Having seen reports on the news today regarding multiple cases of harassment, reported at every level from kindergarten to high school to undergrad to even the workplace, it seems as if certain “white-supremacy” advocates are exercising violence to physically intimidate other people. I personally found the news regarding SDSU and UL Lafayette to be most jarring.
As a prospective member of the class of 2021 at one of the “reputable” US Universities, is it valid to be concerned and atleast a little scared about discrimination and bullying, or should one keep faith that strong policies of diversity and inclusion that hold at universities like Duke and UChicago will prevail within the campus?
As of this morning, none of the reports have said the SDSU hate crime/robbery was done by anyone affiliated with the university. SDSU is continuously ranked as one of the top schools in the US for ethnic and racial diversity, and they have a very protective and vocal student body. I’m not worried that my child will be bullied or attacked on campus by his fellow students.That said, if you aren’t familiar with the campus, please know that it is a very large university situated in the 8th largest US city, adjacent to one of the county’s busiest freeways. It also has a big city transit center on campus, as well as an underground trolley stop. Due to this, and since it is a public university with events open to the general public, people not affiliated with the school are always on campus, whether it is for a concert, sporting event, lecture, or they are waiting for a bus. From following the school’s police reports for the past few years, most instances of parking lot robberies tend to be done by non-students. (This doesn’t mean that there are a ton of parking lot robberies on the campus. This is just an observation from reading the overall statistics/reports.) Here’s the official police summary that was released to the public last night:
"Summary: An SDSU student was walking to her vehicle using the stairwell of Parking #12. Two males, who made comments about President-Elect Trump and the Muslim community, confronted her and grabbed her purse and backpack. They removed her car keys before fleeing the area. The victim left the area to contact to police. When police arrived on scene, her vehicle was missing. She was uninjured. The investigation is ongoing into the hate crime, robbery and vehicle theft.
San Diego State University Police Department is investigating this incident.
Suspects: Suspect #1: White male adult, 20-25 years old, 5’9”-5’10” large build, blond/ brown hair, wearing a white t-shirt and jeans and light colored eyes. Suspect #2: Hispanic male adult, 20-25 years, 6’2” skinny build, gray hoodie, dark pants and dark hair."
Trump has said that he wants to bar entry to people from countries that sponsor or harbor terrorism. Depending on how that gets defined, students from Saudi Arabia, one of the largest groups of international students, might find their entry barred. Or at least be subject to “extreme vetting,” whatever that turns out to be.
I can speak specifically about NC and Duke, so I will try to share my view
The best schools in this country are more liberal. I will not post my personal opinion about why this is. As somebody who lives in this country and is incredibly privileged, though, I am also terrified for my friends and loved ones who are not as lucky. Hate and harassment will most certainly become a bigger problem than it already is in the U.S.
However, at very prestigious and/or liberal schools, the student body tends to be much more accepting, protecting, and willing to fight for change than nearly anywhere else. Speaking of Duke, I live in NC, and for the blue districts for this presidential election (blue meaning democrat), it was all of the student-heavy areas and the research triangle (where Duke is located). Those and Asheville are the most tolerant areas in the state and you will find yourself in a position of relative safety if you choose to attend school there. You will likely experience a few isolated incidents but if you surround yourself with good people and stay safe, there’s no reason to be more scared than you would have been.
(on the other hand, if you come from a country where you are used to beneficial government programs and widespread tolerance, it may be a bit of a culture shock)
I don’t think much is going to happen to international students, they are HUGE money makers for schools as most of them pay full-fare. However, what happens after they graduate may change. To work in the US, a foreigner needs an employer to sponsor them and prove they are doing a job that there is no qualified american to do- this process is not to be taken lightly as is, and may be subject to change, so good news for american citizens.
The reactions among applicants I had were swift: some parents are dropping the US altogether or adding /pushing Canada. I’ve explained that there are 'blue’s areas and that 'red’doesnt mean people will threaten or insult their kids but they look at me with anger because I try to avoid generalization - ‘we don’t want to take the risk’ or ‘sorry these people are unpredictable and it takes only one excited dangerous guy to do harm’.
One family specifically asked me to check or ask the election results in the town or county where each college is located - they don’t want to be placated, they don’t care about voters’motivation or reasoning or rationale, for them any county or town where the majority voted ‘red’ is written off. No if or but or what. I’ve tried to explain it’s unfair but they don’t care. Suddenly the US has become a dangerous place in their eyes. Some, who wanted to send their kids to protect them from terror, pointed out support from one terrorist organization (I immediately said it’s been repudiated but the family was like ‘of course, no candidate wants that public, but they found enough to like to endorse him, so what does that tell you?’) and well publicized glee from another terrorist group. These parents aren’t just scared, they’re panicked because suddenly there’s no ‘kinda safe far away’ place, no haven for their kids.
My guess is that this year and next some universities are going to see a drop in applications, especially depending on the area they’re in, but that it’ll normalize later on as long as there are no incidents. Canada will increase its numbers.
I mostly work with European families. Some are located in cities that were hit by terror attacks and safety was one of their motivations, since odds of sudden harm seem lower due to distance from terror centers (random radicalized individual odds are seen as similar or lower) alongside the idea the US will be more tolerant for upwardly mobile minority kids. The US seemed a protection against the kind of hate, rhetoric, and fear created by Brexit, AfD, FN.
I also work with expat families in the US and right now the trend is ‘Should we leave?’ 'Should we move? ’ Not in the typical 'if X wins I’ll move to Canada ’ usual knee jerk reaction, but for real.
Americans abroad are also in a difficult position although so far they’ve not encountered hostility that I know of. It seems that reactions veer from ridicule to pity and curiosity. As background to what I said above, you should know European citizens have started a petition they plan to project onto Trump Tower - that’s how widespread those reactions are. The person who sent it to me was promptly told off (I was actually offended) but pretty much all the families are freaking out and upset because deadlines are 2-6weeks from now and suddenly the us reveals itself to be something else than they thought it was, they’re scared to send their kids to that unrecognizable country, to put them in harm’s way, they have little time and don’t know what to do.
We’re a big country, have many sorts of people. There will be always some who make noise, but this is far from representative of everyone’s attitudes. It’s far too early to inflate some incidents into predictions of an unpleasant experience. There are so many of us who welcome diversity. And this week, many campuses are already emphasizing dialogue and respect among students.
I’d also caution against some of the “spin” about this. At this point, you may hear stories- and these may be blown up, written to alarm, and then re-reported over and over.
And I’d definitely say don’t assume apps will drop to a point where there’s a dearth of intl kids applying and chances will improve for less qualified applicants.
I definitely don’t think apps will drop to a point less qualified applicants will have a shot at famous colleges (those are unpredictability -proof ), but I’m thinking of colleges such as umn Morris, u Alabama, the many small town PA and OH colleges - seeing a drop in applications.
For what it’s worth, actual incidents themselves don’t really figure into discussions - but rather the American tendency to like guns (actually a school chapter in many English books abroad), memories of learning about lynching or Selma, a cousin who reminds them how he was spat on after 9/11, bad memories from the GWB period, etc.
It’s also harder to dismiss incident reports as insignificant or blown out of proportion when you did dismiss them as such after Brexit, until the local Polish grocery was vandalized and kids harassed down the street.
Right now, reassurances don’t seem to work. It’ll probably ease with time but many deadlines are soon.
Agree. And I understand what you’re hearing, MYOS.
But though these incidents here occur in different parts of the country, I’d like intl posters to know, same as you, that we are not in anarchy. Many individuals, communities- and certainly, campuses- will not tolerate this sort of disrespect and dis-unity.
However, changes in national government policies could change how much of a deterrent effect there is against certain types of crimes. Or where lines get drawn between criminal and non-criminal (or subject to college disciplinary action or not) in certain borderline cases.
In addition, international students looking at graduate degrees in STEM fields and also undergrads hoping to participate in research must be wondering about future funding for grant agencies in the US, such as NSF, NIH, DOE, etc, given single-party control over budgets and those agencies (along with what appears to be growing anti-elitist sentiments). Statements about climate change being a hoax and other anti-science statements are worrying from the perspective of whether professors will continue to have enough funding to maintain their current number of grad/post-doc students. Grants are typically given for several years, so there will be some delay in any such effects taking hold.
I already know a few of DD’s friends who have now dropped their US applications, including one for Harvard’s JFK School. DD is trying to convince her that Boston and the JFK school are fairly liberal so she should have nothing to worry about.
The recent drop in the UK£ is likely to have a larger effect of British kids coming to the USA next year than the Trump effect.
Will not happen. Saudi Arabia is a US ally; it gets a pass, per se. In any event, allies are already more careful in whom they allow to again US visas.
“Trump has said that he wants to bar entry to people from countries that sponsor or harbor terrorism. Depending on how that gets defined, students from Saudi Arabia, one of the largest groups of international students, might find their entry barred. Or at least be subject to “extreme vetting,” whatever that turns out to be.”
@janesmith Doubtful; we get way too much oil from Saudi Arabia to bar their students from entering.
The issue is not literal and the impact is not direct. Although Germany and France have been floated as other “banned/vetted” countries, I don’t believe it for a second. However, many applicants simply don’t want to apply to universities in a country where bigotry is seemingly condoned and/or where officially all their people have been considered dangerous. Once the brand damage has been done, actual policy may or may not follow through - mostly, the damage needs to be repaired.
Saudis may or may not be banned: it’s enough that the US would seriously consider it to impact the US brand abroad and redirect applications to other countries.
There CAN be a shift in where students apply based on a country’s image - and US influence is related to its image, in part. Students want to come because our universities are great and famous, but also for everything the US “projects” about itself. (Think of the US seen from abroad as a giant combination of the SAE incident if it’d taken place at Mizzou in the middle of last year’s problems. Think of the drop in applications that followed even if nothing was going on later on, that generous scholarships were in place, that Mizzou still has the best undergraduate journalism program in the US. There’ll likely be a little drop this year too, and then things will get back on track if nothing else happens at Mizzou involving ethnic slurs, racist moments, leadership failure, or protesting students.)
If official discourse becomes polite, restrained; if definite measures are taken showing care for religious and ethnic minorities; if the current incidents are condemned; if nothing bad happens in the net few weeks/months, then the anguish will abate.
The view that “something bad” is going to happen is widely-held enough that an airline made an ad that stated “Special prices: visit the US while you’re still allowed to!”
^ what I tried to say above, and maybe I wasn’t clear is that 1° parents with children who want to go to the US are etremely worried and won’t be “calmed down” no matter what rationales you offer, even when you calmly eplain that even if a state voted red, they had other reasons than their candidate’s inflamatory rhetorics (to give you an idea, I had a family ask me point-blank whether Americans would consider it “open season on Black boys” and in the end, it wasn’t a question, they were just making a statement to me and making demands - because images from the past collide with words from the present) 2° it’s not just actions the white house may or may not take: a deteriorated image is hard to build back up; it’s hard to be abroad right now I can tell you.
It’ll take a while to get better for the US but it can be done; it’ll take a nice, long, peaceful period to reassure international parents.
), but I’m thinking of colleges such as umn Morris, u Alabama, the many small town PA and OH colleges - seeing a drop in applications.