<p>Please recall that IVYs don't give athletic scholarships......unlike Duke/Stanford et al. IVY does give recognition during admissions but no monies.</p>
<p>While I'm confident that at Columbia, the accused's rights would have been respected to the letter of the law, egregious and indefensible behavior will get the culprit tossed out on his/her burro.</p>
<p>Columbia athlete do enjoy some great advantages, particularly fantastic summer jobs provided by influential alumni, but Columbia athletes are not coddled.</p>
<p>True that Columbia and probably Brown are two least athletically-oriented Ivies. But this age-old canard, that because Ivies don't give 'athletic scholarships', they don't heavily recruit and or coddle w/major $$$ athletes in sports where they want to be nationally competitive and where alums are supportive - see Harvard/Cornell/Dartmouth hockey, Princeton/Cornell Lax, Penn B-ball - PLEASE!!! </p>
<p>HC240 - I agree that this type of incident does not happen everywhere - I think <em>most</em> would agree that this is sort of the perfect storm effect. Current Dukies on this board who are in the 'Duke bubble' - don't kid yourself that this is going to blow over and that no long-term damage has been done. Brodhead to his credit realizes this and has layed out some potentially far-reaching initiatives that could have some very profound effects on campus life.</p>
<p>Obviously Duke is going to have to determine how badly it wants to compete for D1 national championships and what sort of controls must be <em>firmly</em> in place to ensure athletes are not "coddled" to the point that their abberrant off-field behavior negates their accomplishments on it. Personally, I'll take an 2-9 football team that keeps its nose clean and functions as part of the student body over a national championship contender that isolates itself and brings disgrace by its actions.</p>
<p>It would seem that Brodhead is indeed advocating for more strident restrictions on athletes.......which one might interpret as isolate, keep 'em clean and make 'em dominate. So you are saying keep the rules the same for all students......have lesser domination but the same accountability???</p>
<p>First of all here is a link to a well-balanced local article on Duke/Durham reality from the Raleigh (20 miles away) paper. </p>
<p>hazmat, I don't construe Brodhead's remarks to date as wanting to further isolate athletes at all - quite the opposite. I hope you are not pre-law if you are interpreting what has been said this way...</p>
<p>Yes I absolutely am for the same rules for each student, although we all know there are many reasons beyond sports why this will never be 100% true.</p>
<p>As someone who is deciding between Stanford and Duke, I believe the Lacrosse scandal will greatly affect recruitment and yield for Duke this year and perhaps for some time in the future. I cannot mention Duke to my friends without getting comments about the scandal and concerns about racism. While I am familiar with Durham and the Duke campus, I have concerns about attending Duke given its portrayal in the media.</p>
<p>Thanks for being honest and posting your situation. I am sure you aren't alone in your concern.</p>
<p>[section edited out - Mod JEM]</p>
<p>I feel I can speak with some knowledge on this topic. I am the very proud mother of an accepted Pratt student - 2010. This 'scandal' will in no way affect his decision to attend. </p>
<p>First I want to address the topic of recruited athletes. My husband was a recruited athlete by many colleges ( one of which was an IVY). There are many ways that an IVY can get around giving outright scholarship money to its recruits. For example, giving athletes cushy work-study jobs in the gym or 'cafeteria'. My husband worked as a "door monitor" at the freshman cafeteria and didn't have to pay for a meal plan. This is just one of the examples of the perks that were offered to him...I could list more. No, they don't appear anywhere as athletic scholarships - because those aren't allowed. Hmmmmm....no one will ever convince me that recruited athletes at any Tier 1 school are not treated differently than the other students. If you think that an IVY is different than I think you are sadly mistaken. My daughter is being looked at as a recruited athlete (she is only a sophomore in high school ) and because of that my SON was treated differently by one of the colleges looking at her. They offered to help get him connections to increase his financial aid package. So please, give me a break.....Do I think this is right - well, that is a whole new topic.</p>
<p>Do I think what happened at Duke could have happened anywhere - and by gosh even at an IVY - YOU BET IT COULD!!!! If the allegations are true - it is a very sad statement about how SOME children are raised to think that they are above the law and are not accountable for their own actions. When any group of immature individuals have been led to believe that they are privileged and are continually coddled and put upon a pedestal - mixed with alcohol - this can only mean one thing - trouble. I believe it shows a complete lack of self-respect and respect of others to exhibit the behavior that is alleged. I do believe Duke, as I would expect any university, will not allow such behaviour. I personally have witnessed horrible behaviour at frat parties where alcohol was involved, at the Tier 1 school that I attended. Blaming Duke, in my opinion, shows a lack of understanding for the root of the problem, for I believe it runs deeper than that.</p>
<p>This is just my opinion and I have probably said too much - but anyone who lets this alleged incident affect their decision to enroll at Duke is making a mistake because poor decision making mixed with alcohol exists at any university....unless of course you are thinking of maybe BYU or Grove City...: )</p>
<p>Booya..........buy low and sell high. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Go Pratt gee I thought that was in NYC??? I must be confused. CooperUnion and Pratt I am sure they are in The City.</p>
<p>I don't need you to give me any value but thanks anyway.</p>
<p>the Pratt you're thinking of is the Pratt Institute, which is located in Brooklyn, New York.</p>
<p>Great post, LAPeru!</p>
<p>hazmat, remember: you give your $0.02 worth, but you only get a penny for your thoughts. ;)</p>
<p>Why do some campuses have a culture that seems to tolerate sexual aggression more than others? Is it linked to jocks? Greeks? A weak administration?</p>
<p>Option three.........option three......option three</p>
<p>Hey Indy......I'm sittin here on my BB having a beverage and waiting for the concert to begin....talking all about LAX and the events in Durham. Also a few mentions about Formula 1 and Indy 500. Gotta love wireless and multi tasking. Weather if fine and the campus is all buzzing about Spring Fling. Thanks for asking 'tho.</p>
<p>Gee hazmat--we thought you knew EVERYTHING about Duke--you didn't know that the Pratt School of Engineering is the engineering school at Duke???????? </p>
<p>LAPeru~thanks for your articulate post! hazmat will probably not pay much attention to its content, as his agenda is to bash Duke. I'm beginning to think that Penn's coursework isn't very challenging if he has this much time to devote to every thread about Duke on CC.</p>
<p>Your son will not only love Duke, but also the Pratt School of Eng. Our son has been very happy, and we have been incredibly impressed with Pratt!!</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son--we'll look forward to hearing more from you in the future!!</p>
<p>From reading up on the news, it seems the administration doesn't tolerate sexual assault...it just needs to know what happened, like everyone else</p>
<p>I believe that there's disingenousness in equating the Duke "jock mentality" to the scholar athletes at some of the ivies. Perhaps this can only be substantiated by comparing academic stats of the teams. The main reason why Duke is differentiated from the ivies in the public's mind is BECAUSE of the sports component. Ask any average person on the street about Duke and they'll mention the athletic program right along with the academics. This just doesn't happen with the ivies, although to some extent in the past with other academic powerhouses like GTown and Stanford. Duke holds itself out as the academically elite school WITH the state university type of athletic programs. The best of both worlds type of thing. So it actually purports to be both, and in protecting this market niche, it has allowed the negative aspects of "jockness" to insidiously take root. There are wonderful aspects to college athletics, but there's the dark side, too. And we are seeing the dark side.</p>
<p>I find the above post by investorscooter to be very accurate. This is just a consequence of Duke's decision to combine excellent academics with "state-university" athletics.</p>
<p>Duke has chosen to lower standards significantly for athletes (just do a search on Sean Dockery and you can find information on his high-school academics and near NCAA ineligibility), and now Duke is faced with the less desirable effects of this policy.</p>
<p>I have to say that I have found the standardized test scores can be over-weighted, and that the leadership and dedication shown by some athletes allows them to get more out of a college education and give more to the undergraduate experience than some with "perfect scores." I would say it is unfair to claim Duke has chosen to lower standards significantly for athletes as a general statement, and that while in some cases some athletes have lower "metrics," they have made up for those in other ways. "Standards" is a hard word when you want to put together a group of folks that will both benefit from and contribute to the institution. </p>
<p>And when it comes right down to it, I believe this is why so many people are hurt and angry and outraged about the current known and alleged actions of some of our students.</p>
<p>Im getting threats through my PM box:
" leave it alone
You haven't even set foot on campus for your freshman year. I highly suggest you avoid preaching to a group of students who have gained a deep understanding of Duke-Durham relations, and race relations in ths South in general."</p>
<p>seriously, can we please admit that not everything is find and dandy on dukes campus? stop pretending the problem doesnt exist</p>