How well are British qualifications viewed in the US and Canada?

International Students
1

Hello!

I’m an international applicant for PhD/MA in English literature to the US and Canada, for 2018 entry, and would really appreciate some insight as to how strong my application might be. I’m aware of how ridiculously competitive PhD positions are, but unlike here in the UK they are all funded which appeals to me.

My background; I graduated from the University of Edinburgh (highly ranked internationally, and the English department in particular is well reputed) with a First Class in 2016. I have also scored Firsts in most of my honours (junior and senior year) courses. This is the very highest degree classification British universities give out, and in any case I’ve never scored below a B+ in any English course. I more or less know what I’ll be focusing on for research, although another thing I like about the US system is that the first year of the program is effectively an MA so you get to brush up and revisit literature on more advanced level before refining the resaerch proposal. Would my grades be seen as the equivalent of a 3.8-4.0 GPA? Pretty sure I can ace the GRE subject test too with a little practice, not that that is supposed to mattre much.

I’ve really been looking into grad schools and I’ve decided that I don’t want a ‘safe’ school- If I’m going to cross the Atlantic for 5 years then it’s got to be the very best. My safety net, however, is a one year MA, which should be somewhat easier to get into- I can fund myself for a year. These are the options I’m considering so far:

PhD: Yale, Stanford, Harvard, NYU, Princeton

Free standing MA: Toronto, Columbia, U Penn, maybe NYU if it’s possible to apply to both, and UBC.

Yale in particular is top notch for what I’m considering, so is Columbia, but Columbia’s acceptance rates are shockingly low. NYU really appeals to me because so far the department has been the friendliest and most welcoming of all that I’ve contacted, and of course living in New York would be exciting. Place is a big factor for me. I’d much rather go to a cosmopolitan, progressive, international city than a little town in the middle of nowhere. But a friend of mine from Edinburgh will start her PhD at Yale this year and that’s a big draw for me since i wouldnt be completely alone amidst strangers! And Toronto is a big pull for me as well because I’ve visited both countries and on the whole I prefer Canada. I’d definitely say that in this decision place and environment as AS important to me as the quality of the department.

It would be great if anyone has any opinions to offer on this :slight_smile: cheers x

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There are lots of people with British qualifications at top North American PhD programs (my husband was one). Many will be from Oxbridge, and many will have done a 1 year MA in the UK first.

What kind of First did you get? (It’s not quite true that a First is the highest you can get in Britain, for example some universities give Starred Firsts or Congratulatory First class degrees.) Someone with a 71 average is going to be viewed quite differently from someone with an 88 average.

It will depend what materials are required for application. If you need a long writing sample, that can often be hard for UK students to produce, since there is (or was) less training in that in the UK. That’s one reason why people do MA degrees first.

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Hey there, thanks for the reply. I think you’ll find that in most universities the very highest degree classification is indeed a First. In my experience British lecturers tend to mark out of 80% so a 71 is an excellent score, a 78% is particularly brilliant, and anything above 80% the University considers worthy of publication- it said so in our handbook and I know only of one guy who got a score in that range and he was published. In any case we don’t get final percentages- just the degree classification. Unless I’m mistaken, only Oxford and Cambridge offer Starred or Congratulatory firsts. I very highly doubt that someone with an 88% average (again, we don’t get average percentages) would be a common case- definitely an extremely rare exception.

My first and second year, I’ll be honest I slacked off and got mostly B’s, a couple of C’s, because I knew the first two years don’t count. But my scores in third and fourth year, particularly fourth year, have been excellent. Do you think that would count against me? I’m trying to look at it optimistically because every year has been a significant improvement over the last so on a graph my performance has rocketed.

I understand your point about doing an MA first, but as I understand it PhD first years effectively do an MA en route, funded as a part of the PhD package. As for the writing sample- most universities state they want about 15- 25 pages long, and our essays were around 3,000 words- about 15 pages. Our dissertation was 10,000. So I wouldn’t necessarily say long writing samples are difficult for UK students to produce, but if that is the case then I’m fairly certain I can scrape together a decent writing sample for admission, and then receive more training in the first couple of years of the PhD. But perhaps you think it advisable to go for an MA? My only concern with that is, will I ‘lose’ a year should I decide to go on for a PhD, or could I transfer credits and fast track onto second year?

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^I would have thought a significant weight of your application would be be given to your academic references, I should imagine for the programs you are looking at a first would be obligatory. Rocking up with a Desmond in years 1 and 2 wont help you, but I don’t know if it will harm you either. Good luck.

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I think you are significantly underestimating the strength of the competition for these programs. Some of them get about 400 applicants for 8 or 9 places. So it’s not about whether or not Yale will ‘hold it against you’, but about whether you’re in the top 15 (say) when compared to all the other people who apply. Would you be one of the absolute top candidates for an Oxford MA, likely to get a funding offer? If not, don’t think Yale will be any easier.

British universities differ on this. I would be amazed if the information about what percentage isn’t on your transcript, which you will have to provide, and which they will look at. It will also be used by your letter of reference writers when they compare you to other students.

You are right, they would be an extremely rare exception. But getting onto one of these funded PhD programs is very rare.

It will count a bit you at least a little, because you are competing with people who were at the top of their class from day 1, at top universities.

3,000 words is more like 10 pages. You will need to do a lot more than scrape together a sample to get admitted. I don’t mean to put you off, but you’re in the fortunate position of being able to do a prestigious MA very cheaply, by being a British resident. It’s becoming more and more common to lose a year. Look at sites like the grad cafe and whogotin for a sense of who your competition is.

(I have taught at British unis and sent students to the USA for grad school, by the way. I’m not just making this all up.)

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Hmm you’re right 3,000 is only about 11 pages. Well I guess ‘scrape together’ gave the wrong impression, I merely meant pulling on all my resources to do a longer essay to the best of my ability- I did not mean that I would neglect the essay or do a half- arsed job. I’m certain of being able to write an impressive writing sample.

Ah but I’m not a British resident- I’m an Indian national whose been in Britain for 5 years as a student now. UK visa restrictions mean I can only do a PhD in the country now, as I’m currently doing an MA in Illustration (that’s a whole other story). And British universities don’t fund all their PhD students, their arts and humanities students even less, and their international arts students even less. So there’s virtually no hope of getting a funded PhD here.

My overall percentage isn’t on my transcript, but my individual grades are. There is no overall percentage- just degree class.

Expense is one reason I wouldn’t want to do a free standing MA. My father has funded me throughout a (very) expensive elite international boarding school, an expensive four years at university, and I’d much prefer to be self- sufficient now. If it’s a school like Toronto, which I really like the idea of, and it’s just one year then it’s alright.

OK so do you think I should aim a little lower? My friends from Edinburgh who got into Yale and Stanford’s PhD programs got the same grades as me so I don’t want to be put off. If I get rejected from everywhere then I’ll just have to shrug and get a job, because I honestly don’t want to do a PhD for the sake of it- I want to be working under the best and brightest minds, in a top notch university with inspiring scholars and top research facilities/ environment. If I can’t have that I’d rather take a job. I don’t mean to come off sounding arrogant or entitled- it’s just that I know a PhD is something I can only be enthusiastic about if I’m studying under the leaders in the field in a world class institution. If there are other universities that offer a similar experience but aren’t nearly as stringent, I’d be glad to hear of them.

Location is also really important to me as well- living in North America would be enough of a culture shock as it is, but I couldn’t live anywhere that wasn’t cosmopolitan, cultured, diverse, and of a reasonable size. That’s why New York, Boston, Vancouver, and Toronto appeal to me, but also for that reason I might knock off Princeton.

What is your opinion of Philadelphia? I’ve never been.

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US schools do not fund all their PhD students either.

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^ Some fund more and some disciplines get more.

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Many college towns will be cosmopolitan, cultured, and diverse. They may not be very big, but don’t knock it unless you’ve lived in one. Some of them are beautiful places.

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If you really want the best or not at all, i think your strategy is the right one. The top us programs do fund everybody they accept. So good luck! But you should be realistic about the odds of success.

Even if your average isn’t on your transcript, anyone looking at the list of marks can get a rough sense of what it is. People certainly do distinguish between high middle and low firsts.

Sorry for assuming you are a British resident.