<p>Oh, hazmat - I knew I could count on a hyperbolic overgeneralization from you - SO glad you didn't disappoint! I mean, if you had any idea about the complexity of the relationship between Duke and Durham and chose to make critical, substantial, and relevant commentary - well that would be one thing... But in the complete absence of that? A magnificent representation of your continued uninformed rhetorical nonsense - bravo! <em>Almost</em> as good as bringing Duke up on a Cornell thread about suicides, though not quite as completely irrelevant.</p>
<p>They don't call Duke THE PLANTATION without justification.</p>
<p>The stone walls, the stonewalling, the stoned. Duke has 'em all.</p>
<p>And that justification is? And who are "they"?</p>
<p>Much has been made about the racial profile of Duke (which is close to the racial profile of America and is therefore, I would say, befitting a national university) versus the racial profile of Durham. That does not make it a plantation.</p>
<p>The workforce here more closely represents the population of Durham. Why? Because we hire from Durham. In fact, we are the major employer in Durham. Does this make it a plantation? No.</p>
<p>Do people seeking their 15 minutes of fame by dialing in to people's deepest emotions by throwing around words like "plantation" make it a plantation? No.</p>
<p>Wow - and you even edited your post to add a comment about "the stoned," bringing in presumed drug use as yet another level of irrelevance. You missed a chance, though - you would have gotten quadruple bonus points for adding "the Stones" since they played a concert here.</p>
<p>DukeEgr - I think we can assume that "they" refers to "the man" or the "white power structure," both of whom wish nothing other than to spread violence, misery, and vile, vile racism amongst the Duke community! Ya know, they don't call the plantation for nothing...</p>
<p>mam1959:</p>
<p>If more alum, parents, and students expressed your opinion, administrators at Duke and other schools with similar "culture" issues would be forced to start responding.</p>
<p>Without our voices, the alums who place a winning lacrosse (or basketball or ice hockey or whatever) season above the moral and ethical values of higher education win the hearts and minds of college administrators and the behaviors continue to be enabled.</p>
<p>mam1959: InterestedDad definitely hit it - people who care about the institution, but see in it aspects that are contrary to its mission should definitely speak out with all the passion and conviction that such a care can generate and from as informed a position as possible. There are, of course, <em>more</em> than two sides to every story, and while this particular one is being investigated, still there is work being done on the several longstanding issues that both the alleged incidents and the confirmed crimes have brought into the spotlight. </p>
<p>As President Brodhead said, "This is a difficult time at Duke. Allegations have been made that, if verified, will justify all of our outrage and call for very severe penalties."</p>
<p>In the long term, questions of culture do need to be asked - and have been asked all along. What is it that contributed to "a part of the University that has always been there (and frankly, at a lot of other campuses, too) that we never liked"? How many "rich, spoiled kids" are there, and how much of that is a stereotype in and of itself?</p>
<p>To carry InterestedDad's point further, I definitely agree that it will be people like you - people with a working knowledge of Duke such as alums and parents and students - as well as people in the Durham community who have worked with Duke or have taken the time to get to know the complexities that form the relationship between Duke and Durham, as well as people from elsewhere who have done so - who will be best able to speak to what needs to happen to improve Duke as a place of higher learning and as an institute that can best accomplish its mission "to provide a superior liberal education to undergraduate students, attending not only to their intellectual growth but also to their development as adults committed to high ethical standards and full participation as leaders in their communities"</p>
<p>Gosh, myweatherby, I saw coverage of the Pit attack at UNC on CNN and other major news outlets, not to mention the minute-by-minute TV coverage...how does that not equal "scarce coverage by local papers?"</p>
<p>Empathy in the recognition of how this is making Duke students feel mad, sad and scared. Self respect in that I don't believe or support racism. Common values in that to have empathy for the Durham residents as they serve as employees of Duke or town residents as employees at my school......knowing that they didn't have the opportunites, that cleaning up after others isn't fun. Respect and empathy....common values help to keep town/gown relations peaceful and pleasant.</p>
<p>High standards that I hope Duke Administration will uphold.</p>
<p>Yes, the Pit attack was broadcast nationally. We all watched the recuperation process.</p>
<p>My point was that the university itself was not blamed for the actions. Should it be? Obviously, the cases between UNC and Duke are strikingly different. One involved an alumnus and a "freak accident", the other involved current students that made regrettable decisions. Yet Duke is bearing the brunt of the criticisms. Whether or not you believe that to be justified is your decision.</p>
<p>Ultimately, this entire discussion is pointless until further evidence is released. I for one will be awaiting the results of those DNA tests before passing judgment. Let's hope this all works out for the best. Whatever happens, the faults of a few--if they are verified--should not taint the integrity and veracity that Duke holds.</p>
<p>Let me give you another vignette that illustrates what I liked about Duke (to be fair and balanced) and what needs to be practiced consistently, particularly among the rich and spoiled that attend Duke and others like it. I lived in a somewhat wild dorm my freshman year (those of us who wanted to study went to the library and concomitantly treated school a bit like a job - with set study hours - not at all a bad idea, if I may say so), and the place was completely trashed on Monday mornings. One of the dorm members, an African American guy who was charming yet somewhat uneven and full with ego (who went on to become student body president (an unpopular one, unfortunately)) mentioned to us how much it distressed him that everyone left the place a total and disgusting mess (yes, the externalities of drinking) because we knew the minimum wage maids and cleaners would be in come Monday to clean the place up. He thought it disrespectful to these people - a bit of trash is one thing - but the utter disgusting mess was another - and no matter how much this fellow may have been annoying from time to time, he was absolutely right-on with this one. In response to him, I wouldn't say the situation became perfect, but there was a lot more self clean-up in general, and a lot more hi's and hellos to the working people that came into the dorms and grounds to do their jobs. I thank him to this day for reminding us the importance of treating people with dignity - a lesson very valuable. </p>
<p>Which brings me to the rub of the lacrosse issue - we are in no position to assess the legalities of the situation - but are in a position to cast light on the team's judgment and to some extent the coach's judgment. Duke should not be and is not an athletic factory. Want that? Go to LSU, Tennessee, and other places that actually are just that (I got recruited at these places and others like it, so again, I am not just conjecturing - to some degree I am informed). Casting aside a few basketball superstars - who may be there for athletics - everyone at Duke ought to first and foremost be a student - no exceptions. And please, if you are on a sports team, you represent the University - like it or not - and act accordingly. At some level I am pleased by the University's serious response to this but would like to see a concerted effort by the athletic department as well. </p>
<p>And yes, our family has received a couple of Brodhead letters, and while we are glad to see the University's response, make no mistake about it, many of us alums feel burned - even to the point of the daughter of my good friends (parents are both Duke undergrad, grad and law) recently choosing Brown over Duke, with, like it or not, the pall of the lacrosse situation a factor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
** particularly among the rich and spoiled that attend Duke and others like it.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>If you don't mind my asking.......how did you distinguish the kids on FA from the rest? Do you think the % of the student body is lean on students who receive financial aid? Things would be better if the % was higher?</p>
<p>Mam1959, Will your daughter attend Duke despite the Lacrosse Scandal?</p>
<p>mam, just came over from other Lacrosse thread - your posts here should be required reading for Brodhead and staff when charting a course forward and dealing with those involved.</p>
<p>I am sure to those students currently at Duke this seems almost surreal with the TV anchors and all, all because of the actions of a few. Believe us, from the outside looking in, it looks bad, real bad.</p>
<p>To those who question Duke's commitment to racial diversity and Durham residents, look at the numbers and stories and see what Duke students actually do in the community. Students have actively supported better pay for Duke hourly employees.<br>
Durham is not going to become Hanover or Ithaca no matter how much community service is done. Part of the Duke 'experience' is confronting the economic and racial issues that continue to exist in Durham and developing 1st hand constructive responses to them. You don't get this opportunity in those places either. </p>
<p>So go to Dartmouth because u love it, not because you want to run away from Duke and Durham. Because your DD/DS will get drunk at Dartmouth or Cornell just like they would have at Duke, and they will run into spoiled, arrogant athletes just like they would at Duke.</p>
<p>Where does your man Myles Brand stand on these issues??? How does the sanctioning body play this game? I wonder if he will man up and become part of the solutions.???</p>
<p>umm, Brand is 'my man' in as much as we share an area code. If the problem can be addressed with platitudes and resolutions, I'm sure Dr. Brand is up to the task.</p>
<p>i was accepted but am enrolling into columbia next year</p>
<p>although i wasnt really planning on going to duke if I got accepted, i can say that the scandal has hurt duke's credibility and attractiveness as a college for many of the seniors and juniors in my school (we had a class debate about it)</p>
<p>Do you and your classmates think such things don't happen at Columbia or other ivies/elite schools?</p>
<p>altho HC240, the next couple of years at Duke will probably involve a great deal more institutional soul-searching and change than anything that happens at Columbia. Not to knock Columbia at all.</p>
<p>But if Pres Brodhead is even halfway committed to affecting change as put forth in his letter yesterday, the Duke student experience could seriously be a model for what we are expecting from an elite institution like Columbia and Duke.</p>
<p>alex, I agree alcohol abuse and random, even unwanted/coerced sex occur at every college, no matter what its SAT scores - but we must not kid ourselves that this incident as described to date, combined with the email, paints a very disturbing picture of core of top athletes completely out-of-control at a school that prides itself on having real student-athletes and high standards of student behavior. There is a real problem here and I am very glad the administration is tackling it head on. It can only make Duke a better place to be.</p>
<p>"Do you and your classmates think such things don't happen at Columbia or other ivies/elite schools?"
Although New York is full of crime, I dont belive I've ever heard of racism-charged gang rape on the campus of Columbia. </p>
<p>It seems like a lot of people on this board are brushing the incident off and ignoring the basic problematic themes of the incident, telling people to "look at other schools and their crime rates." Seems like a Red Herring. Race tension is far more of a pressing issue in duke then it is in Columbia, am I wrong?</p>