@blossom , she doesn’t know that I was talking to him. He recently went through depression so he is just more concerned and just trying to guide the same way you were all trying to give suggestions.
I think you are getting similar advice from most of us:
1)the relationship is most important
2)she needs to be in control (give her the Psychology Today therapist finder link? and leave it at that)
3) if possible have 3rd parties involved
4)find positive things to do or talk about vs negative talk about school and health
5)find a therapist yourself
It is impossible to judge whether she should go to college next year or not. It depends on what happens. But I would decide that through cooperative discussion, not ultimatums. The more you make seeing a therapist part of those games, the more resistant she will be.
I am going to tell you that after the experiences I have had as a parent, I know that the most basic essential thing is that they remain alive. As long as they are alive, all things are possible. If she crashes and burns during senior year, all things are not lost. I am not saying she will. She may be fine, especially if the academic stresses are reduced. I am just saying, sometimes you need to just let things happen because there is no alternative, and then there will be a point where you can actually have an effect.
The therapist she had sounds misguided, frankly. Your daughter may not respond to behavioral approaches. She can peruse Psychology Today and learn about different therapies. Oh- and I would absolutely not involve a sibling.
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I agree…and I’m not sure I would be discussing this with a cousin either.
You and your daughter need to build trust…she needs to trust that you are there for her. And you need to trust that she will work on this.
I think the key is that back and forth…
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I am very skeptical of the previous therapist. In my experience and everyone I know who’s dealt with this type of issue, taking away a teen’s phone is a big no no in this type of situation (it’s their life line). Avoid any “tricking” or lying. It’s important to develop an honest loving trusting relationship so she can trust you. More importantly it sounds like this therapist violated her trust. A therapist as previous poster mentioned is meant to be HER advocate, work with HER and literally keep all work in confidence unless expressly shared by the patient or unless there was immediate concern for harm to her or another. Were these sessions for her alone or “family” sessions? She needs to be afforded opportunity to talk to a therapist alone. I’m not surprised she doesn’t want to see anyone after the last experience.
I would talk to her again gently, say I understand the first therapist violated her trust, but that all therapists are not like that. Find someone who specializes in teens. Tell her she has full control over who she sees and you will find the right person together, but she has to see someone to be properly evaluated for depression because based on what you see, you think she may be suffering from depression and want to make sure. And that if she is, there are options for feeling better, including therapy and medication. Tell her you are worried about her well-being and it has no bearing on school, only your love and concern for her. And I didn’t see anywhere upthread, but I would flat out ask her if she’s had any thoughts of hurting herself. The answer to that would impact my suggestion beyond that point.
Then make an appointment with a psychiatrist who can evaluate her - good ones can tell in 15 min if they’re dealing with depression.
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Respectfully, I don’t think anyone in this board can say she is not depressed or dealing with normal behavior issues based on anything said. Seeming “dull”, shutting self in room, not responding to friends texts, grades dropping (was also mentioned) can all in fact be a sign of depression. She needs to be evaluated by a professional. Until then, I would treat it as potential depression and not a discipline issue. If ruled out, then can take a different tack.
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You have to find a way to her. No pushing or pressure, because at their age they can’t deal with stress. As a parent, speak more with her, and take her out. Maybe she has existential issues or something really bothers her.
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I think you totally misunderstood me. We do restrict where we have to but at the same time we let them have fun that is acceptable for this generation and the culture. We migrated from Asia 25 years ago on work visa.
That’s not the case. We make any decision as a family and there is no alienation involved in this. We do share even financial information with kids and they do know our limits and our financial condition.
I never said she is not really talking to me. It’s just that she’s not that happy in general. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, even her friends expressed that she is dull. They were just thinking that it was the school stress but I feel the stress turned into depression as it started in last October. Even now, sometimes she shows moody symptoms. So I feel even after school stress, she is somewhere not 100% happy, either depressed or lost confidence.
Unless she is in danger, unfortunately there is no way to force her into therapy. It sounds like she had a therapist who was misguided in the treatment approach. Again, provide her with the Psychology Today therapist finder site or better yet, look on that site yourself and find three names for her. Give her the names and step back.
Did anyone at the school contact you with concerns?
It sounds like your family has nice relationships. Continue those, try to have fun together, let your daughter know she can do less stressful classes in the fall and still do well with college admissions.
It is hard to tell moody teen from depressed teen- we all know that! Your instinct as a parent says she needs help but she needs to be able to participate. If she has a PCP she trusts, they could offer medication if you think that might help. She could meet alone with them. Many people lie on the depression screening so it would take a conversation. You could alert the MD to your concerns and they could offer meds. Sometimes with meds, therapy is more effective (and she might go!).
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I’d just like to echo a few things.
Your teen likely wants sone sort of positive connection with you. As you interact with her, I’d focus on connecting in any way you can.
I’m not a professional, but I’m almost hearing you describe social anxiety? Especially the lifelong difficulty with talking with adults? This could make therapy extra scary. A few thoughts:
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Edited to add: based on feedback below, do not do this one: {I wonder if Better Help, or whatever it’s called, where therapy is by text, would be a more comfortable way to start.}
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You could tell her that looking back, you didn’t like that first therapist either. Validate for her that it wasn’t a good experience. Maybe tell her “we need to try again, but if you don’t like the next one after three sessions, we can switch again.” You know how many therapists we ran through before we found a winner? Six. SIX. Ugh, heaven help me, we ran through a lot of them.
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It is ok to screen the therapist with an initial parent session or with a phone call asking a few questions. You can explain your daughter’s previous bad experience and her reluctance to speak with strangers/adults. The right therapist will spend a lot of time building rapport. Like maybe 4 weeks, 6 weeks, more. I don’t think starting with psychological testing is going to kick off the relationship the right way.
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I don’t recommend Better Help. I have heard really bad things about it from my 19 yr old who said friends who used it were unhappy with it and felt like they weren’t talking to real therapists.
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Bummer!
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Agree. Better help used providers names without their permission ( and with inaccurate info) to try to look like they were well staffed. then funneled off the referrals. Slimy organization. Care dash too. Avoid both.
“ For background and additional information - licensed psychologists are listed without permission on the CareDash website to offer clinical services, and the profiles are replete with errors. Prospective clients are funneled from CareDash to BetterHelp. These procedures are harmful to psychologists’ professional practices and public reputations. ”
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When I was looking for a therapist for my daughter, I talked to my friends for recommendations, and she talked to her friends for recommendations. It is so incredibly common these days for teens to go to therapy. This might help your daughter be more receptive if she knows someone who has seen the same person.
Even with that, we went through 3 therapists before finding one my daughter wanted to stick with. This is also extremely common. I think conversations with your daughter normalizing the situation might help.
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Do NOT use an unvetted therapist (and good god, therapy via text?) You’ve got folks with a Master’s of Social Work (not a diss against the profession) who had a 6 week counseling rotation who are getting themselves hired via these apps. Compare that to the training, ongoing professional development AND constant supervision of someone with a doctorate in clinical psychology who is held to high professional standards AND has had years of experience providing therapy.
Yes, the personal connection is important. But finding someone who has been professionally trained with ongoing instruction, lifelong learning in the field- that’s the gold standard. You don’t want someone who is googling to find out “why are HS kids taking ketamine” or “what is an effective intervention for someone with an eating disorder”.
Google is great. Professional training is better.
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I’m a parent of a teen with extensive mental health issues and agree with many of the suggestions that have been made and affirmed above. From my own experience, I will add this:
Don’t take the phone away unless they are doing dangerous things with it (posting/sending inappropriate photos, communicating with older people seeking illegal things, etc.). My kiddo uses their phone as an escape and distraction from anxiety and it actually is a helpful tool. If they have social anxiety, communicating via text, socials, etc. is a great, controlled way to keep up with friends and feel close when depression and social anxiety might make face to face interactions hard.
When you are depressed or have anxiety, having control and agency over your life is important and taking things away can make someone feel less in control. Dangling rewards works for some kids and not others. I could offer my kiddo a million dollars to see their Psychiatrist or Therapist but if they don’t want to go, they won’t go.
You can go to a therapist and should. They have a lot of helpful tips on how to approach things with your kids, approach difficult conversations, let you know if you are handling the situation correctly, what red flags to look for, and helpful resources in your community.
Your kid sounds smart and well read. Point them to some online mental health resources that they might read and engage in. They are some great phone apps too.
Use that vaccine appointment with their PCP to also have them screen for depression and anxiety and have their doc make appropriate referrals to a therapist or write a script if needed. Sometimes a kid with depression needs meds to decrease their symptoms enough to reduce the fog around them enough to make them motivated and willing to engage in therapy and other activities to gain a skill set to manage symptoms. That in turn can sometimes reduce/eliminate the need for meds.
Let them take the lead with senior year classes and collège. Definitely open the door for them to modify their senior year schedule and introduce the idea of attending a CC or 4 year school nearby and living at home. As a possible poly sci major, maybe they want to take a gap year and work the campaign trail for 2024?
Do fun things together and try to connect. Even if it is just snuggling in their bed and watching a TV series together. Provide lots of healthy meals and snacks and opportunities for hikes, biking, etc. Exercise and healthy eating can help ease depressive symptoms.
Best of luck to you and your kiddo. You are already a great, caring parent.
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I think this does come off as a diss. I’m not sure what you meant if you didn’t mean that. LCSWs (Licensed Clinical Social Workers) have extensive training too. They are more available as counselors (along with their sister profession LPCs/LCMHC (Licensed Professional Counselors, Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselors).
A private practice psychologist can be harder to come by for therapy. They are often in clinical settings in hospitals or schools. I know in my area (highly educated part of the country with a teaching hospital) private psychologists are hard to find. Seems most of them are child psychologists who do educational testing.
A Psychiatrist will mostly offer a pharmaceutical solution, but there are a few that do therapy too.
We have had really good experiences with LCSWs and LCMHCs.
Editing to add: Here’s a pretty good basic run down of the different degrees, alphabet soup: Psychologist vs Therapist vs Counselor: What Are the Differences? | Psychology Today
I would not get hung up on what kind of credential someone has after their name. I’d just want someone with availability, that takes my insurance, that specializes in teen anxiety and depression, and that has been endorsed by other professionals or recommended by friends. On the Psychology Today website you can filter by insurance and specialty, but you will have to read through for the endorsements and availability. Find a Therapist, Psychologist, Counselor - Psychology Today
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this
We have always done better with MSW’s and LMHC’s than psychologists.
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I never said that she was not depressed. I have no idea if she is or not. And respectfully, no one on this board can say she IS depressed, including the therapist who was TREATING her, and who, incidentally, people decided to deride after hearing only one part of the one-sided story.
I think it’s unreasonable to immediately suggest OP’s child MUST be depressed when the behaviors she describes can absolutely have other causes. I was simply offering a different interpretation.
The OP asked whether or not she should remove her teen’s phone to force her to therapy because she thought she might be depressed. All the issues listed (dropping grades, hiding out, etc) could be a sign of depression, but could as easily not be. She asked for opinions and as happens you and I may not agree. So be it.
I wish her the best.
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I generally don’t post here at all, and I’m not a parent, but I think I have a valuable perspective (mods, let me know if I shouldn’t be here/post this somewhere else). I’m a current student at a T5 school and dealt with pretty severe clinical depression in high school. I had pretty similar symptoms to your daughter- my (also asian lmao) parents will tell you I didn’t talk to them, I didn’t talk to my friends, I cried all the time, I slept too much, I didn’t come out of my room, etc. When you’re in that state, it’s really hard to reach out to people and really really hard to believe it’s going to get better. I had been doing okay academically and with my extracurriculars (probably helped partially by the fact that this was pandemic time) but I was also very profoundly unhappy.
Just based on the symptoms you listed, it sounds like your daughter is legitimately depressed. You can do one of the screening tests online, the HAM-D is fairly reliable, but it’s pretty unlikely that she’s been dull and unhappy for no reason. So at least check it out. Like some other commenters have said, I would completely back off from the topic of college admissions. It’s possible that it was caused by stress, but the fact is that there are a lot of risk factors for depression/anxiety (of which a period of high stress is one) and you might never know “why”.
I can tell you some things that helped for me, and you can show this to your daughter if that helps. If she doesn’t want to go to a therapist, then you can’t really make her go to a therapist- therapy against someone’s will basically doesn’t help at all [can cite studies on this if you’re interested]. However, I know that there’s a big stigma against it sometimes- especially in the head of someone that’s depressed- that there’s something wrong with you, or that the therapist is going to tell your parents everything, or that you’re lazy. It’s usually not like that. They have very strict privacy policies. Sometimes it’s just nice to have someone to talk to. And like I said, when you’re in that mode, it’s really hard to believe anything will help.
If she doesn’t want to go to a therapist or doesn’t have the energy, meds are also an option. You should talk to your PCP or a psychiatrist about this, although psychiatrists (and therapists now, unfortunately) have long wait times. Modern SSRIs are very safe with well-known side effects and sometimes they really do help. Regardless of this, the average length of a depressive episode is six months, so about half of everyone will recover in this amount of time anyway. Don’t leave it to that, though.
Other than the obvious meds/therapy options, there are other things that help. Encourage your daughter to meet her friends/do things that make her happy. If she has a poor sleep schedule, often it really helps to fix that (circadian rhythm and depression are linked in weird ways we still don’t understand). If she’s not eating regularly, that’s important too. Same with exercise.
Unfortunately, as a parent, if you say these things it can sometimes come off as you not believing it’s “real” or that she’s being lazy. (I remember I felt like my parents didn’t really “get” my depression, maybe because as Asian Americans there’s a big stigma.) None of these will solve the problem, but all of them help a little. Behavioural activation is another big thing- it helps to go outside, to do fun things, to listen to happy music, to do hobbies. (Probably all of this is blindingly obvious to you but I’m saying it for completeness). The last thing I will say is that if your daughter has been expressing both suicidal thoughts and the intent to seriously harm herself you should go to the hospital immediately. Other than that inpatient care usually doesn’t help.
I guess the good news is that it does genuinely get better, and there are ways to help. College is so much better than high school was for me. I sleep more than I ever did in HS. I have a lot more closer friends, and maybe surprisingly for a T5 school, a better relationship with work and stress. There’s a lot more freedom and less pressure to compare yourself with other people.
Feel free to ask any more specific questions or contact me directly. Thanks and good luck.
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A person doesn’t have to be suffering from mental illness to see a therapist and derive value from it. The D may be depressed or anxious. But if she’s not, which is also quite possible, having a therapist who can help her navigate her feelings about what is going on in her life could be helpful. It does sound like the D could benefit from that.
For the same reason, the OP could probably benefit from having her own therapist, which has been suggested. The weight of worrying about a child is enormous on its own. The OP has expressed concern that discipline is at odds with love and a healthy relationship with her D. That’s such a normal and relatable parental tension, and a therapist can also help her understand what and why she’s feeling and how to process that confusion and her feelings around actions she takes.
Finding a good therapist is hard. Doing the work in therapy once you have can also be hard. But almost certainly worth it.
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