<p>What was your grade in the class before this note incident? (directed at thread creator)</p>
<p>Look, because the situation has such a strong "gray area" on whether or not this was real cheating, (copying notes physically from a book or from the book's, as opposed to another student's, notes) I strongly suggest you bring your parents to vouch on your behalf. </p>
<p>You have to keep at it until they agree to not give you an F or drop you from the class. While they may dismiss you individually they will not dismiss your parents. If your parents are assertive enough you won't have a problem with this. The fact that 11 other students also got caught bodes in your favor as well. If the teacher had 11 students in her ADVANCED PLACEMENT biology class copy from the online notes, she obviously was not clear that this constituted cheating.</p>
<p>To add onto what Tyler09 said, because this obviously showed that the teacher was not clear enough that this was cheating (and if he or she hadn't stated previously that copying these online notes or anything other than your own thoughts was cheating,) then technically you didn't cheat. What you did, albeit distasteful, does not constitute receiveing a failing grade in the class.</p>
<p>from the OPs original post</p>
<p>
[quote]
we had to turn in a project where we make an evolution timeline and take hand written notes on two full chapters
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What is grey about it? They had a project. They had to "take handwritten notes". Are you seriously saying anyone above about third grade could interpret this "take hand written notes on two full chapters"as "word for word copy some notes from a web site in your own handwriting without citing the source"? Seriously? </p>
<p>As previous posters have said - in college they take academic dishonesty *very *seriously. And plagiarism very seriously. At my daughter's university it would get automatic F in the class with a notation by the F on the transcript saying the F is for cheating. And saying you didn't know you could word for word copy it from an internet (or any other) source will not work in college either.</p>
<p>Tyler09 and 12layla12,
I understand your point, but keep in mind the op chose his heading, which in part reads "caught cheating" not accused of cheating. I kind of think he and the other students caught, just didn't think it was a "big deal" and now are having to deal with the fact that it was a big deal.</p>
<p>Caught twice? EEEK. I'm no expert on admissions, but seriously, if I was an adcom and I saw that you got caught twice, I wouldn't care how good your reasons are. </p>
<p>UCs automatically reject D/Fs, even the lower tier ones. I know because my friend got a D in APLIt and is now going to CC because no UC would take her.</p>
<p>So that clears up the grey area. You were told to not copy, and you copied.
The best thing to do now is not to give excuses and own up to what you did. End of story. Hope that they'l be lenient, though unfortunately you clearly broke the rules and will most likely be justly punished. It's not too late to apply to some other, I guess "easier"-to-get-into colleges that are still accepting apps. Maybe you should think about that.</p>
<p>^That is proven to be what students who end up unsuccessful think.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, high school is simply a construct of many simple systems. Students who end up where you want to be get into the same situations as you all the time, except they are assertive about their goals and refuse to allow anything to diminish them. If you had known what you were doing was "cheating" you would not have done it correct? </p>
<p>Make that clear, yet lay responsibility on yourself, and also make it clear that you've learned to ask for clarification if their is any doubt in your mind. </p>
<p>I find it extremely relevant to refer to the crude yet wise south park episode where cartman tutors for inner city latino kids. </p>
<p>What is the number one defense for rich white prep school kids? "I misinterpreted the rules". </p>
<p>Get your parents involved, assert the fact that 11 students made the same choice showed that their was some misinterpretation, acknowlege fault in yourself for taking the easy way out, and, with your parents, make it clear that you want and NECESSITATE and alternate solution to failing the class and being dropped. Make some suggestions of your own, like failing the final and having a makeup assignment. Or failing that portion of the final and having to write up 4 or 8 pages of book notes hand-written to return the effort you "stole" from your teacher and peers. </p>
<p>Don't listen to people tell you to "take it". If you believe that you deserve this punishment, then sure, man up and take it. But if you don't believe you do and you have grounds to object to it, do so. It is up to you to take the necessary measures to assure your success.</p>
<p>OnlyIknow -- excuse me for not reading everypost, but HAVE YOU TOLD YOUR PARENTS YET. Yes, they will react in a negative manner, but you need to give them time to try to figure out to help you. If they cant get the F off your record (and two academic issues), you will likely be going to a relatively less selective private school or CC with no finaid (other than federal loans/grants if you qualify). Then if you smart, you will work hard and stop cheating and transfer in two years. In the process you will likely meet people you never would have otherwise and see how the other life (not only in terms of money, but other isseus) lives.</p>
<p>3321 that's very true. No matter how much this person doesn't want to admit it, they know they cheated. No "if's, and's or but's" about it. Unfortunate that it's their second offense, but if they didn't learn the first time, then by all means pity should not be granted the second.</p>
<p>This is what I understand of the assignment/project:
1. Create some evolution timeline
2. Take Notes to turn in (the key point turn in)</p>
<p>I think the key point is that you were supposed to turn in the notes. Therefore, the notes that you were supposed to produce are supposed to be unique and only original. They were not supposed to be from another source. If I were a teacher in that situation I would interpret this assignment as something that should be unique for each person (unless of course the teacher said people can share/have the same notes). Therefore, the fact that multiple people had the same notes indicates that there was collusion that could be considered cheating. In my school if two people turn in the same assignment both students get a 0 (or the grade is split-so both would get 50) until one person admits to copying.</p>
<p>Since the notes were a product, they should not be copied, period. This is obviously an offense. Blowing it off only shows that you cannot accept the fact that you cheated. Technically you should get a 0 or F for cheating on the assignment.</p>
<p>Compounded with that is the problem of plagiarism. You took someone else's notes (doesn't matter if its the textbook's) and turned it in as your own. This is exactly the same as finding a research paper online and turning it and saying that you simply used an online resource. I think the fact that these notes were supposed to be a product is what distinguishes it. If it were simply for personal use, sure you could copy the website's notes since you have the book, but you are claiming that those notes are yours when they are not. </p>
<p>This story reminded me of a story my AP Bio teacher told me. One of her professors would be constantly turning out publications each year, because of her contract with the university. (University of Wyoming). One student found one of the publications and realized that it was the same as a paper the student turned into the class. The teacher was found guilty of plagerism and fraud, because she published someone else's work as her own. The University was the one who pressed charges. The professor was sentenced to some years in jail. Essentially the moral is that all universities care about the plagiarism charges. The fact you plagiarized something is not alright. </p>
<p>IMHO, you have cheated and should suffer the consequences. You obviously knew that your school has the two cheating policies. Even though you may have not intended to cheat or thought you weren't doesn't change that. The fact that there is a warning system at your school prevents you from claiming that you needed a warning. The first offense was a warning and you should have learned your lesson. Even though it may be harsh to get an F in the class for copying notes, the fact that you had the warning shows that you are a repeated offender. A repeat offender never gets the benefit of the doubt. </p>
<p>Maybe the punishment is harsh, you knew the consequences and you chose to plagiarize. I think it maybe hard to even get into a small local university let alone Cornell or UC B. Rather than trying to fight this, the best course of action is probably plead guilty for a reduced sentence. A lawyer can't help you, you can face criminal charges for using someone else's work. That is why they invented citations and copyright laws. Turnitin.com was sued for the use of other's works. This is not a small issue, maybe it was just notes, but it was still plagiarism, and therefore is a major infraction.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, there is no right way to do something that you know is wrong.</p>
<p>There was no ambiguity in the teachers assignment. If a teacher says "take notes and turn them in on Friday", it's pretty clear that the teacher is expecting YOUR work. I keep trying to think how the teacher possibly could have given the impression that notes copied off a website were okay, please enlighten me.</p>
<p>The fact that other students did the same thing DOES NOT have anything to do with you. All it means is that there are a lot of underachievers in your AP Bio class and the teacher finally came down on all of you. If 12 people murder someone at the same time, murder does not suddenly become okay. Even if they all claim that they didn't know it was wrong, its still not okay. It does NOTHING to prove ambiguity. If anything, the fact that 12 people are getting in trouble is a testament to how serious the teacher/school is about punishing you.</p>
<p>"I didn't have enough time to do it" is the worst excuse possible. I highly doubt that you spent every waking hour between the assigned date and the due date doing other work. You're really just saying that you don't care enough about the class to make time to do the assignment.</p>
<p>And the fact that the assignment was "just notes" is completely irrelevant. Notes are every bit as important as a term paper. They are supposed to show a knowledge and understanding of the material, even if they are written with the textbook in front of you. Copying off a website 'steals' that sense of understanding from someone else, even if you do actually get the material.</p>
<p>And finally, plagiarizing any work is a great act of disrespect to the teacher. It is saying that you don't think that their class is important, and you are also asserting that they are not intelligent enough to realize that the notes are copied. You made a mock out of her and her work, I don't think she really wants to help you out and drop the 'case'.</p>
<p>Long story short, you're screwed as far as this issue goes. With TWO "academic dishonesty" marks on your record, you'd be lucky to get into the lowest community college. </p>
<p>Pick up a McDonalds job application on your way home from school tomorrow, and better luck next life.</p>
<p>This is great news for me, one less person to compete with trying to get into ILR. Sorry but your really screwed yourself.</p>
<p>I still don't get the difference between taking notes from the textbook and taking notes from the textbook's website....it's note-taking...</p>
<p>The difference is taking notes v. copying. Taking notes to me clearly means summarizing key points.</p>
<p>rsxwheeeeee: Taking notes from the textbook means that you have to read the text and synthesize the information yourself, drawing out important themes and definitions. Copying notes from the textbook website means you're regurgitating what the textbook's authors have to say about what are important themes and material in the book. You're not engaging with the text at the same level when you copy the notes verbatim from an online source as you are when you make your own notes.</p>
<p>If the teacher wanted the students to have the notes copied from the website, he would've either given them the notes as a handout or would've told them that they could simply use the notes from the website as a guide. I'm pretty sure that the teacher's goal was to get the students to engage with the text, extract the important material and downsize it into something memorable. Note-taking (especially from a text) is an important skill to have in college, as many college professors don't cover the text in class. The teacher was attempting to help the students learn that skill. The OP skipped it.</p>
<p>I honestly can't believe that people are advising him to get a lawyer or have his counselor or parents vouch for him. Vouch for what? Fact is, he cheated. There's no grey area and the only reason he doesn't consider it cheating <em>now</em> is because he got caught and is afraid this will jeopardize his chances of admissions to his colleges. Truth is, no matter how big or small -- a homework assignment or a term paper -- cheating in college will at best get you an F on the assignment and will at worst get you expelled from the college altogether. And all of the policies are in the student handbook, so there's no calling of lawyers or asking Mom and Dad to help you out of the mess.</p>
<p>Academic dishonesty is a rising problem on college campuses and universities are doing anything they can to calm the storm, including not accepting known cheaters. Even one case of academic dishonesty can get you rejected, but two?</p>
<p>^ second. </p>
<p>I mean seriously, how hard it is to restate the website's notes in your own words?! That wouldnt be considered copying at all.. if you're going to copy everythign word for word that's pretty obvious..</p>
<p>Frankly while it's clear the guy cheated, I found the assignment to be ridiculous when youre talking about seniors in HS. It's an AP class... if they are so unmotivated to read the chapter or take notes on their own, it is their problem. It sounds like there needed to be a lot of hand holding for the class.. and that 11 kids ended up cheating? Not a very self-motivated bunch.</p>
<p>One thing only the OP can answer: Is this only the 2nd time this has happened or only the 2nd time you got caught?</p>