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<p>Just a plain regular high-scoring math geek sounds more meritorious than having lived in Idaho.</p>
<p>I really think you need at some point to mention that you are a Harvard grad. What she said is insensitive and uncalled for. But she is NOT to old to learn from her mistakes. If she learns that you are a Harvard grad, and obviously she knows you are black, she will be given the opportunity to put 2 and 2 together, to contemplate her comments, and perhaps understand that her comments are out of place. </p>
<p>You handled it with grace, but I think the subject should come up. There has to be a way to bring it up without making her feel uncomfortable. I am hoping, though, that later she DOES feel uncomfortable with herself.</p>
<p>It is very probable that her son was not accepted because his essay reflected the narrow mindedness learned from his parents.</p>
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<p>Northstarmom, I usually love your perspective, but I would just like to be a little bit contrary:
She started talking about dining halls. YOU started talking about admissions. Now, it seems to me, even a great unhooked student probably only has about a 1/20 chance of being admitted to Harvard. Therefore, when you asked if her son had applied there, it probably sounded to her like, “So, did your son get rejected from Harvard?” Many students and parents are still stinging from rejection (even in July!). Maybe you could have compared Harvard’s dining hall to Yale’s, or talked more about Harry Potter, or, or, anything but making her admit her son had been rejected.</p>
<p>And now she is horrified because she blurted out something ungracious, and you are insulted. It is unfortunate all around.</p>
<p>geomom, If a person does not want to talk about Harvard, then they don’t bring up the dining halls. I mean, really, it’s that easy.</p>
<p>When a person talks in-depth about a college, it’s a natural turn of events to ask how they aquired that knowledge. Depending on the person’s age/geography, the question will either be “Are you applying?”, “Are you an alum?”, “Do you work there?” or “Did your child/grandchild apply?” </p>
<p>For example, I’ve been in the dining hall that was used for the Harry Potter films, it’s Christ Church College’s dining hall. When that comes up in conversation, people always ask how we saw it and as our son has grown, a few people have asked if our son applied to Oxford. Our answer is that a friend’s daughter was attending Oxford at the time and was gracious enough to give us, and our Harry Potter mad son, a tour of the campus including the spaces used in the movies. But I’m never offended when someone asks if he applied. </p>
<p>Lastly, when people ask me if my son was admitted someplace (he did not apply to Harvard but did apply to Yale), I never hear the question as, “So, did your son get rejected from Yale?” I tell them no, then tell them where he is attending at which point they ask us to pass on their congratulations to him. It’s a pretty well-worn social dance. And the kind of person who would actually be asking that would be a very shallow, mean-spirited person. That does not sound like NSM to me.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I’m troubled by the word “ungracious”; racism is far worse than that. If a person does not have the attitude that their child’s space was stolen by a student of color, then they would never blurt that out, no matter the situation.</p>
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Isn’t there something rather profound here? When she implied that her son might have been discriminated against in favor of someone of “your” status, your reaction was to be appalled - to deny that such a thing could be true. But white people hear people of color constantly implying that THEY were discriminated against by schools, employers, and so on - even if whatever rejection they had suffered had nothing to do with race. And the fact is, schools can pick a URM because he IS a URM, but they can’t pick a white person BECAUSE he is a white person. </p>
<p>If a URM doesn’t get accepted, he/she can easily convince themselves that it’s because he is a member of said URM, and therefore not a reflection of them personally. Other people have to accept that they are “not good enough” and that it IS a personal rejection.</p>
<p>sylvan, I learned in my sociology class about something called “white privilege”, we can’t completely assume (unfortunately) yet that everything is race neutral even in the USA.</p>
<p>Pugmadkate - I guessed the parent found the question hostile because of the pointedness of the response (saying to a black person, “My son didn’t get in because he isn’t black.”) I would guess if the question has come from someone extremely wealthy the response would have been. “Yeah well, he didn’t get in - we can’t really afford to donate a building, you know.” Or to the parent of the football All-American, “Well yeah he did get a 2400, but he probably didn’t get in because he can’t throw a football far enough.”</p>
<p>Now, nobody denies that race, wealth, and extreme athletic ability are hooks, but being snarky about one particular hook when the other person in the conversation possesses that hook is ungracious. Well, antagonistic really. But maybe the speaker felt provoked, even if it was not at all NSM’s intent.</p>
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<p>What kind of flavor of stupid does one have to be to not understand that being rejected from HYP et al is not a personal rejection, but just a function of the fact that they can only seat / admit so many students? It doesn’t mean you’re not good enough. It just means you weren’t selected.</p>
<p>her statement is ridiculous. if harvard thought her kid would make a valuable contribution to the student body, he would have been admitted. yes, harvard has admissions #s, but the fact remains her kid just didn’t have what harvard was looking for that year. race plays a factor, but it’s more of a nudge than a push. affirmative action is exaggerated, usually by ppl who are not admitted.</p>
<p>she sounds like she’s in denial about her kid’s talent/abilities/future and believes her kid is perfect and entitled to anything. just because she thinks her kid is a great fit doesn’t make it so. bleh. i can’t stand ppl like her. </p>
<p>it’s an ignorant and immature statement, but sadly, much of society is ignorant. it makes far more sense to believe if her son’s spot was “taken” it was by a less-deserving kid academically but with insane connections. legacy trumps far more than race. legacy = donations $$$</p>
<p>and who knows. maybe he did have the stats to get in and just didn’t. life’s unfair sometimes.</p>
<p>Tactless statement, but I’d advise people to [look at studies like this](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html”>A Ban On Horowitz - Minding The Campus) before declaring that “diversity,” rather narrowly defined, doesn’t play a crucial role in selecting students for elite colleges. In particular, the ethics of way “diversity” is determined are highly questionable and make some pretty unfair assumptions about certain groups, with accompanying negative consequences. </p>
<p>Critiques on the methodology of the study would be especially interesting to me.</p>
<p>it’s hard to say at schools at the ivies how much diversity plays a factor because you can argue that most of the applicants could probably be accepted if there were unlimited spots in the schools.</p>
<p>When D1 was applying to schools, she was rejected by Dartmouth, but a black girl (is that PC?) from her school was admitted with lower stats. I asked her college couselor about it, and she flatly told me that the girl was admitted because she was an URM. How did the counselor know? They had a conference call (between the counselor and the college) to go over each applicant. The girl’s father was a doctor and the mother was a lawyer, clearly upper class and didn’t need any FA. She was no more disadvantaged than my daughter. Yes, people do get bitter about it. I am sure the woman knew NSM was a Harvard graduate.</p>
<p>Good grief, oldfort, you are all over the place. What in the world led you to the conclusion that a student who is black is only valuable in terms of diversity if they are also poor? Race and class are two different things.</p>
<p>Also, a counselor who is incapable of keeping conversations about students private is not one whose word I would trust.</p>
<p>Geomom, So a person of color is “provoking” a racist reply by inquiring if someone, or their child, applied to a college that they were discussing the dining halls of?</p>
<p>How…interesting.</p>
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<p>But isn’t it the point that the mother didn’t accept that her child wasn’t good enough? If she had accepted it, she simply would have replied that he wasn’t accepted and moved on. Instead, she blamed his rejection on the university’s acceptance of two minority students and in doing so displayed a rather nasty prejudice.</p>
<p>pugmadkate - I am one for digging because information is king. Isn’t that the reason we are on CC? It is silly to say that just because someone is willing to give you information he/she is not willing to give to someone else is not reliable. Why do schools give special considerations to URM and first generation?</p>
<p>By discussing about a school’s dining hall is not an indepth discussion about a school. It is a passing remark.</p>
<p>“(is that PC?)”
:0</p>
<p>What is the alternative? Should colleges admit students purely on the basis of their stats? So, all kids who score between 2250-2400 are randomly divided between the top 5universities, those who score between 2100-2249 are randomly divided between the 6th through 10th universities, etc.?</p>
<p>There has to be room for “diversity”. Diversity of thought, diversity of ideas, diversity of cultures and diversity of backgrounds. Otherwise, we run the risk of stagnation.</p>
<p>The problem with your (tongue in check?) suggestion, dignified, is that not all 2250 to 2400s even want to go to the top five schools!</p>