How to make an application list?

<p>See? I’m not the most optimistic. lol. I’m really pretty conservative on my “points”.</p>

<p>5 index points for URM? 5 index points could = 5 MCAT points, correct? (Never used index score, oops). Man, wish I were a URM or an AA Male–anything except more adequate preparation for 5 MCAT points!!!</p>

<p>(LOL–mocking the kids at SDN with this post)</p>

<p>kristin, lol. How many threads over there immediately degenerate into that predictable squabble? Uhhhh…most of them. ;)</p>

<p>“I mean, really. Why is it such a big stinkin deal to be a URM? So what, you’ve probably handled more complicated life issues than I realize exist. And you might even be able to speak another language or bring a cool cultural context to the table. But cmon. I got a 29 on the MCAT. I shadowed 10 docs for 60 hours–I’ve spent a day with, count em, TEN different specialties. I know so much more about medicine than any random URM out there but he or she is totally going to take “my” spot at every single school I applied to. This just isn’t fair. If DO were a reasonable alternative, I might think of that. But I have to have an MD, so to escape all this URM favoritism, I’ll just head down to the Caribbean. It’s so much warmer there anyway.”</p>

<p>…wait, that’s just what you meant, curm? HOW DID YOU KNOW THEY WOULD SAY THAT!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Lol, everybody wishes to be something other than they are at times! D and I are watching The Sound of Music right now for the millionth time, and she is ****ed because she could never be cast as Maria. I had to remind her she is not an actress…or a singer. She then says she will produce a version of it like The Wiz was to The Wizard of Oz. I’m not even conjuring up that image!</p>

<p>I’m starting to think as far as applications go, put a map on the wall, blindfold her and give her 20 darts to throw.</p>

<p>edit: LOL@ Kristin</p>

<p>It’s better than being an ORM. Punished in admissions processes AND Hollywood doesn’t like you. But anyway.</p>

<hr>

<p>Different races get different boosts. I remember looking up these numbers at some point. But Mexican-Americans and Puerto Ricans get about half of what African Americans get, and I don’t think anybody else should really count on much of a boost at all.</p>

<p>Ah, here we go:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1024722-do-i-still-have-realistic-chance.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1024722-do-i-still-have-realistic-chance.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Huh, a little number crunching tells me I’m off. Take a look.</p>

<hr>

<p>MCAT bonus if we set White (31.3) as “0”:</p>

<p>Asian: -0.9
Native American: +4.2
Black: +5.2</p>

<p>Cuban: +2.3
Other Hispanic: +2.6
Multiple Hispanic (e.g. Mexican and Cuban): +2.6
Mexican American: +3.3
Puerto Rican: +7.6 (not a typo)</p>

<hr>

<p>GPA/BCPM Bonus when treating Whites (3.69/3.64) as 0:</p>

<p>Asian: +0.01/0.02
Native American: +0.12/+0.21
Black: +0.27/+0.34</p>

<p>Cuban: +0.08/+0.10
Other Hispanic: +0.13/+0.18
Multiple Hispanic: +0.17/+0.28
Mexican American: +0.14/+0.20
Puerto Rican: +0.18/+0.27</p>

<hr>

<p>Converted into Index Score if White (68.2) set to zero:</p>

<p>Asian: -0.8
Native American: +5.4
Black: +7.9</p>

<p>Cuban: +3.1
Other Hispanic: +3.9
Multiple Hispanic: +4.3
Mexican American: +4.7
Puerto Rican: +9.4</p>

<p>It’s better than being an ORM. Punished in admissions processes* AND Hollywood doesn’t like you**.*</p>

<p>I had to laugh at this. My son’s GF is Asian and her bro wants to be an actor so badly. He does have talent, but he does have a concern about limited roles for Asian men. However, he’s a charmer and I could see him making it to the top.</p>

<p>Kristin …your memory is excellent…it is table 24</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>haha, thanks mom2. I wonder how many bonus points one gets for having a sharp memory? Kidding, of course. I really liked that table because it answered that nagging question in the back of my head…“Sure, <50% of kids that apply get in. But how many of those kids are like me? How well do kids like me do?” and I think that table does an adequate job of shedding light on an answer to that question.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure that table contains the only reassuring statistic in the entire MSAR.</p>

<p>The rest of the tables/graphs are interesting too. I like the ones about “where” the switch occurs that more people get in than don’t. For example, it’s at an MCAT of about 30 and a GPA of about 3…6? I think. Those numbers gave me a solid score to aim for (30, which I achieved) when coupled with my GPA. Overall, it was a good starting point.</p>

<p>BDM, Do you think that the following statement may be true?</p>

<p>If a higher percentage of a certain ethnic group pursue a particular path (e.g., medicine), they may be at a disadvantage even though their average number (say, 10*GPA + MCAT) for being admitted into at least a medical school is similar to that of another ethnic group?</p>

<p>An analogy for this: We all know that biology majors have a lower average MCAT score. But we also know that there are higher percentage of biology majors taking MCAT, while fewer percentage of physical science majors or English or Philosophy majors take MCAT. Suppose that only the 10 percents of students in any major are good at MCAT. It is then not difficult to accept that the average MCAT score for biology majors will be lower. This assumes that the test taking skills (I hate to use the word intelligence here as the intelligence is not equal to test taking skills) are evenly distributed among all people.</p>

<p>If, in the previous paragraph, we replace the biology majors with a certain ethnic group (e.g., South Asian Indian), and replace the physical science majors (or English or Philosophy) with another ethnic group, we may see the similar phenomenon.</p>

<p>I want to emphasize that I am not talking about the fare issue. It is fare as the number for being admitted is the same. I just want to point out a possibility that, maybe some poor test takers from that ethnic group still try to get into a medical school while a student of the similar test taking skills from another ethnic group may give up pursuing this career path.</p>

<p>This is just a very wild speculation, and the reasoning could be flawed.</p>

<p>MCAT: It’s possible, but I think the effect would probably show up in MCAT/GPA. Remember, the numbers above are the numbers for eventual medical students – not all test-takers.</p>

<hr>

<p>You’d have to tell a story something like this:</p>

<p>Asian American kids disproportionately take the MCAT and try to get into medical school. This puts them at a disadvantage. Medical schools choose fewer Asians, but they do so kind of arbitrarily – rejecting some of the kids at the top of the pool as well as some of the kids at the bottom of the pool and some of the kids in the middle.</p>

<p>Result: Asian Americans have a lower admissions percentage than Whites, but because that disadvantage manifests kind of randomly, their MCAT scores look similar.</p>

<p>I think this is NOT what happens. But it’s possible.</p>

<p>

You seem to imply that the selection process for Asian kids could be more random than other ethnic group. Why is this though?</p>

<p>Another observation: Many Asian kids are working on a similar area and their achievements are not as varied as other ethnic groups. An analogy from college admission: Well too many Asian kids have ECs in the classical music or math/science competition. But adcoms may only recognize the top 10 percents of the highest achievers in any particular area. In other word, their achievement is too similar in their types. They put themselves into a disadvantaged position under this system because of this. Oh, another observation: It appears more Asian kids try to major in engineering and being a premed. I do not know the pressure for doing so comes from the parents (after all, a very high percents of their parents are in this career) or from the kids themselves (likely both, but most won’t admit it.)</p>

<p>

I need to back-track this after I read your post again. You did not imply this as you said “Ithink this is NOT what happens.” Your argument is kind of like this:</p>

<p>statement A. (your first paragraph) </p>

<p>If statement A is true, statement B will be true.
(B is the paragraph with the label “Result:”.)</p>

<p>I do not see evidence that statement B is true.
A leap of faith: Let’s accept statement B is false.</p>

<p>So statement A is false.</p>

<p>I did notice a disproportional number of Asian kids pursue the medicine field in recent years.</p>

<p>Right, but I think that what happens is that the selection process is not arbitrary – therefore the extra difficulty does show up in the MCAT and GPA. You can see that Asian kids get slightly penalized (actually one index point is quite a bit) in the process. But I don’t think they are harmed any more than that, which I think is what you meant to suggest in your #71.</p>

<p>Could state residence account for a portion of the admissions discrepancy? Many state public Unis give preference to their own residents, and since Asians are not equally distributed among all 50 states…less than 1% in some states, to 12+% in California… they just won’t have much success in applying to say, Utah or South Dakota if they are OOS.</p>

<p>Sure, I think there’s a lot of ways to explain it. But each of those ways should manifest in the numbers, I think.</p>

<p>How about the following attempt to explain this:</p>

<p>Asian kids tend be concentrated in a fewer number of majors (read: those majors perceived as “more practical/marketable,” should they not get into a medical school). Since only a certain percentage of a given major could get a high grade, the Asians put themselves in a disadvantaged position because of their own choices of majors.</p>

<p>One professor once joked that he can tell what major it is when the students walk across the podium during a commencement. (the students from the same major will walk at the same time.) What he meant to say is that, for the first generation of immigrants, they all major in a major that is perceived as very marketable right after college (engineering, business/finance/accounting, economics if it is a top notch college). The next generation: physical sciences. Then, social sciences. Then humanity/literature. Maybe then art history. (Do not remember the details, but this is the gist of this.) </p>

<p>An analogy in the music related ECs: A very high percentage of Asian “music” kids are concentrated on classical music. What is worse is that most of them are also concentrated on only two kinds of major instruments: piano and violin (esp. the former). Their major instruments are not as diversified as most other ethnic group’s. Because only a certain percents of, say, piano players can get to the state level, they put themselves into this disadvantaged position by their choices.</p>

<p>In my area, it is interesting to see that in the all-state orchestra, for many years, Asian students are over-represented for the top 10 chairs for, say, the violin section – We are talking about almost 6 or 7 or (in one year) 8, of the top 10 chairs are Asian kids. Maybe soon they should start to do some “geographical diversification” in order to encourage more kids from a poorer district to get involved with this activity. (Now, most are from the affluent district (read: from families which can afford one of the parents being at home.) Some college-application-savvy families start to “let” their kids, sometimes reluctantly because of their less “economic value”, take other instruments after noticing this disadvantage. The problem is too many parents and youngsters stubbornly believe they are “the best” until they face the reality that there are many others who are either equally good or even better.</p>

<p>Bumping this up.</p>

<p>Quote from Bluedevilmike</p>

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</p>

<p>Okay, she has a pretty consistant score on her FL aamc’s with only #11 left, and testing this coming Saturday. Given she has a month before her score comes out, is it reasonable to start compiling a list based on her aamc average/GPA? Of course then there is the URM factor. How much should she give the “bump?” If she takes BDM’s table into account, she would be stat’s wise okay applying to any school, but at the same time she wants to be realistic with her choices. Assuming 20-25 applications, is there a general breakdown of how to compile the list?</p>

<p>GA: It’d probably be possible to compile a loose list. Be conservative, of course. But bottom line is, start with every school in your home state and pick a few privates that don’t show in-state favoritism.</p>

<p>And you can modify that when the actual score comes back. You’ll want to submit around early June (a few days AFTER the window opens), so that leaves you a couple weeks to modify things if push comes to shove.</p>