<p>your a moron</p>
<p>This is outright cheating/plagiarism. Like someone said before if you, as a senior in high school cannot manage your time well in a class that I am sure that you knew was going to be difficult, than you do not belong in the colleges that you are applying to. I don't want to be mean or anything but why did you copy them from the textbook's website? That just doesn't seem rational at all. I understand that you were under a lot of stress but the way that you feel now is nothing compared to what it will be like if you get into the colleges of your choice. And furthermore, in the "real world" out of college you will be under the same amount if not more stress than you are now.</p>
<p>Sorry but what you did was just stupid, and you should take any punishment that they give you. Good thing that they aren't talking about expulsion because at many schools doing something like this even once will get you kicked out (i.e. UVA). For your sake do not try to make up excuses that I am sure the admin will not listen too, and it is absolutely paramount that you do not lie at all.</p>
<p>If you do end up with the F on your transcript, make absolutely sure that your counselor writes letters to all your colleges explaining what happened, and that she will vouch for you, etc. Maybe even have the counselor talk on the phone with the admissions offices to explain exactly what happened(I know commonapp forms have such check boxes), and have her have a nice long chat with the adcoms. That's the only thing that might save you if the F ends up on your transcript.</p>
<p>I am really sorry for your plight. But I am most shocked at the number of people who suggest there was nothing done wrong! This is why this country is where it is!! Integrity is a value that you either have or you don't. You can't just put it on a resume; your behavior determines it.</p>
<p>
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All the time at my old high school people would cheat. Quizzes, homework, etc etc. Even when the teacher had proof that they were cheating, nothing was really done. It was a major problem that was being ignored.
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</p>
<p>True or not, this is absolutely repulsive. Is it any wonder that people are buying 45 million dollar planes and running off with people's life savings? Cheating is submitting work as your own that is not your own. Just because I hand copy Anne of Green Gables and it took me a really long time and I always wanted to be a writer and was just under a lot of pressure. Does this make me the author? Do we see the absurdity here?</p>
<p>Hire a lawyer? That this is the advice instead of the kid accepting responsibility is just ridiculous. (and quite honestly it's also why there is a double standard in this country for those with money and those without. The kid without is kicked out of school not just the class). Am I sorry he is in this position? Absolutely. But if you don't hold people accountable, at what point do they ever truly learn that life is full of consequences for your choices? Shouldnt he have been "scared straight" freshman year?</p>
<p>My son wrote a paper sophomore year where he actually gave reference to the source but failed to put quote marks around one passage. (actually had written something else and decided the exact wording was more concise). Again, one passage (about two sentences) in a 15 page term paper. While he didn't get an F, his grade was docked by two and he got a C- on THE major assignment of the semester. He has never made that mistake again.</p>
<p>We can write all kinds of posts about how fighting this is in the best interest of this kid. But really, is it? Just because it rights his world, what does beating an honor code say about the person who was the one that ignored it?</p>
<p>I am not trying to be sanctimonious and it is too bad this has happened... I am just trying to point out that we cannot suggest integrity exists just because he MIGHT be able to get out of trouble by strong arming the administration. He's a senior, he knew perfectly well what he was doing. </p>
<p>And just because 10 other money manager may be stealing money via schemes and scams, does that make it alright for your broker to do it too?</p>
<p>Moda, while I agree with much of what you say I disagree with your feelings on bringing a lawyer in. This is something many families do when something like this happens. For smart parents this isn't to get the kid off the hook. It's because they understand the consequences can be very, very severe and they want to make certain the outcome is handled properly. </p>
<p>There was a dad who posted a case similar, but actually less serious because it wasn't academic dishonesty, last year. The school seemed to be going a bit overboard and an attorney helped them set the course straight.</p>
<p>The lenght of time between the infractions is a credible defense. Emphasize that in your appeals. Note that in some school systems , ninth grade is not even part of high school.</p>
<p>To quote or paraphrase Heinlein "plead youth and inexperience combined with long and faithful service".In other words maintain it was not deliberate cheating but rather a misinterpretation of the course ground rules. Also point out how long it had been since your prior infraction.</p>
<p>These are "lawyer arguments" but if you are a credible human being, you might have a chance if you give "the powers that be" a figleaf for them cutting you a break.This is a difficult negotiation. You have to simultaneously beg for mercy and demand your right to fair treatment. Are there any cases where other students have been allowed to wiggle out of this in the past? If so this establishes a favorable climate for your appeal.If they have always strictly enforced the policy, you have a problem.</p>
<p>You have to involve your parents.</p>
<p>You are an idiot. But almost all of us have done stupid things at one time or another, sometimes through ignorance, sometimes through bad judgement.</p>
<p>Good Luck, you need it.</p>
<p>HMom.. I agree only insomuch as I don't know the reasonableness of the school. However, a few years back a senior was seen on the security cameras that overlook the parking lot to be smoking weed and then giving a bag to another student. When they walked back into the school, the one kid was busted who had it on his person. They then took the other kid back out to his car and found several bags of pot (not huge bags so not sure where it would fall into "intent to sell."). In any event, his parents hired an attorney to fight the school having kicked the kid out because they said it was an illegal search since the school rents the parking lot from the city. And yes, the lawyer seemed to win the case for them. But again, and I go back to my original point, was it good for the kid?</p>
<p>As it was, a whole new clause about the parking lot is considered school grounds appeared in the student handbook the next year.</p>
<p>I absolutely believe it is important to be honest and direct with the parents as soon as possible. And it wouldn't hurt if you had a teacher or two who know you well who might be willing to be supportive behind the wings. (you'd be surprised how much influence this is in the teacher lounge). </p>
<p>I just really want this country to stop thinking the rules apply to everyone except for the person not abiding by them! We, as adults, have provided a lot of role models where it is not what you do that counts, but how much money you have to excuse or defend the behavior. </p>
<p>While what this student did was absolutely in defiance of expectations, this is also a huge opportunity to really rise to meet the challenge. As Big G says, we all do stupid things. All of us. It's what you do next that counts.</p>
<p>Technically ignorance of the law does not mean you're exempt from it. My question is whether or not he straight-up, word-for-word, copied the notes and submitted them as his own "interpretation of the chapters" or whatever he was supposed to read. If that's the case, you've blatantly plagiarized and the consequences will probably be very grim. If you just used an alternate source of notetaking for a project, then I think the punishment may be unreasonable.</p>
<p>Modadunn, the problem is as I see it, there are more severe penalties for school infractions than criminal infractions. Where I live it is no so tough to either get charges kicked or to get youthful offender status and then have it expunged from record (which is as if it never existed). That to me is not right.</p>
<p>The advice that has given is what you would expect, and I am sure what you are already pursuing (i.e. talking to everyone pertinent, and bringing in your parents) At this point I don't suggest bringing in a lawyer.</p>
<p>i do though have questions for you. You have yet to address other poster's questions on what you were specifically told regarding the assignment..and I hope you do address those posters.</p>
<p>First question, knowing your school's policy (re: 2 infractions) why did you do anything that could reasonably be interpreted to be cheating?</p>
<p>Second question, how much time did you really save by going to the on-line section versus the book? I doubt you saved much time and claiming stress is silly. Many seniors (if not most) are stressed.</p>
<p>The schools you are applying to have honors codes. Even if they accept the F, I am sure they will question whether or not you will be able to "interpret" their honor code with integrity if you had difficulty understanding what would happen with a second offense in your school.</p>
<p>Sorry to be harsh. I hope things work out for you, but more importantly I hope you at least learn how to ascertain the requirements of your assignments.</p>
<p>
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It's not the teacher who's giving me the F grade; that's the school policy for students with two offenses in cheating (altho i feel the second incident isn't cheating, but the teacher wont listen to my shiz).
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<p>First of all, I think you need to wrap your mind around the fact that what you did was cheating. It doesn't matter if you were tired, you were studying or whatever, it was academic dishonesty. If you attend a college with a honor code, this same thing could not only get you a failing grade but get you expelled from college. </p>
<p>(Hmom, Dartmouth takes their honor code very seriously and will Park (expel) you for 3 terms for academic dishonesty and won't even flinch. One of Chicky's friends was a senior with an IB job in hand, made a silly mistake, got parked and could not graduate</p>
<p>post # 143</p>
<p>Even if you took the information straight out of the text book, if you did not cite the source, it was plagarism.</p>
<p>according to the UC Berkeley</p>
<p>
[quote]
Plagiarism is defined by the Berkeley Campus Office of Student Life as a form of Academic Dishonesty, violating the Berkeley Campus Code of Student Conduct which defines plagiarism as follows:</p>
<p>"Plagiarism is defined as the use of intellectual material produced by another person without acknowledging its source. This includes, but is not limited to:
(a.) Copying from the writings or works of others into one's academic assignment without attribution, or submitting such work as if it were one's own;
(b.) Using the views, opinions, or insights of another without acknowledgment; or
(c.) Paraphrasing the characteristic or original phraseology, metaphor, or other literary device of another without proper attribution."
Plagiarism is a serious violation of academic and student conduct rules and is punishable with a failing grade and possibly more severe action. For more information, consult the following UC Berkeley websites:</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As long as you are living in denial, you will not be able to get out of the situation. You need to man-up and admit what you did was wrong. This is a second offense. You are a senior so yes, there is a greater expectation.</p>
<p>The one luxury you have now, that you will not have in college is that you can get your parents involved. You may need their help in salvaging this.</p>
<p>I think a hopeful out come would be taking a grade of "F'' for the assignment only as opposed to taking a grade of "F' for the course. This way if you fail the assignment and you are otherwise passing the course, hopefully you can get a passing grade. You will have less latitude in a private school than you would in a public school.</p>
<p>In my AP Biology class, I was caught cheating by copying notes from an online website...</p>
<p>I had an A+ in the class, the only A+ in the class. The reason she didn't fail me was because I was the best student in the class. I ended up with an A and still ended up at a top 15 institution.</p>
<p>Things can get better... Talk to your teacher and do not stop apologizing! lol</p>
<p>Well, you obviously knew that you needed to hand in the notes, so I don't know how you would convince them that you thought that they were only for your own use. If you study from notes online, you don't generally hand-copy every word verbatim, so I don't think your innocence plea stands a chance.</p>
<p>You have to realize that plagiarism gets you EXPELLED from most colleges, so it is a HUGE deal. It was not a very intelligent idea on your part to copy the notes word for word. I've done my fair share of stupid things, but copying without paraphrasing isn't one of them.</p>
<p>You can't be ****ed at your school for enforcing a rule that you knew about all along. You've even had experience in the matter, so I don't know what to tell you. Get a lawyer and fight like hell, but you are definitely in the wrong here.</p>
<p>Lets put it this way. You're driving on the highway doing 60 and you get pulled over. The speed limit is 55. Does anyone ever get pulled over for 5 mph over? No, not unless you did something else that attracted the officers attention, but you somehow managed to. The only real 'issue' here is that the authorities suddenly decided to enforce a clearly worded but often overlooked law. By any account, you did actually break the law, and you have no real defense because their deciding to call you out for it reflects no problem on their side. Long story short, you don't HAVE a defense in this situation, so start begging for mercy now.</p>
<p>Were you being graded on the quality of these notes?</p>
<p>If you were, and you turned in work that you had plagiarized and claimed it as your own, you're out of luck.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you were asked turn something in to show that you were studying effectively for the exam so that the teacher could see whether you were on the right track, you have an argument.</p>
<p>If you homestly believed you were being asked to do the latter, then that's what you should say.</p>
<p>But if you knew you were being graded on the quality of your outline, don't compound your mistake by lying about it.</p>
<p>Sybbie, if DS cheats, Parkhursting will look like nothing compared to what mom and dad will do. Have I mentioned DH is an expert on corporate ethics?</p>
<p>Ethics ??. Check, and DS would be in some serious check.</p>
<p>Do you remember the days when your kids beg you to get on with the punsihment vs. the talking to about what they did wrong? ;)</p>
<p>All the plagiarism cases I've handled involved international students who really, truly didn't know better because of different cultural approaches to research and writing. Since I was the first one to assign them a paper, I was the one to "catch" them. I gave each of them a warning, an education in plagiarism, a bunch of material on citing sources properly, and a clear understanding of the consequences of future plagiarism: Removal from the academic program, and possibly expulsion from the university.</p>
<p>@onlyiknow:
You had no such excuse. You knew, at minimum, that you were turning in someone else's work for credit. And now your only concern seems to be what's going to happen to you, now that you've been caught cheating for the second time. You don't seem to have accepted responsibility for your actions, either this time ("seriously this bio notes deal does not seem like cheating at all") or the previous time you were caught ("when i was an immature freshman cheating on a test"). If a student came to me with this attitude, I would unhesitatingly recommend his expulsion.</p>
<p>Forget Cornell and the other top colleges: Even my public state university doesn't want you, if you are a cheat. I hope you'll get that through your head. You cheated. You were caught, twice. And now you're making excuses for yourself right and left, which demonstrates that you still don't get it.</p>
<p>This message is not meant to be harsh, but objective. Based on how you've presented your case here, I'm telling you what I would infer as someone who participates and votes in expulsion decisions. Does that mean it's over? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on them and depends on you.</p>
<p>I can't say what your school administrators might do, but I can tell you what approaches would not work in my university or in my son's high school:
- blaming the teacher
- pointing out that other students did it too
- insisting that this wasn't a serious offense
- whining that you were just too busy to do your own work
- complaining about the punishment (it's in the handbook, no?)
- complaining about the effect on your college options
- lawyering up</p>
<p>What we would be looking for, if we had any inclination to make an exception for you, is a demonstrated understanding of the serious nature of your offense(s), accompanied by appropriate remorse and a sincere desire to make good. We would be looking for evidence that you have learned deeply from this experience, taken personal responsibility for your actions, and resolved nevereverever to try gaming the system again.</p>
<p>If you have come to this understanding, then your teacher has done you a great service already... and I sincerely wish you luck in making your case tomorrow.</p>
<p>xmas
"the teacher would not have assigned homework that is beyond the students' capacities."</p>
<p>That is bull. Some teachers act like their class is the only one that exists.</p>
<p>"People are trying to be funny and its really not. It's serious, so get a life people.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the best thing to do right now is to be aggressive. Confront the teacher first and tell your side of the story... if that doesn't work, then talk to your parents and harass the administration..."</p>
<p>You've got to be kidding me-you're joking, right? He cheated- what other side of the story is there? And harass the organization with his parents? Because their poor son got what he deserved? What you're proposing is a bailout- and except the subject being a corporation that employs millions, its a dim college-bound senior who apparently doesn't like to think things through-and is probably the last thing any prestigious university needs. Hm, perhaps Michael Vick would've received some clemency if he was just a bit more aggressive.</p>
<p>^ I guess the real situation is not whether he cheated but whether the punishment is too extreme for him in terms of what he did (not what he wants).</p>