HS Sophomore requests parental wisdom regarding early graduation

Parents Social Lounge
1

<p>Hi, this is my first post. I am interested in studying science/pre-med in college. I am currently in pre-calc, chem 2, honors English, Spanish 3, band, choir, jazz band. I am also taking AP US History through the CTD(learning links) at Northwestern University. My high school has very weak calculus and physics, so I was planning to take these classes in the summer program at Northwestern this summer. My principal just informed us that they would count these courses toward my graduation credits but would not allow honors credit for them. My school has weighted grades for honors classes and these are very inflated so most juniors and seniors have pretty high gpa's. I am currently in the top 5 of my class of 220. The dilemma I am facing is: do I take classes that I know will not prepare me for college and have a high rank or take the classes at Northwestern and sacrifice my rank because even if I get A's I'll be on a 4 point as opposed to a 5 point scale.</p>

<p>My gut reaction is to jump ship and graduate at the end of next year. My brother did this a couple years ago and has been successful in his college classes at Lawrence University.</p>

<p>My questions are
1. Am I insane?
2. If not, does anyone have suggestions for possible schools?
These are my stats: ACT=27 grade 9, PSAT=CR62 M58 WS69 grade 10, My current GPA is 4.28 My core course work is as follows:
Grade 8- Bio 1, geometry (I took these at the high school but they will not count them towards graduation)
Grade 9- Chem 1, Honors English, Algebra 2, World Geo,
Grade 10- Chem 2, Honors English, Pre-calc, AP US
Grade 11-AP English, Advanced Composition, Bio 2 or Anatomy and Physiology,AP Gov, AP Euro, Spanish 4 It would take a miracle for all of these to fit in my schedule.
No matter what I decide to do ill take AP Calculus and one other class at Northwestern this summer.
Also, my school has no math higher than Calculus AB
I would prefer to go to a college outside the Midwest but that is not a necessity. I play varsity tennis and would be interested in playing at a DivIII school. I also play trumpet and have made our state honors band. I have been a state winner in piano but do not intend to continue piano in college. </p>

<p>Thank you in advance for any wisdom you can share.</p>

2

<p>There was a thread on this topic recently:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1689464#post1689464%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1689464#post1689464&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>When my son was a junior (two years ago), he got literature from USC stating that they have a special application process and specific program for kids who graduate early.</p>

<p>Are you insane? No. However, when I think back on how much my son grew and matured as a senior, and what great experiences he had, I think it would have been a great shame for him to miss that. But kids differ. So, my approach as a parent would be "rebuttable skepticism". </p>

<p>You also have the benefit of your brother's experience--presumably, the pros and cons of his decision.</p>

<p>Class choice: Issues like yours are exactly why so many high schools, including ours, no longer publish class rank. My view as to class choice is that you should do what is best for yourself educationally and forget about class rank. It is so hard to keep in mind that the goal here is to get a good education. A year's worth of your mind's development is far more important than a few slots of class rank. If you agree, then finding the courage to break away from the oppressive, prevailing mindset about the purpose of high school could also very important for you.</p>

<p>One thing that argues in favor of early graduation is that your school can't teach you the math you'll be needing. As it is, I personally don't like you just stopping math after this summer. Can't you take more math online, instead of one of your listed classes? You'll have senior year, or freshman year in college, to take some of those classes that you would like to take but can't fit in to your schedule.</p>

<p>Can your school keep you occupied as a senior, even if you have to do math outside of the school? Given the number of classes you hope to take next year, it sounds like maybe it can.</p>

<p>Will you have just as good tennis opportunities if you leave early? Will you be missing important high school competitions? My son had a very successful senior year in his high school sport. Literally, he will remember a few of those events for the rest of his life. For him, that was very important--but maybe not for you. Same thing with social events, prom, etc. Very important for him, but maybe not for you. Also for his main EC--he grew a lot, learned a lot, is still doing it in college. Again, important for him, maybe not for you.</p>

<p>So, I guess my overall advice is to look beyond the class availability issue and the class rank issue and think about your own maturity and how important your social experience at high school has been for you so far. Many curriculum issues can be worked around or tolerated--but you only get one senior year. Therefore, try to think about how important that "senior" experience could be for you. And--think about specific colleges, but wait a good long time before you make your decision. You'll grow during that waiting period.</p>

<p>Keep us posted! Lots of people here give really good advice.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your response ADad. You have given my situation more thought than my high school principal or counselor. </p>

<p>Regarding the math issue, my high school has not offered any guidance except that I should take AP Calc my junior year and that I can take AP Stats my senior year. My school has poor past performance on all AP exams but especially math ones. It also has a poor record of college placement. The top students are guided to the main state university and teachers gear the level to passing (3's) on the AP's. This is part of the reason my brother left early.</p>

<p>I should mention that I would consider the option of open enrolling to a neighboring high school, but while they offer more science and social studies, they also end at AP calc. At my current school I would have two very strong advocates and recommending teachers in the English and science departments. They are both trying to help me work through this.</p>

<p>While I am trying to keep my options open I do want to consider schools that might be realistic for me. I listed my stats before and will take the ACT again in June and have been planning to self prep for the PSAT and SAT next Oct.
The schools I have thought of that I and my parents feel would provide a good overall education and pre-med if necessary are St. Olaf, Lawrence, University of Rochester, Oberlin,U of Mich.and UWisc(my state school) My dream school might be Rice however I know I couldn't play tennis there or at UM or UW. Are there other similar schools that parents know of that aren't so close to home? I'd really like to experience a different part of the country and students from different backgrounds.</p>

<p>Thanks for any suggestions you might have.</p>

4

<p>trompette:</p>

<p>My S graduated early. His school did not rank him, as it ordinarily ranks students at the end of junior year, so the rank was not available when he was applying to colleges. It also does not weight classes; finally, he took a load of college classes (9) which all were recorded P/F on this transcript, rendering the GPA meaningless. I'm sure the admission committees (he applied to two schools, got into both) did not bother consider his GPA. He did have very high PSAT, SAT, and SAT-IIs as well as 6 APs(4 APs at the time he applied, all 5s) on top of his college courses. This made a difference to the admissions committees, I'm sure.
I was told by one admission dean that colleges do not give any slack to early graduates, and see any weakness in their record as a sign that they would be better off spending another year in high school. So you'll need to bring up the SAT scores and take SAT-IIs at the end of this year if you want to apply next fall.
Regarding math, you can, of course, take AP-Calc through NW CTD; or, as ADad suggests, you could take it online through EPGY during the school year.
The schools you've listed are so different from one another in terms of size, atmosphere, geographical location, it's hard to give advice. One school you might consider is Duke.</p>

5

<p>Thanks Marite, You're right, my scores are low but have made steady increaseseach year. I'll take the AP USH and AP Chem this May.
I'm planning to take Sat II's in June: US History, Chem, Math II</p>

<p>The schools I listed are the ones I'm familiar with. I hadn't really started looking before.</p>

6

<p>". My principal just informed us that they would count these courses toward my graduation credits but would not allow honors credit for them. My school has weighted grades for honors classes and these are very inflated so most juniors and seniors have pretty high gpa's. I am currently in the top 5 of my class of 220. The dilemma I am facing is: do I take classes that I know will not prepare me for college and have a high rank or take the classes at Northwestern and sacrifice my rank because even if I get A's I'll be on a 4 point as opposed to a 5 point scale."</p>

<p>Most colleges recalculate gpas, giving more weight to college, AP, IB and possibly honors classes. Consequently, for most colleges, your taking classes at Northwestern will be more impressive than your taking your regular h.s. curriculum.</p>

<p>Colleges do look at rank, but you can ask your GC to explain how your rank would have been higher if your school had given more weight to your Northwestern classes. Colleges will take that into consideration.</p>

<p>"My gut reaction is to jump ship and graduate at the end of next year."</p>

<p>I don't see a reason to do that. There is so much that you could learn about yourself in that additional year of high school -- things that would be valuable for the rest of your life.</p>

<p>This could include being able to run with an EC, including implementing your ideas, taking a leadership position -- and accomplishing real things through it -- taking classes or doing activities that you've long been interested in, but haven't had a chance to try out.</p>

<p>While you may think that you can do some of these things in college, it would be to your advantage to do them in h.s. Your h.s. experience would mean that you'd have the chance in h.s. to make beginner's errors and learn the basics, which means that you'd start at a higher level in college, which could lead to your being fast tracked to leadership and other opportunities.</p>

<p>You'd also have a better idea of what kinds of things you love and are good at, and that would help you connect quicker in college with people, classes and activities that are good matches for you.</p>

<p>The extra year in h.s. is likely to give you the chance to be a better tennis player, and to have a stronger shot at the college team. You also could have time to further explore your music interests -- composing music, starting music groups, teaching lessons, going to a music camp, even taking up a new instrument -- things that might be harder for you to do in college where it will take you a while to get to know people, and where having prior experience doing such things would be an advantage.</p>

<p>Based on what you've posted, I don't see advantages in rushing through h.s.</p>

<p>In addition, the extra year means that your SAT and ACT scores probably will be higher than they would be if you graduated a year early. This will expand your college options, and also may help you have a better shot at honors programs and merit aid, if finances would be important to you.</p>

7

<p>I would also recommend against graduating early. My son has been bored throughout high school. We had just never thought about graduating early, so that idea had not come up. But, I am so glad we didn't. He has complained constantly how he hates high school because he is bored. Has taken the most rigorous courses - very strong in math and sciences. This year, however, has been great socially for him. He has found a different group of kids to hang out with. He actually went out on a date. He is taking an AP English class (his least favorite class) and he works very hard in that class. He probably working harder in this class than he has combined in all classses in the prior three years. He has become more serious about music. He still complains that his other courses are boring. So, even though the math and science challenges are not there, he has found he has the time to put into English and music, things he likely would not have done. There is something about being a senior that has changed him considerably. There is something special about that last year of high school. Think whether you want to miss out on that. You are still young and getting to college one year earlier is not going to matter that much down the road. If you have maxed out in the courses that you are interested in, try something that you may not like. Good luck with your decision.</p>

8

<p>Then again - with 8-12 years of pre-med/medical school still to go there is always the argument that it would be better to get a head start. </p>

<p>That said - I'd tell my own son to forget about class rank, enjoy your senior year and take the classes you would challenge you the most through a college program like NW</p>

9

<p>Whether or not a student should graduate early depends on a lot of factors. I do not think students should be bored in school. If it's a matter of exploring new subjects they might not otherwise have taken, there are hundreds more classes to choose from in college than in a high school. If my S had stayed another year in high school, he would have ended up taking mostly college classes since he'd more than covered the regular curriculum and had no interest in learning carpentry, cooking, or taking some of the more academic but totally unchallenging classes the school had to offer.
If it's a matter of "enjoying senior year," it depends. A bored student will probably not enjoy himself or herself. Boredom has been the bane of my S's k-12 career. I have not heard one complaint on this topic since the start of college last September.</p>

<p>That said, students should not race through the curriculum and cut corners in order to attend college earlier. And some students may be intellectually ready but emotionally or socially not quite ready for the greater independence and sense of responsibility they will need to exercise in college.</p>

10

<p>I am disappointed that your school seems to consider AB Calculus next year and then AP Stats to be a satisfactory option. IMO, that would mean going from being significantly advanced in the normal math sequence for your age to, well, not being significantly advanced. IMO Stats are better taken in college when you can take a stats course more tailored to your major field of study.</p>

<p>The nearby high school would be a good option for next year if they offered BC Calculus (if you decided not to take it this summer). If you are able to drive to Northwestern, perhaps you are near enough to consider staying for your senior year and taking some classes at UW-Parkside in your junior and/or senior years.</p>

11

<p>Again thank you all for your advice. I obviously need to do a lot more thinking on this topic and you have all brought up important points i may have overlooked. Also, regardless of what i decide, are there any suggestions on some schools with strong pre-med programs.</p>

12

<p>I skipped my senior year in high school, entering UCLA at 16. Many decades later, I think it was a huge mistake. I missed out on a lot of rites of passage that you can never get back. I raced through what should be a time for exploration, change and growth. I wish I'd taken my time and gone through all the stages and experiences that change you from a teenager to an adult. I can't believe I'm saying this (and luckily my son isn't on these boards) but there is more to life than smarts and sometimes you can learn more from your day to day experiences than in any class.</p>

13

<p>My senior year was my most fun year mostly because I was able to take a light load, have time to serve the school's IT and video department (more time spent there than in class), and was able to pretty much be with my friends all the time. Study halls were parties almost all the time. Also, one of the best parts of being a senior is taking freshmen under your wing and being like a big brother for them. I had about five people who I was there for, and it really felt great (especially since I have no siblings to call my own).</p>

<p>Definitely enjoy high school. You may think it's bad now but it's like wine--gets better with age. I was pretty apathetic even a year ago, but now that I look back on it I realized that my best days are probably behind me (2001-2005, high school). Times when you didn't have to panic like you do in college, when the biggest worry was who your best buddy was dating, and when you gained a lot of new freedoms (driving, voting, etc).</p>

<p>Oh, and you're not insane. My buddy's sister is taking a similar schedule as a sophomore.</p>

14

<p>Reading these posts, I am struck that, once again, it depends on the individual student. All the things that have been listed are things my S would have disliked. He had too many study halls owing to his taking some classes in college and he was bored with them. He did not want to take a light load, and was happy with the ECs he was involved in. </p>

<p>The biggest concern for him was that he was bored with high school.
If he could have tweaked his schedule even more than he did, he would have taken more college classes. What he felt he missed was not the high school experience but the full college experience. He is so glad to be in college now and having that experience. He does not regret high school one bit.</p>

15

<p>Marite, I certainly understand your son and his decision. S1 of mine had several offers (unsolicited) to attend college after junior year, and S2 is even farther advanced. Neither of them chose to leave early.</p>

<p>That said, I think every year that goes by it becomes easier and easier for schools to accommodate students like our boys and trompette, because of the amazing technology available. S2 finished HS curriculum last year, yet is very happy with advanced math & science online with a teacher as mentor. Humanities are filled up w/electives & IS, and he still gets to participate in his arts and athletics activities.</p>

<p>Trompette--don't worry about the ranking or credit or whatever, be concerned only about what you're learning. The colleges that you apply to will figure it out, that you are learning as much as possible. The admissions committees are not stupid, and unless you are only interested in HUGE state universities, they won't sort you out based on your HS' ranking policy. </p>

<p>You need to enlist your parents to go to bat for you, contacting the principal, superintendent or trustees, and school board if necessary, to get what it is that you need. Yes, you'll have to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but I'll bet you can do it. The reason you need your parents is that they 1) can vote, if you are at a government school OR 2) pay the tuition bills, if you're at a private.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

16

<p>There's lots of good advice here. I agree that the decision to graduate early is an individual one based on a number of considerations. I thought my S would graduate early, having exhausted the high school math curriculum before entering high school. He took college courses and got involved with math competitions and thoroughly enjoyed his senior year.</p>

<p>If you plan to play tennis in college, I would seriously consider waiting. The one thing that can't be sped up is your physical development which can make a huge difference with a sport. My S had no intention of doing a sport in college. However, he became quite good at a sport his senior year and is now on a Div. 1 team in college, and that's all he talks about.</p>

<p>By the way, he has been given the option of finishing college in three years and says he won't even consider it, even though he plans to pursue a PhD.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
By the way, he has been given the option of finishing college in three years and says he won't even consider it, even though he plans to pursue a PhD.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's exactly what my S feels. That is also what the majority of students who come to HYP with Advanced Standing eligibity feel. There's so much more to learn in college.</p>

18

<p>trompette - one more thing to consider. Some colleges offer an "early admission" option. This is different than "early action". What the "early admission" option means is that the college will consider admitting a student after their junior year in high school.</p>

<p>In other words, you can stay on track to graduate in 4 years at your high school, and ALSO apply during your junior year to some colleges for admission the following fall. This is a way to keep your options open. </p>

<p>My d. had a good friend who graduated early from high school and applied to about 20 colleges, but got rejected by all except the state u and his safeties. He's doing fine now at the state u... but of course I wonder whether his chances would have been better with another year of high school.</p>

<p>I personally graduated from high school in 3 years, starting as a freshman on a UC campus at age 16, and I never regretted that decision... but I wouldn't have wanted my kids to do the same. The reality is that you only get to be 17 once... and kids who take an accellerated path do miss out on some of the fun stuff along the way.</p>

19

<p>My reading of a lot of the posts so far are that those who tend to favor staying for a senior year seem to have a longer term perspective in mind: many of them seem to believe that that staying around pays dividends over a long period of time. Those who favor leaving seem to be emphasizing more the immediate benefits of entering college life. Just my reading.</p>

<p>Perhaps people's viewpoints also depend on what their alternatives in high school actually are: the early graduaters might well have wanted to stay, and could see long-term benefits of doing so, but the current costs of boredom in school were just too high.</p>

<p>Therefore, perhaps one way to look at it is to say that, before deciding to graduate early, one might first make every effort--particularly with high-school administration--to make high school flexible and academically palatable (to minimize the cost of getting those perceived long-term benefits).</p>

20

<p>My son left high school after his junior year to attend MIT. It has been mostly successful. He wasn't much interested in staying at HS in any case--all of his friends were graduating.</p>

<p>And that, to me, is the big issue. Are most of your friends older? Have you tapped out the offerings of your high school? If both answers are yes, time to move on. Maybe. If you REALLY REALLY like the idea.</p>