<p>o7 DAD,</p>
<p>Fortuntately many states require divorced parents to pay, and the courts will decide. Why should my taxes go to subsidize kids with rich dads who want to spend their money on their new young wives (young blond golfing wives -- Ok joke).</p>
<p>and yes fortuntatly my D was older when we got divorced so we did address college, car insurance, tutors yadayadaya.</p>
<p>I just want to interject that junior year in high school is very, very important from a college-admissions standpoint. </p>
<p>As difficult as it may be, this young man needs to concentrate on two things: 1) keeping his grades up and 2) prepping well for his SATs and scoring as high as possible. That will give him lots more options next year. It's hard to study when you're distracted, and the timing of the divorce really stinks, but it's important for him to keep his focus on his work. Bravo to you, Mike, for stepping up to the plate. Best of luck to him!</p>
<p>kayf--"subsidize rich dads?" What State do you live in? </p>
<p>There is a very recent CC thread where a stepmom related the continuing difficulties she and her husband have had in getting the biological mom to do what the decree requires concerning college costs. Being a jerk is not sex specific.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fortuntately many states require divorced parents to pay, and the courts will decide
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</p>
<p>Why "fortunately" when married parents don't have that obligation? Is it a continuation of one Ex liking the power to "force" the other Ex to do something that Ex doesn't want to? IMO--that is a great example of wasted anger/power energy. </p>
<p>Instead, the Exs can be a "team" for the narrow purpose of co-parenting. It is like any team effort, do you really benefit by having someone on the team that doesn't want to be there? </p>
<p>My shrink once observed that how you behave after the divorce says a lot about what you really think of yourself. He indicated that the same goes for deadbeats and anger/punishers.</p>
<p>I don't have a lot of experience with divorce; my parents were happily married but contributed nothing toward my college education (and I received not a cent of grant/scholarship/work study money - just student loans with 7-9% interest rates). Based on my personal experience, I think this young man would be better off looking for a school with a "lesser" reputation and lower cost (or higher merit aid). There are some very good schools where you can get a fabulous education that are less expensive and/or generous with merit aid, and I'd rather be there with a smaller amount of debt than at a "prestige" school and saddled with debt. The only way I managed to get through college was to pick a low cost option and work a lot, but it was good enough to launch me into a top law school (and it launched many of my classmates who didn't continue on to grad school into good jobs).</p>
<p>07Dad,</p>
<p>My state, like many others, provides grants for students from low-income households using federal methodology. A student living with one parent with minimal income would qualify even if another parent had high income/assets. As to going to court to get X to pay for child's tuition, I havent had to, but that doesnt show anger or control, it shows concern for child. Its manipulation to discourage the lower earner from seeking legal remedy.</p>
<p>Parents: tell your kid the facts and details of divorce agreement!</p>
<p>At issue is not just the parents' behavior, but the students PERCEPTION of lack of support. Students who have just gone through a divorce (hostility) will avoid even asking or doing anything that the think will create more tension - they just assume the worst.</p>
<p>My child thought that there was no money or provision for college, and started low-balling expectations. We had not told her anything, assuming she was too young. She was greatly surprised to find out that the divorce agreement specified high school costs, college cost and appeal process for decisions. She did not know that specific money was set aside for her schooling. ---- Because we thought she was too young to know.</p>
<p>If you are divorced, your kids are probably assuming the worst -- TELL THEM the exact legal and financial situation.</p>
<p>Once one knows the facts, plans can be made. The not knowing is the larger problem.</p>
<p>kayf--</p>
<p>If your State allows court ordered post-HS support to pay for college, it is a remedy and "go for it."</p>
<p>But, it isn't the norm according to this 2007 article.</p>
<p>
[quote]
According to the ABA Family Law Section Web site: If your divorce occurs under the laws of Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, or Wyoming, you cannot be ordered to contribute toward your kids’ so-called “post-secondary” education--what is more commonly known as “college” or “vocational training.”
[/quote]
</p>
<p>By my count, there are 33 States that don't order post-HS support to pay for college.</p>
<p>As mdoc exemplifies, young adults don't always get help with college from married parents. </p>
<p>Why should a divorced parent be required by law to do something that she or he wouldn't have to do if married?</p>
<p>I've actually been involved in a case where the MOM got a larger share of the community property out of the divorce in exchange for MOM agreeing that she would pay 50% of COA of the "college of their choice" of her two kids. This agreement was entered as part of the decree and both parties stipulated that the college provision would be enforceable as "child support", i.e., by contempt as well as a money judgment.</p>
<p>MOM lived large on the settlement, did not go back to work and, you guessed it, when the kids reached college MOM had to liquidate the remaining property to pay her 1/2 or go to jail.</p>
<p>A high-cost school can work fine if they do a good job of meeting need, and if the family's EFC (based on mom's income) is tolerable.</p>
<p>It's a good idea to have a very low-cost school available as a financial safety in case the student doesn't get admitted to the higher-cost schools with great financial aid. But it doesn't make sense to me to just not try for schools with great aid packages, since they can end up cheaper in the long run if everything lines up right.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As long as I have my soap box out, I think it is entirely wrong that married parents get to <em>choose</em> if they wish to contribute to their children's college funds... whereas a divorced dad (it is almost always the dad) can be <em>forced</em> to contribute via the divorce decree. It should always remain the choice of parents (divorced or married) whether or not to contribute monies to their <em>adult</em> 18+ year old grown children.
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</p>
<p>I disagree VEHEMENTLY. </p>
<p>I think that ALL parents should have to contribute to college costs OR as a matter of national policy we should decide that we should give a free college education to everyone in just the same way as we give a free K-12 education to everyone. It is, IMO, simply unfair to tell kids that the amount of financial aid they receive is dependent upon their parents' income and assets and then say the parents don't have to pay. </p>
<p>In the divorce situation, it's also a question of expectations. If kids grow up in a family in which it is assumed that they will go to college and that their parents will pay for it or at least make a substantial contribution, it is unfair to yank the rug out from under the kids simply because the parents split. That's especially true when the split occurs when the kids are already of high school or college age. The fact you hate your ex shouldn't give you the right to take it out on your kid by refusing to pay for your child's education. </p>
<p>Having gone through one of the world's nastiness divorces, I know from personal experience that too many parents--usually, not always men--use the cost of college as a weapon in the divorce. For example, a father might say I'll let mom move to another state to take a better job, but only if she drops the demand that I pay for part of college.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, too, sometimes NEITHER mom nor dad cares about the kids' education. I think that in EVERY divorce in which the couple has children, there should be a guardian ad litem appointed to protect the best interest of the child(ren). I don't mean just financial either. Too many parents check out of a bad marriage and leave the kids behind to cope with a parent who is an alcoholic or drug abuser, clinically depressed, or suffering from other issues. </p>
<p>Then, of course, there's the second family issue. IMO, no parent should be allowed to walk away from the responsibility (s)he owes to a child and go on to have other favored children. I know a dad whose D from a current marriage went to one of the best private schools in NYC K-12, while dad refused to pay for any portion of her older-half siblings' college educations. (They went to public schools, K-12). That's just not fair, IMO. </p>
<p>If you have a child, you should not be able to walk away from your responsibility to that child (unless you gave them up for adoption or in other very limited circumstances.) I don't think you should be able to do so until that child is fully grown--and that includes the cost of college.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>i was thinking yesterday that he might be a good case to go to a lower tier college that will give him good $$$. <<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Absolutely try to get the real cost of this education down as much as possible. D had a friend whose parents divorced while she was a senior in high school. The college fund? Went for lawyers' fees.</p>
<p>But bad stuff is happening all over the country nowadays that impacts college plans. It was divorce in this case, but it could be dad losing his job or mom getting cancer or whatever. It's not "fair" that some kids have to grow up faster than others do because of circumstances. But life isn't fair...</p>
<p>One thing that helped one kid I know whose parents divorced during her college years was that she was living away from home at college during the messy divorce.</p>
<p>I am the child of a divorce of over 30 years ago. I was a soph in college at the time and had a sibling that was a sr in HS. The judge ORDERED my father to pay our support until we were 22 years of age-a monthly payment . Judge said that would give both of us time to obtain an undergrad degree. Oh, father paid, but only and I mean only up until the time that we turned 22. My b'day falls in the middle of the month--he calculated to the day how much he owed when I turned 22. He paid a pretty penny of child support for that time period as well. So, it can be done--of course, with our economy these days--that's another story. Divorce can be nasty and messy in some cases; we were fortunate to have a judge that looked out for our best interests at that time, in addition to the lawyer.</p>
<p>Baylor (TX) and Whitworth (WA) also are FAFSA only and offer more than $10k annually in merit aid for certain GPA/Rank/SAT combos</p>
<p>you all mentioned FAFSA only schools.</p>
<p>i really don't know what that means. i know what the form is, but i haven't paid much attention to it since i dont imagine that we will qualify for need based aid.</p>
<p>is there a quick way to run numbers through a fafsa like form and get an idea of what they might be expected to pay??</p>
<p>Yes, there are some online estimators that are pretty easy to use. The most user-friendly, in my opinion, is the one at College Board: apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp</p>
<p>It will ask which methodology you want the calculator to use: FM (Federal Methodology), IM (Institutional Methodology) or both. You can do both, but to avoid getting sidetracked you might want to stick to the FM only, since the dad isn't going to contribute and the IM will assume that he does help. FM will assume that only the custodial parent's income and assets are used.</p>
<p>A FAFSA-only school is one that requires only the FAFSA application for financial aid, which means only the federal methodology. The common alternative is a school that uses the FAFSA plus another application called the PROFILE, which follows a different methodology (the "institutional" methodology) to compute the EFC. To make life more complicated, each college that uses the PROFILE can tweak the formula. With the FAFSA, unless you have unusual circumstances (like extremely high medical bills), there is no tweaking.</p>
<p>The reason for aiming for FAFSA schools is that only the income and assets of the parent he lives with will be considered for finaid</p>
<p>The problem is that FAFSA-only schools rarely meet full need.</p>
<p>Plenty of PROFILE schools don't meet full need either, so that's misleading.</p>
<p>Highly selective schools often do meet full need. Most highly selective schools also use the PROFILE. However, using the PROFILE doesn't predict meeting full need, and not using the PROFILE doesn't predict not meeting full need.</p>
<p>Depending on how one's assets are distributed and unusal expenses, one's CSS/PROFILE EFC may be lower than FAFSA. This was the case with us.</p>
<p>Also be careful. Some FAFSA only schools have their own financial aid forms with addititional information required. You need to check the financial aid sections of the FAFSA schools you are interested in to see if they require any other info, and how they consider that information when arriving at a FA package.</p>
<p>Calreader - if a school says they will meet full need and require a PROFILE then Dad's income and assets will be considered.
The determination of need is made by the school. The school could be telling them that they have far less "need" than they actually have if Dad won't pay.
In this case, where they will consider Dad's finances the EFC from the Profile won't be lower than from the FAFSA.</p>
<p>Depending on Mom's finances and whatever they agree to - the prudent thing to do is look for a state school (cheap) that requires only the FAFSA - the EFC will determine need and if the student qualifes for Federal grants and/or state grants that could go a long way to lighten the burden. If looking at a private schools - seek merit scholarships - carefully.
Hence, my advice to look at FAFSA ONLY schools - schools that only consider Mom's finances.
One more hypothetical - If Mom gets "the House" - Mom can be making $50,000 living in a $300,000 house and the FAFSA won't care - the Profile will look at the equity in the home.</p>
<p>Mike - a FAFSA only school is a school that ONLY uses criteria from the FAFSA to arrive at EFC and determine aid.
Aid can be in the form of Federal grants - Pell, SEOG etc or state grants. Also, he will be eligible for Federal loans - Stafford and possible Perkins.
He should count on having to borrow money - the goal shoud be to stick to Federal Loans and stay away from Private loans. Mom can also borrow Plus loans but this should be a last resort - IMO.</p>
<p>Visit - <a href="http://www.fafsa.gov%5B/url%5D">www.fafsa.gov</a> - there is a forecaster on there that you can number crunch.</p>
<p>Another option esp if there is a good and comprehensive community college in the area is to go that route for two years.</p>