<p>My D is trying to decide on a school. Tisch is at the top. We have heard that the academics are very demanding. Is this true? Any current or past Tisch acting/MT students out there?</p>
<p>There are many BFA programs that require SOME liberal arts, not that different than Tisch actually. In fact, one beauty at Tisch is that the liberal arts class requirements are in broadly defined areas. At some BFA programs, you have to take math or a foreign language, for example, but not at Tisch. Basically, you take one Theater Studies course and one academic/liberal arts class per semester. I imagine the level of rigor/challenge at NYU won't be like taking a course at a much less selective college but then again, if your D got into NYU, she is up to this level of academics. Also, she PICKS what she wants to take. There is very wide latitude. My D has not mentioned this being a problem. She also likes the academic classes. </p>
<p>However, what is demanding isn't really the academic classes per se. I think what is very demanding, but not so different at NYU than another BFA program, is that the schedule is very intense. You go to school all day and often have rehearsals every night and on weekends (if in shows) and still need to prepare for scenes, songs, etc. for studio classes and any homework for academic classes. So, I don' think it is so much an issue as how demanding the classes are there but that the entire BFA experience is very intensive (but again, this is true at most BFA schools). I suppose at some BFA schools, the liberal arts classes may be "gut", I don't know. This is going to vary for each individual. But if you got into NYU, you are up to the level of the classes. If you only desire gut liberal arts classes or NO liberal arts classes, then NYU likely isn't the right place. But many BFA schools have some liberal arts and in terms of the level of those classes, it depends on the academic level of selectivity to some degree of the school. My kid would not enjoy a class where no work was required and she didn't learn much and just satisfied a requirement. She just chose her liberal arts classes for the fall and chose topics that she found interesting. She also does not mind writing papers. </p>
<p>The big challenge, again, isn't that the classes are too hard (they aren't for her anyway), but that the schedule for BFA students is highly intense and not like what kids would have who attend a BA school (which is also demanding but the hours are not the same). My response in a nutshell is that attending Tisch is demanding, but not because of the academics but because of the entire program....the training, the academics, the production work and the time involved to get the most out of it all. </p>
<p>Also, who is telling you that the academics are demanding? Those IN the program or those who do NOT attend? My advice to you would be as to anyone who gets the skinny on a school from outsiders......it is crucial to meet with current students and not rely on heresay or others' perceptions. Talk to MANY current students, rather than just one, also because each person's experience will differ and may not mirror what yours will be.</p>
<p>The level of difficulty of courses in the liberal arts depends on what types of classes she'll take. The best advice for Asaka would be for her to take courses that she's interested in; in freshman year, however, she doesn't have to worry about choosing...her liberal arts requirement will be two semesters of Writing the Essay (Tisch Core Curriculum), and her theatre studies will be Intro to Theatre Studies and Intro to Theatre Production. Though there are some students who like Writing the Essay, in my experience a lot really don't like this expository writing requirement because it's just a weird sort of writing and it gets soo annoying, especially the lectures (how can you have a lecture for a writing class? Hmm...). She might like it, though...but don't be surprised if she's calling complaining about it, haha. Not that it's hard...it's easy to pull off a B, but it just takes time writing things out and it's just augghh I'm so glad it's ending after this month. But she's defs going to love her studio obviously, and there are parts of the introductory Theatre Studies courses which are good. However, the real stuff happens after freshman year, when you get to pick your own Theatre Studies/Liberal Arts (in the College of Arts and Science) from a wide variety of options. I'm really happy about the upcoming semester because in addition to being in the studio I want to be in, I get to also take liberal arts courses in the CAS that I'm interested in and also that will enrich my experience here. So, even though freshman requirements, like at most colleges, might be a bit aughhh, after freshman year there are options, which makes it sooo much better and interesting. That's why I love Tisch and NYU...I get to do a BFA but also come out as a well-rounded person and not solely engrossed in MT. I'm so excited for next year.</p>
<p>It is true that after freshman year, you pick what you want to take from a very wide array of choices. </p>
<p>My D did not mind the required freshmen writing classes as she loves to write and the focus of the classes was on the arts and culture, topics she enjoys. But this is a good example of trying to garner perspectives and accounts from more than one student because NOCCA Junior didn't enjoy the writing classes that much and I have heard others complain but my kid feels differently about them. My D also likes having some liberal arts in order to become more worldly which she not only enjoys but also feels makes her a better actor with more to draw upon. A lot of kids, as much as they crave theater, have some other interests. I don't know what your D enjoys. Mine likes to write. She is very into music. She loves other cultures. Also like politics and activism. The choices there are endless and so if your D does enjoy learning about other things, she will have a little of that per semester. As well, she will be required to take Theater Studies classes which seem to be a bit more of the curriculum at Tisch than I have seen at some other schools that maybe have one or two courses in that area. Again, after freshman year, there are MANY Theater Studies classes to choose from. If you are going to work in theater, it is good to have a deep knowledge about theater, beyond the skills of DOING it. Have your D look online at the array of classes available and see if she likes that or not. For instance, right now my D is studying Indonesian Theater which combines her love of theater with learning about another culture and she is studying Avant Garde Theater. She chose those and your D can choose what she enjoys. I truly believe that a great many of the BFA programs also require at least one, perhaps two classes outside of training per semester. Tisch is not that different than some in that regard. There are some that require less. Perhaps your D can put the Tisch requirements and curricula side by side with Ithaca, which I believe you said she is also considering and see what she thinks.</p>
<p>S, thank you sssooo much for your wisdom!
My D's acting coach has heard from several of her students that the program is just too demanding. Some of these students were at the top of their high school classes. My D hasn't been able to reach any of them yet. She has spoken to 3 other students who say it's tough but she could make it. Her second career choice (backup) has always been Cultural Anthropology as her first choice has always been Musical Theatre. So, she loves liberal arts classes. She is not in love with writing but can write well. She just does not want to go to college and be so bogged down with school work that she never sees the outside of her cinderblock cell (haha) or never gets to sing for the sake of singing!
Even though NYU is at the top of her list right now she really wouldn't mind going to Ithaca in the end because it did run neck and neck with NYU when first choosing who to audition for.
Nobody ever told me that her senior year would be like running a small business with all that it entails!</p>
<p>I just read a paper my daughter wrote for one of her classes and I could not beleive how much she has grown as a writer. She is a Drama major at NYU and was not one of the top students applying academically. I think her talent helped get her in. She was very worried that she would not be able to keep up with the academics. She has had learning disabilities her whole life and has always struggled to get good grades. She loves NYU and loves not only the acting part but her other classes. She has had no trouble getting As and Bs. She is extremly busy but is very devoted to acting and learning. I would not worry about the academics. I wanted my daughter to go to a school with great academics and she is really doing well. I would not rule NYU out.</p>
<p>Thanks Actressmom.
The input is very valuable to us.</p>
<p>bettyboop, congrats to your daughter on having great choices for college! My D is in the same situation (choosing between BFA MT programs at NYU and Ithaca, among others) and one thing to think about is that students at both of those programs have to take a generous number of liberal arts courses, along with their studio courses.</p>
<p>bettyboop....has your daughter visited BOTH schools? Both are really wonderful for MT. I've been to both and my daughter was admitted to both programs. I realize people compare programs but you also gotta compare the entire college experience because there is more to it than the MT program itself. You are doing that of course when you examine the academic component. The settings of both schools could not be more vastly different, as well as the size. Your daughter should look at those differences and which appeals to her more. Also, meeting current students and spending time on campus is important as she may get a vibe of where she feels like she fits. This differs from school to school and I am not just talking of the BFA program which is a small subset of the college. </p>
<p>"Having time" is difficult at ALL BFA programs. The schedules are intense. This is not specific to NYU. You mention that she could be bogged down with academics but I don't think so. My D barely talks about the academics as the arts stuff takes up the majority of her time. </p>
<p>You mention getting to sing for the sake of singing. In my D's case, since she arrived at NYU, she has been in a coed a capella group, the NYU N'Harmonics. She rehearses twice per week with them and she writes arrangements for the group and musically directs. They perform at NYU, at other colleges, venues in NYC and in collegiate competitions. They just won the Northeast Championships for collegiate a capella and are going to the International Finals at Lincoln Center in ten days! This is just ONE example of fitting in MORE singing in her life. She was offered to play a gig of her own songs at a club coming up. She has sung and played her own original songs at Tisch open mike nights. These are just a few examples. Believe me, she spends the majority of her time training, singing in a capella, rehearsing musicals, etc. She also has some academics on the side.</p>
<p>bettyboop.....about the comment that your acting coach has heard from others that NYU is too demanding......I don't think this is due to academics. These BFA programs are INTENSE, I cannot emphasize that enough. They are NOT for all people. There are kids in BFA programs who decide that it is not for them. They need to fully understand what is involved before entering one. The hours are HEAVY. This is not specific to NYU. Most kids I have met at BFA programs have schedules like my kid.....school all day, rehearsals all night and weekends. </p>
<p>And like NMR says, many of the other BFA programs ALSO require SOME liberal arts classes, not just NYU. Put the curriculum side by side with the schools your child is considering. The academic classes MAY be easier at a less selective university than NYU but only your D can say whether she prefers easy classes or ones that may challenge her more or not. </p>
<p>I would not rely on what others have "heard." I would go to the school and ask many students directly OR if not possible, ask the school to provide you with some students who are willing to be contacted. Also, your D can ask questions on facebook of current students. Again, she'd have to ask more than ONE student as each person's experiences and perspectives will differ and so she needs to look at the sum total. </p>
<p>She must have applied to these schools for a reason as certain aspects must have been appealing. She should decide which one more closely aligns with her personal selection criteria. Has she been on campus at both schools? There is also gut intution involved....which school feels more like "me". I believe you are from the South and so your D should try to get a vibe for what the student body is like at Ithaca and at NYU. Does she care about diversity? Does she care about an urban or a rural setting? Life in Ithaca, NY is vastly different than life in Manhattan. However, both schools and both programs are great.</p>
<p>Soozie, my D has been to NYU. She was in a production in NYC last summer and rehearsals were held at NYU in the cap studios. She would also have a network of people around her including theatre/film professionals that she's close to and various other friends at NYU and other schools. So far she has spoken with a couple of kids that currently attend NYU on face book last night. The msg she keeps getting is that it's hard but she could probably handle it. She has been doing MT for 9 years and it seems that you know what kind of schedule that entails.
As far as Ithaca, we have not been there. She has spoken to a number of students there over the past few months, including a few that went to the same high school as her. She likes the idea that it's small and the classes are so small. Since we had the question answered about actual class size at NYU it didn't help the decision because those classes are relatively small also!
I guess it boils down to her (and I) wanting the best possible training in all three areas. It seems like she will acclimate to either campus. The other issue is the FA packages...Ithaca is miles ahead of NYU and the tuition is less to start out with so, that has created it's own monster!</p>
<p>NMR, which way is your D leaning???</p>
<p>None of the kids at Ithaca are really phased by their classes in saying they are tough. Several of the kids at NYU have said this. Kids at both schools seem to LOVE their programs. I guess being in NYC to start out with doesn't leave my D to move after graduation and get acclimmated to the city. There are too many sides to this rubics cube!
I'm glad to meet others going through these decisions.</p>
<p>My advice, money aside, is to let your D decide which she prefers and sit back and listen. </p>
<p>I also would be very hesitant to send my child to a school she has never visited no matter how great it is. Is there anyway to get her to Ithaca? She is spending four years of her life and countless dollars on this and I can't imagine doing it sight unseen. Some kids would love the college and setting and some would hate it. And it is so different than NYU that it is important for her to think about the differences and see which are more appealing to her. </p>
<p>I still maintain that when the students say it is "HARD", they don't mean the academic classes are too difficult but that the entire package of attending the BFA program and everything else is hard and intense. I think it is very hard what they do but if they love it, they don't mind. Not all could handle it, that's for sure. Also, even if someone were to say the academic classes are hard, that kind of perception varies WIDELY depending who you ask. What one kid finds hard, another may not. Some kids my D knows, do not enjoy ANY academic classes (they should not have attended a school that has some). My D does. So, even on the enjoyment factor of academics, you would get very different answers depending which kid you ask. Take the writing classes.....NOCCA Junior doesn't care for them and my D enjoyed the writing. Also, since there are thousands of classes you can take there, it may depend what classes someone takes as to what is hard or not. Organic Chemistry is hard. History of Musical Theater is a total gut course. My D did not like History of Musical Theater (had trouble at the time getting into some other classes) because it was TOO easy and she knew most of the content already as well. Some kids loved it because it was SO easy. My D enjoyed Sociology of War....great professor and a topic she found engaging. Different strokes for different folks. </p>
<p>Does your D care about dance? The BFA in MT at NYU and at Ithaca differs in that area. </p>
<p>Ithaca is a much smaller college and the program is smaller. The class sizes in the training classes is about the same however. </p>
<p>Both NYC and Ithaca are cold but Ithaca is particularly cold and snowy (which we are used to here in VT but your D should think about if she is from the Deep South...she may like it and she may not). At Ithaca, it is a contained campus and you can't walk to anything. There is a small town that is nice (definitely small) within a couple of miles. Lots of students around due to Cornell. Each kid wants something different. My own D was not fond of the setting of Ithaca College (though the program is excellent) if given a choice. I was just in Ithaca with my other daughter as she just got into the graduate school of architecture at Cornell which is a top program in her field and she liked it very much but the location pales in comparison in her mind to the locations of some of her other schools such as in Boston and NYC. But others may LOVE it. My kids grew up in a rural area and wanted a bigger area for college and one where other things are going on and where they can walk to things.</p>
<p>Not sure if this matters to you but NYC is easier to fly to than to Ithaca.</p>
<p>Some kids want a college campus and some do not care. This is a huge difference at NYU and Ithaca and I don't know what your D cares about that aspect.</p>
<p>I have no idea what your D prefers. It really is personal preference. She should jot down what she k nows about each school and the pros/cons from her perspective and how these compare to one another but also how those things compare to her own personal selection criteria. No one school is "better" but one may better fit what she wants. I also would not overlook gut intutiion. I would put the decision entirely into her hands, as well (as long as you have OK'd the financial parameters).</p>
<p>betty, we are heading to Ithaca to visit for the first time (other than to have driven through) this weekend, so I will let you know what our impressions are when we return.</p>
<p>I would also recommend a visit to Ithaca, if at all possible. It's difficult to think of two schools which are more different in several ways than Ithaca and NYU.</p>
<p>We are visiting Ithaca in about 10 days. My D reads these threads daily so, she is trying to make a decision. At least she's narrowed down from 8 to 2! That was a start! She knows the decision is hers. I think the bottom line is that she wants to put the smallness of Ithaca into NYC. None of the other programs she explored in NYC were interesting to her.</p>
<p>betty, you know, from what you said about your D, Ithaca might just be perfect. I am told that our kids would be one of only 12-15 freshmen (probably evenly split between girls and boys) and she might like that. She might love the regular LAC atmosphere, with grassy hills and a quad and that kind of thing. My own D could not care less about those things: she wouldn't go to a sporting event to save her own life! In fact, the thing that concerns her about Ithaca is that it is not urban at all. She has gotten very accustomed to city life because we live very close to the city and she goes to school smack dab in the middle of one now. She enjoys a pretty flower or landscape as much as the next person, but is not an "outside" individual. It's sidewalks and buildings for her. So it will be interesting to see how she takes to Ithaca. As far as your D, she cannot make a mistake here. Ithaca is a fantastic program and so is NYU.</p>
<p>If a small college IS important to her (and she may know better after seeing Ithaca), then Ithaca may be the best bet. I will mention to you, however, that although NYU is a large university, Tisch is a small college within it and so much of your child's time is spent within the Tisch niche....be it studio, Theater Studies classes, productions, etc. Then, within that small college, the studio (an even smaller grouping) is their home/family for a huge chunk of their time and so that small feeling is very prevalent and it is not the same as attending NYU for arts and sciences. Of course the class sizes in studio are similar to Ithaca's BFA class sizes. But the entire experience of being at NYU....its size, campus, setting, location is very very different than Ithaca and so this is an important piece that your child needs to figure out as to what she prefers in those respects, besides comparing the BFA programs themselves. </p>
<p>Another difference is the general student body....at both colleges....not just in the BFA program but as a whole.....the selectivity of both colleges is quite different and may yield overall a different type of student body. I don't know if your child cares about that but my child did IF given a choice of schools. Ithaca's acceptance rate is 69%. NYU's acceptance rate (for all of NYU, not Tisch) is 29% and so this may be reflected in the general student body on campus. Your child may not care about this but mine did, again if she was given a choice and she was.</p>
<p>Does your daughter care about diversity of the student body? My kids did. Your child may not. Something to think about. Mine wanted to mix with kids of all types as well as from all over. They didn't have that growing up in terms of ethnicity but did socio-economically. Also, if your child is an URM, she may care about this. Just putting that out there as a consideration. </p>
<p>The make up of NYU's student body is:
African American: 5%
Asian American: 17%
Hispanic: 8%
White: 65%
International: 5%</p>
<p>In state: 34%
Out of state: 64%</p>
<p>The make up of Ithaca's student body is:
African American: 3%
Asian American: 3%
Hispanic: 4%
White: 87%
International: 2%</p>
<p>In state: 47%
Out of state: 53%</p>
<p>Some differences there. May matter to your child, may not.</p>
<p>Agree with NMR that your child cannot make a mistake here as both schools are great and both MT programs are wonderful. It really comes down to her examining what she is looking for and which school best matches that. I am glad you will get to visit Ithaca so that she will then get a feel for both places and she may end up just "knowing".</p>
<p>NYU's total acceptance rate for the Class of 2012 actually decreased to 24%. I wonder if Tisch rates were lower as well...</p>
<p>NOCCA....I had read that the acceptance rate for the class of '12 at NYU had gone down but I didn't have the figure at my fingertips and just quoted it from the recent past and meant to note that but forgot. Thanks for posting the current rate! Admissions to selective colleges has gotten tougher and tougher the last few years!</p>