HS Senior schedule help, please!

College Majors Music Major
1

I was going to post this on the Admissions board, but I think only “music parents” will understand this conflict.

D had her senior schedule for next year all settled…until today. The Choir Director pulled her aside and asked her to audition for the Jazz Choir. Auditions are officially closed and a lot of kids auditioned. It is a small group. He took a lot of time going over why she would be a good fit and discussing options to make room in her schedule. He gave her the sheet music and asked her to learn it tonight and audition tomorrow or at least consider it. I have a feeling how she does on the audition will not matter!

Anyway, she has wanted to do Jazz Choir since she learned about it in 8th grade. She just has never been able to work it into her schedule and kind of gave up on the idea. Now she seems excited and wants to make it work. These are the classes she’d have to consider giving up:

3rd year of Honors Science (only 2 are required to graduate, but this could limit her college choices - including one of her top choices, Belmont). She hates science and would love to hear it’s really not important! If it would not hurt college admissions, this would be the easy choice.

4th year of Honors Math (Pre-Calc) (again not required, but may limit college choices and many sophomores and juniors have already had Pre-Calc) Otherwise, she’d probably be happy to give it up!

AP Spanish - (She looooooooooves Spanish! Obviously, she does not need this 4th year of Spanish, but she is seriously considering Spanish as a minor at some of the schools / programs she is looking at. Also, if she drops this, she would only be taking 1 AP class - down from 3 this year. There are really no other AP options for her in lieu of this for various reasons.

(Any of the above options would also hurt her GPA / Class rank because it would eliminate a weighted class.)

The only other option I see is summer school for another (standard) required class. and that would eliminate any music camps and a summer job.

So, should she skip the Jazz Choir or one of the above? Do you think it’s a mistake to even audition if she may not sign up? Or is it worse to not audition after being asked to?

Ugh! If only PE weren’t required!

2

Another option, if your school permits it, is an on-line course. We are in a state that requires PE every year and my daughter took it on-line senior year. It did cost a couple hundred dollars, but it allowed her to fit everything she wanted in her schedule. (Beware I think this was harder than in class PE. My D took jogging for one semester and had to keep a log. I think she ran a total of 100miles! This was tough on top of all her music ECs.) On-line classes can usually be started over the summer which helps manage the work load, and their flexibility still allows camps or a job.

I wouldn’t worry about the class rank impact unless she’s on the cusp of a key cut off AND you are considering schools where that’s a hard screening criteria. Many schools also look at unweighted GPA, and that won’t be impacted by her choice.

If you go the route to drop math, science or Spanish, I think you are considering the right factors in looking at college requirements and potential AP credit. If your D is set on music, the Jazz choir may be more helpful than an extra class that is not needed.

3

Online can work well. My older son who is a junior in college actually took 3rd year Spanish online in high school because he didn’t want to take the class at the high school. Whatever class you choose to do online (if that’s a viable option in your district) can be done over the summer too! It’s flexible and that’s nice. My younger son takes 2 music classes in his high school schedule and ended up taking a health class online over the summer so he could meet his graduation requirements and still take his beloved and (in our minds) necessary music classes.

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@dbandmom-I may have missed something, but what does your daughter intend to major in? It’s hard for us to make any intelligent comments without knowing that.

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HS science is not particularly useful unless you have an exceptional teacher. Most colleges will make students retake college biology even if they have AP credit. Same for physics and chemistry. So a third year of honors science, if it is not needed by the schools she is applying to might be something to consider dropping. If it is required maybe she could take it at a community college, where the curriculum might be better suited to her and she might be surprised and find that she likes science.

My daughter wanted to go to college for acting and theater. She decided not to take science her senior year. She told us she hated science and math and never wanted to take another science or math class again. She got into her top choice school and went and after a year decided to leave as she was rethinking going into acting. When she returned to school she went to a small all girl’s liberal arts school for year and decided she was going to major in psychology. A requirement for that major was basic college chemistry. She took it an the professor was wonderful and this science hating girl suddenly did an about-face with her career and goals.

These days she is in her final semester to become a nurse practitioner. I suppose one might say she is still acting. But she also is pretty knowledgeable about science these days as well.

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Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

I put a call in to the school about online options, but did not hear back today. Maybe Monday. I’m looking at the school website and it doesn’t look very promising, though.

@Mezzo’sMama- D is considering multiple music related majors at this point. She is leaning toward songwriting, commercial music, contemporary writing and production (something along those lines) and is still considering a bunch of others. Basically, she is interested in multiple programs depending on the school.

@StacJip - I love your story! I think that is great! Actually, something that has really been bothering me throughout this whole HS / college preparation process with my first child, is that it seems so difficult for her to find the opportunities to explore a variety of electives / activities and really discover who she is and what she wants to do. It feels like kids need to know at the age of 13 what they want to do with the rest of their lives. I think this is especially true for kids that are interested in music. There is little time and opportunity for anything else. I don’t know. I just don’t remember feeling that kind of pressure as a teen. So, did your daughter graduate with 3 years of science and 3 (or 4) years of math?

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@dandbmom - I don’t think there’s any reason your daughter could not have a terrific experience in college without having to choose her path beforehand. She could go to most colleges and universities undecided and take classes in music, perhaps deciding to major in music, perhaps not - and still become a songwriter, play in a band, produce records. One does not need to find a school with such dedicated pre-professional majors unless your daughter is entirely focused on her career goals rather than a more general exploration. For instance, both my sons who attended two quite different liberal arts colleges - one known for economics and government, the other more arts oriented, both have good friends who ended up forming bands, writing music, recording albums - yet the friends did not necessarily even major in music. (Indeed one was pre-med and just finished med school with a joint MBA - all the while playing music with his band.)

My own advice re her schedule - I would beware of narrowing her choices for college if you can avoid it. Who she’ll be in May of her Senior year is still unknown and the more choices she has, the better. I think the online option is a good one. My younger son took math online for a number of years in high school to free up his schedule for other classes he wanted to take.

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I don’t know if this matters in this instance at all, but if she might end up being serious about pursuing a high level of music production, at some schools precalc is a prereq, and math and science scores are very germane. So ditto being wary about narrowing choices via dropping the more rigorous math and science classes (especially if the science is physics.)

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I’ll push back and say that if she has truly wanted to do Jazz Choir since 8th grade, and if it could be a transformative experience, then she should consider skipping one of the academic classes. There are other ways to get those academic classes: online, at CC (either in the evenings or summer). And she may not need them. Of course the most conservative advice is never to narrow your options. If my own four kids had never narrowed their options they would not have gone to their first-choice colleges.

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@dbandmom‌ - Check your student handbook to see if it mentions on-line/correspondence courses. Ours covers it in Graduation Requirements section. In our district, students are limited to transfer in 2 units from on-line courses, and must have pre-approval. Our D handled everything with her guidance counselor - the GC gave her the links to recommended on-line program, forms to fill out, etc. Good luck!

@StacJip‌ - AP credit varies a lot by university (and colleges within universities). My D got full credit for AP bio, chem and calc. She would have also gotten physics credit as well if she had scored a 5 on the exam. Most (but not all) of the schools she considered gave credit for these classes. Since she’s dual degree, going in with lots of AP credit was huge for her.

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I have just read through the student handbook for the second time and here is what it says about online / correspondence courses (in part):

“courses may not be substituted for required courses or for any course currently offered at the school”

So, if I’m reading that right, this will not help her. Of course, I’m still going to have her talk to her counselor. It is possible there are loopholes. Online PE would be ideal.

Re: summer school / community college

The only classes offered that apply to her situation are Econ and Gov. As I mentioned, the trade-off for this option is that it will eliminate her ability to participate in the music camps we were considering and possibly her summer job.

It is probably going to come down to deciding between Jazz Choir and AP Spanish. I don’t know how much of a negative impact there would be going from 3 AP’s one year down to 1 AP the next year.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. This whole experience will be so much less stressful for my younger daughter. They started offering Spanish beginning in elementary school and she will enter HS in Spanish III. She has recently been losing interest in music and has decided not to continue at the HS level. I do not foresee her in many (if any) Honors level or AP classes. Frankly, I will be relieved!

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My daughter dropped both a year and a level of math (from AP to honors) in order to take a music theory class at our small school. She also was not able to schedule a 4th year of science due to scheduling issues at the school. The guidance counselor wrote a note to accompany her transcript. She ended up at an Ivy.

That said, one of the other years she took some online classes (two, as I remember, AP environmental science and AP US History). We paid $400 for each. Virtual High School is one (they have a certain amount per week to get done) and Aventa Learning (through educere, you can google it; Aventa lets you get work done at your own pace which is good for performers). These days many community and other colleges also have online classes that would satisfy the high school easily.

Our experience with online classes was so positive that we advocated for the school to join Virtual High School. Kids in the school AP class were getting 2’s and 3’s on the AP exam; with the online course my daughter got a 5, which helped in advocacy. Our local education foundation raised the funds and now 25 students each semester have slots to take classes and the students love it.

I think you daughter should do what enriches her and what she loves and there is truly a way to make it work.

With a musician and a dancer in the family who both had unusual paths in high school, I can tell you that colleges love to see “outliers” and appreciate kids who veer off the AP conveyor belt to pursue a genuine interest. It would be different if your daughter loved science. And keep the Spanish too!

Just make sure her choices are understood by colleges and that basic requirements are met.

Finally-and sorry so long- Spirit Manage raises a great point. There are many ways to keep doing music. Here is a good essay to read: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html
Also be aware of the amazing schools that are test optional if you are worried about SAT’s etc: http://fairtest.org/university/optional

Students can continue music in a conservatory BM program, a college/university BM or BA program, double degree, double major, major/minor, and can also continue privately while majoring in something else. She doesn’t have to decide yet or even in a year. Just hope she can enjoy jazz choir for her last year of high school!

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I’m in the “go for jazz choir camp”!

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I’ve looked at most pre requisites at colleges and i’d drop the 4th year of math and keep the 3rd year of science. My son applied to private liberal arts schools and didn’t have 4 years of science and was still accepted as a music major. He just explained why. He also is taking modern lit this semester because he knew that he wouldn’t be able to make up the longer writing assignments in advanced composition from his many abscences during auditions. He is doing a lot of writing still, just not 15 page papers.

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Also. My son is not in any math or science senior year (already had 4 years of math and 3 of science). All those ridiculous essays he had to write and all the college apps and music supplemental apps were extremely time consuming. And then figuring out the audition scheduling… andu don’t forget preparing for prescreens. It was still a tough semester. Lighten senior year if you can. It was rough for him and he just got influenza and had to practice with influenza because auditions are next week.

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Cellomom, I hope that your son plays cello as your name suggests! I can’t imagine what singers or horn players do when it comes time to audition with the flu. I wish him a speedy recovery!
My D also lightened her load in senior year and we really feel it was a good idea. She took the fourth year of language, a fourth year of math, and dropped the science. (She also took band, econ and English.) It is what she wanted to do - none of the remaining sciences looked good to her. The extra time was spent writing those essays, practicing, recording prescreens, and staying a little more sane during a very busy senior year. And, this meant that she had time and energy to do the regular Senior class things, which was nice for her. She got into most of her schools.

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Horn players need so much power so do flute players…yikes. I’m glad he plays the cello. The flu season is bad this year. This is a sign to have a recording ready. What if u come down with influenza the morning of auditions? It comes fast and hard. Yuck

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dbandmom,
My daughter did Earth Science and Algebra 2 in 9nth grade, Biology and Geometry in 10nth grade and Chemistry and Precalc in 11th grade. She basically followed the program that the majority of college bound kids follow in our HS until her senior year when she decided to not take science. I think she did Calculus her senior year but she had to take it over again in college because it was required for the programs she was applying to for graduate school. Also the Calc she did was not nearly as thorough as a full semester of college calculus. And I honestly don’t think she cracked open the textbook her senior year.

My other son is also an example that what you do in HS does not matter as much as we tend to believe. For complex reasons due to his learning challenges and health issues he has ZERO math and ZERO science by his senior year. He did a summer program and came back and wanted to push himself and asked if he could take an extension school chemistry class at a local ivy league university. Everyone told him this was INSANE. And it was. He had yet to pass a single Algebra class let alone a science class. But he insisted and ended up dong very well. He was admitted to a good but certainly not top tier liberal arts school. He taught himself a lot of math over the years and ended up skipping many introductory courses. Somehow this kid managed to catch up and now is a first year PhD student in Mathematics at a tier one program. So go figure.

None of your daughter’s choices are going to hamper what she can or can not do in her future. What is important (AND I MEAN REALLY IMPORTANT) is that your kid get through high school happy, mentally healthy, with some amount of self esteem and belief in themselves.

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That was said so well stacjip

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I think there is a lot of hype about college admissions that simply aren’t true, and things like “if you don’t do X, you don’t get in” doesn’t always mean its the truth, either. It all depends on what the kid plans on doing in college and where they are coming from. For example, from what I know, a lot of colleges only want to see the unweighted GPA, because there are schools where they basically classify everything as ‘honors’, blowing the kids GPA’s out, so that may not be a big deal.

More importantly, they look at what the kid has done. One thing schools recognize, whether the kid is planning on majoring in performance or deciding to go the academic route,is that with music for example it can be very time consuming, with lessons and practicing and potentially music theory and ensembles and choirs and so forth. They know the amount of discipline, so even if they are used to the hyper kids of tiger parents that have great GPA’s, 10 AP classes, all the right EC’s and so forth, they will understand that someone in music may not have the space to do all that, and they know how tough it is with kids involved in music. I do know they don’t compare apples to oranges, they do look at the whole picture, and while if a non music student skipped the ‘requisite’ courses, they might ask why, they do look at the whole picture despite what people think. And quite honestly, just speaking for myself, I would question if a school that would sit back and say “oh, you don’t have 4 years of math and science, reject pile” without looking why might be useless as a school, would show a lot of tunnel blindness and such (I am not the only one, there is a book out there, by a former Yale professor, called ‘A nation of sheep’ that makes some points similar to mine).

With a program like Belmont, that has well respected music programs, they would more than likely understand that every kid is different…and I know for a fact that the Ivy league universities definitely look at the entire picture.

I agree with those who say if she wants to do the jazz ensemble, do it, if she has a musical background it is a big plus on admissions to a lot of schools, as long as scheduling it won’t make her stressed out, that could be a problem…my son in middle school because they wanted him in all these ensembles and such, ended up doing things like taking Latin as an independent study, had no lunch time, it was ridiculous, so also make sure it won’t have her stressing out with time and such.