering. New Orleans has become a major film-production center, and Tulane could be a good school. My son got in with similar stats, but did not receive any financial aid. It would be worth a try. I’ve heard good things about Florida State for film, also, and they would have a full array of science programs. </p>

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<p>I think you are trying to slice the salami too thin by trying to rank schools based on possible majors or strength within departments. Your D has interests all over the place which is great. That’s what college is for. She may discover anthropology or urban planning or genetic counseling or behavioral economics- good fields for kids who are strong in science but variable in math.</p>

<p>So if it were my kid I’d be picking colleges to visit based on the usual criteria- try big, try small, try in-between; figure out what you can afford and how much aid you are likely to get a variety of schools, how close to home she wants to be, frat or artsy vibe, etc.</p>

<p>The rest will sort itself out. Every college on your list will have ample opportunities for stage work, film, etc. She doesn’t need to figure out her life at age 17. </p>

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<p>The daughter of a friend of ours got a degree in Environmental Studies with a minor in film at [Eckerd</a> College](<a href=“http://www.eckerd.edu/index.php]Eckerd”>Liberal Arts College in Florida - Eckerd College), one of the “Colleges That Change Lives”. I also seem to recall another friend whose daughter was involved with similar majors/minors at [Connecticut</a> College](<a href=“Environmental Studies · Connecticut College”>Environmental Studies · Connecticut College). Might be worth a look.</p>

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<p>“She does not want to do anything with engineering due to math. Her grades in math fluctuate the most.”</p>

<p>Interesting that she would consider physics and yet not engineering. I (as an engineer) could be wrong but the math needed for physics might be more rigorous than the math needed for engineering.</p>

<p>Having said that the list of schools you provide seems to be pretty good considering the subjects of interest.</p>

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<p>Physics will often require Calc 1 - Calc 3 and something like Diff Eq; basically the same requirements as engineering. </p>

<p>Most geoscience programs will require at least Calc 1 and Calc 2, many a third semester of math.</p>

<p>There are many design programs that do not require a high school portfolio. You take the frosh year design core, prepare your portfolio from those classes, and apply for admission. If you don’t get admitted, you need to find another major. Some move into the general Bach Design program (if available) and then go to grad school in their chosen design area. Others choose new majors not in design…geography, environmental science, economics, whatever interests them.</p>

<p>In my neck of the woods; Iowa State ,U Minnesota, Kansas, and Nebraska all follow this model. look for some in your area.</p>

<p>If she likes the big school/sports scene… I would personally point her towards a Land Grant school…tons of majors to dabble in before deciding…urban planning, geography, env science, natural resource economics, agronomy, geosciences, meteorology, etc.</p>

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<p>If she doesnt want to do engg math, then she wont want to do physics req’d math.</p>

<p>What is your budget? You have OOS publics that will likely expect you to pay full price.</p>

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<p>How much can you pay per year (so we know how much merit you need).</p>

<p>for instance, if you can pay $35k per year, then your D would need about a half tuition merit award to a private or pricey OOS public. If you can pay $15-17k per year, then your D would need a full tuition merit award, so that your contribution could pay for room, board, fees, books, travel, misc.</p>

<p>PSU is awful with merit. Mostly, just the SHC students get merit…and not much at that.
USCarolna would give merit, but at the other listed schools, I think higher stats are needed. A 31 is good, but it isnt high for UVA, UNC, UWash, etc. No merit would come from those schools.</p>

<p>If you need merit, you need a different list. </p>

<p>what is your home state?</p>

<p>What are the safeties? do those give ASSURED merit for stats?</p>

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<p>First of all, not knowing what subjects to be her focus is no big deal. Few kids do and many who think they do, change their minds. it’s really a moving target. To hop around trying to get the best of the best for the things she has listed as possibles, is really an exercise in futility, IMO. </p>

<p>Your list of schools is fine, though your reaches are quite reachy given your DD’s test scores. Nothing wrong with that as long as you understand that, and have good possibles and certainties on the list.</p>

<p>The concern is finances. Do you really want to even apply to schools where there are NO merit awards and the price is way up there (like Bowdoin) and where the chances of merit are pretty much nil as the school is a big reach just in admissions and there is very little merit money (WashUSL)? Is this a matter of you coming up with the money if you think the school is “good” enough? If you have some real limits in terms of what you can pay, you should look at the list with that in mind. It can be a very hurtful situation if your DD gets accepted to schools she really likes and they offer zero in merit money, and you can’t afford them so you have to tell her at the 11th hour that they are off the table. It’s one thing, if there is a some chance, not minuscule where your DD might be in the running for merit money, but to cast a line where you know there are no fish is a futile exercise.</p>

<p>Temple does have some nice merit money for which she would have a reasonable chance of getting, for instance, and if you are a PA resident, the price is already at a “reasonable” (though not by most state’s standard for nstate) level. What can you afford? Now is the time to start determining this. The likelihood of getting any scholarship money, much less substantial amounts from those schools on your list, (and many are way up there in price) is small.</p>

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<p>Wesleyan is a school strong in film and the sciences, but I think it could possibly be a reach school at this point. It happens to be test optional and meets 100% of need as of recently, but it also happens to be very competitive (only slightly less than WUSTL)</p>

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<p>@shawnspencer‌ The OP has no need, but cant pay the total cost. Can only pay half.</p>

<p>did your D retest in the spring and get the ACT 31? In May your D had lower scores.</p>

<p>you are instate for NY</p>

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<p>since you say that you dont qualify for aid, does that mean that you can pay about half of a private? (about 30k per year?)? </p>

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<p>If she’s undecided about what to study, don’t force the issue. She doesn’t have to have her career mapped out already, and in fact that would be a mistake because you could end up locking her into a path that she’ll eventually decide she doesn’t want to do.</p>

<p>Ask her what she would study if she had complete freedom to choose. When she looks at a university course catalog, which classes excite her the most? Which ones would she pack her schedule with if she had the choice? Can she major in whatever that is? </p>

<p>You sound like you’re trying to pick a very specific career (like “environmental documentary filmmaker”) and then work backwards from there. I would just let her find her own way. She sounds like a very bright, talented young person who could potentially end up in a variety of different fields. As for choosing a college, I’d focus more on schools that feel like they would be a good fit for her overall, rather than looking at whether they have specific programs. </p>

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<p><a href=“https://secure.tuitionrewards.com/index.cfm?p=schools”>https://secure.tuitionrewards.com/index.cfm?p=schools&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here is a link that may help you sort through colleges with merit scholarships. For example, one of the majors my son considered was at Clark University. You might want to consider schools like that. Others on this forum will no doubt have other ideas about schools from the list.</p>

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<p>Lia…MOST college students switch majors at least one time. Many enter undergrad school as undecided. </p>

<p>I would NOT choose a school based solely on a major. I would pick a school with THAT major, perhaps, but also with many other majors from which to choose. Your daughter might decide to switch. Most do.</p>

<p>Our kid was leaning towards engineering and sciences. She chose schools that had good departments in those areas. She matriculated as an undeclared arts and sciences major. Her school had a very strong core course requirement across all disciplines because they recognized that students might need exposure to various options before declaring majors as juniors. </p>

<p>My daughter ultimately majored in engineering and biology, but she actually loved her core requirements because of the variety they offered. She reports that many of her undergrad friends “found” a new interest and then major because of a core course or two that they took.</p>

<p>You could add any of the schools from your list to the application list. Just keep in mind that both UVA and UNC-CH are very competitive for admissions, and particularly for OOS students.</p>

<p>If finances are a consideration, keep in mind that those OOS publics currently on her list (at least a couple have to be OOS…you can’t be a resident of ALL of those places) will likely NOT provide a huge amount of aid to your daughter to supplement the difference between in and out if state rates. And none of them meets full need anyway.</p>

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<p>Majoring in physics will require as much math as engineering, or more. Some physics majors take real and complex analysis and/or abstract algebra, in addition to the usual calculus, multivariable calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra.</p>

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<p>However, for the undecided student, is it best if the schools have the various majors of interest, and not be difficult to declare or enter those majors. This may actually be a more difficult task than finding a school good for one specific major.</p>

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<p>With those stats you would be considered for good merit aid at University of Rochester and Lafayette College. I’m sure there are other schools out there, but these are the ones i am familiar with. If you need the merit aid, focus on where it is readily available.</p>

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<p>Ok…how much CAN you spend each year. The private schools on your list hover around $50,000 a year, and you aren’t going to see merit aid that is that high. </p>

<p>You mention merit aid as being needed…I will give my opinion about that on your list below.</p>

<p>American- possible merit…</p>

<p>Umass Amherst- are you OOS? If so, iffy, if instate, possible.</p>

<p>Northeastern-they award merit aid to their top applicants. The highest awards go to the VERY top applicants. </p>

<p>Washington U in St. Louis- extremely limited merit aid, and a very competitive school as well.</p>

<p>Penn State- again…are you instate? If you are OOS, not likely. </p>

<p>Syracuse- you might get merit from them but it’s not going to be a huge amount…</p>

<p>On the ones above…if your daughter gets $10,000 in merit on a $50,000 cost of attendance, will that be doable!</p>

<p>We want to consider
UNC Chapel Hill- the only real merit awards are highly competitive. Highly. As is admissions for OOS.</p>

<p>UVA- extremely limited merit aid</p>

<p>Bowdoin- does Bowdoin give merit aid? I’m not sure</p>

<p>University of South Carolina- possible merit. Check their scholarship listings for the criteria for their OOS scholarships which used to reduce tuition to the instate cost. The McKissick and Cooper were the OOS awards when my kid applied there. I don’t know if they still exist or not.</p>

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<p>If she’s really interested in the sciences, she should check out exactly what the requirements are at each school for the majors she might choose. Tedious, but important. Perhaps at one school, the physics major is within the squishier “arts and sciences” department (or whatever) where the requirements don’t include higher-level math.</p>

<p>Did she take or will she have taken calculus in high school? If she gets that out of the way and places out of it in college, that might take care of her math requirement right there, again depending on the school.</p>

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<p>Um…if math isn’t her strong suit…placing OUT of calculus if required, would not be a smart move…in my opinion.</p>

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<p>I don’t think those are stats that will get good merit money at Rochester and Lafayette. I know kids who have gotten those awards, and for the type of money the OP is seeking, the chances are slim from there. Neither schools is more than a match for the OP. Look at the stats for those schools. Good choices, yes, but for that much merit…reach.</p>

<p>I missed that this is a NYer. I suggest adding the SUNYs on the list. There is a near certainty of a $2500 award on an already low cost of SUNY Buffalo and all of the state schools in NY will come in under $30K. </p>

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<p>Physics major curricula are more standardized than most majors. Any worthwhile physics major will require calculus, multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. Sometimes, more advanced math courses like real and complex analysis and abstract algebra may be suggested. Of course, physics courses make heavy use of math.</p>

<p>While many frosh physics majors do place out of introductory calculus courses, they will take many more math courses.</p>