<p>
</p>
<p>How do you enroll in a college without arranging for a final transcript to be sent from the high school? I’m pretty sure that my kid’s high schools have excellent records as to where they have sent transcripts. Even when my son was applying as a transfer, 5 years after his high school graduation, he had to go back to his high school guidance office to arrange for a transcript.</p>
<p>Quote:
Nobody wants fines but my take would be if you want to use the school’s counselors you agree to report your data.</p>
<p>At a public high school, the school has an obligation to do certain things for the student. Sending out transcripts on request is one of those obligations. The school’s counselors are also paid to fulfill a certain set of tasks – the student isn’t obligated to repay them in any particular way for doing their job. It may be a nice thing to do – students aren’t obligated to write thank-you notes or give teachers end-of-the-year gifts, either, but they do so routinely – but there again is the difference between doing something voluntarily, or being forced or coerced to do it.</p>
<p>My kids did not attend schools using Naviance – something I appreciate. (I think Naviance is a crock anyway, or at least would have been in the context of the type of schools my kids attended.) My son’s g.c. was a very nice lady but did absolutely nothing to help guide his college process – he had to do a lot of reminding to make sure things got filed on time, including the paperwork for his National Merit status. Both my kids were expected to take care of obtaining and ensuring mailing of teacher recs on their own.</p>
<p>I don’t want to sound unappreciative. The staff at my kids’ schools were busy and sincere people who did their best, but there wasn’t much hand holding. </p>
<p>Calmom…I couldn’t have said it any better.</p>
<p>Could someone tell me how to quote. I am not a forum person and apparently not too bright.</p>
<p>Odessey Tigger stated:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m not sure how anyone can identify a point on the Naviance graph as a particular student unless you know the students GPA, SAT or ACT scores, and whether he/she was accepted or rejected at the particular school. You may be able to make an educated guess, but that is it. Your assumption is that the outlier dot for Stanford must be the kid Larry Lacrosse. Why could it not be someone else who had a major hook, perhaps one you were not aware of. If, as I believe you stated in another post, there are multiple years reported for a class in the hundreds, how can you be sure. BTW, using your outlier analysis to identify the obvious lacrosse player if no different from using the same analysis to identify the obvious URM or legacy acceptance because “they” could not have gotten in on their own merit.</p>
<p>calmom stated:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is what the “withrawn” notation is for on Naviance. To indicate that the application was not pursued. As a practical matter it renders the data point meaningless.</p>
<p>Lastly Bay said:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At least at my son’s HS, I could not disagree more. If you are looking at schools were the schools give a “holistic” review of the application, having some knowledge of how your HS is perceived by these schools can be very valuable. In my son’s school, very few kids are accepted at the Ivys, but a lot are accepted at Stanford. My conclusion – Stanford likes the HS’s products, the Ivys are less sure (but at least consider them). When my son panicked in the early Fall about schools with his interests where he was likely to get in, I consulted Naviance to see how students from his HS had faired with applications to USC and Rice. After looking at the site, and given his GPA, scores on ACT and SATs, and the rigor of his classes, I would have been surprised if he was not accepted at USC and Rice (which were then added to the list). If I hadn’t had Naviance as a guide, I would have probably accepted the conventional wisdom of CC and concluded that both would be “reaches”.</p>
<p>I am the Naviance administrator ai the school where I work and I want to explain a few things. First, Naviance is useful in that a 3.5 gpa at one high school is different from a 3.5 gpa at another school. If you only look at the data released by the college - you really have no idea how you compare in terms of GPA. Some high schools use weighted GPA - some don’t. So, the best way to compare yourself and to see if you are a reasonable candidate for a particular college is to look at the Naviance data for your particular high school. Yes, there will always be outliers - I would ignore them. But the graph for your high school - with your own data superimposed on it - is the best tool available to you - and it is completely dependent on kids reporting their results. When you don’t report your outcomes - you are just hurting future students by depriving them of this data and I really can’t see any good reason to do so.</p>
<p>The high school profile lists student matriculations for the past few years to give colleges an idea of the level of academic achievement at this particular high school. Let’s say you are the first student from your hs to apply to XYZ University and they are not at all familiar with your hs. The matriculation list gives them a context - say you have a 3.5 gpa at a school that routinely sends kids to the Ivy League - not all that impressive. But say you have that same 3.5 gpa at a hs that only sends 45% of their graduates to a 4-year college and most of those stay in-state - now you are looking more impressive. If you have never seen your hs profile - this might be a good opportunity for you to do so. It gives average GPA info, courses available, etc., again with the purpose of putting you the individual student in context with the overall population from your hs. Kids start threads on CC all the time saying things like they are worried because they only have 3 AP courses because that is all their hs offers - well the profile will show this. A student who has taken no APs at a hs that offers 10 might not fare so well. A student who has taken advantage of everything the hs has to offer will be looked upon more favorably.</p>
<p>Hope this info helps. Naviance is working with the common application to help high schools send more documents electronically rather than by mail - so it is becoming an increasingly important part of the college process. Personally, I think it is a great program and I appreciate that my hs uses it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Calmom, exactly! A few days ago on this thread, however, some were debating that you don’t have to let your HS know where you plan to enroll at college. In my opinion, not only should you tell them, but you would need to in order to have your final senior year transcript sent as required! But there were some even debating that! </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think it is very important on the School Profile to provide context for an applicant. Even as a college counselor when I evaluate a student, I examine their transcript ONLY with the accompanying school profile and definitely look at the types colleges that graduates from that school attend in order to put that student in some context. Rockvillemom discusses this effectively in post #184.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t follow this at all. Wouldn’t colleges look at the student’s class rank to determine how impressive they are in the context of their high school?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We didn’t use a college counselor, and our high school is high-performing and well-known to top schools across the country, so this is irrelevant to us. Additionally, the Profile provides plenty of information about the school (GPA/rank equivalents, NMS, average SAT scores, AP courses offered,honors and awards) to put a student’s application in context without a college matriculation list. It is nice to include, as a “brag sheet” for the high school, but I don’t see it as necessary to the point that students must be compelled to divulge private information in order to include it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hat,
Are you saying that your son’s stats fell out of the range of published scores for admitted students to those two schools, and Naviance showed that students from your school who were out of the range were admitted anyway, and that is why he decided to apply? Or would he have applied anyway?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t get that either. It seems to me that if there is no track record of the school sending students to Ivies, it creates an inference that its not a particularly good school. Why would an Ivy accept a middling student (3.5 GPA) from a middling school?</p>
<p>Hat</p>
<p>There are only 14 accepted dots on the graph.</p>
<p>The average acceptance stats are a 95 GPA and a 2100 SAT. Most of the acceptances and all of those wait listed were above these numbers.</p>
<p>The lowest rejected X appears to be about a 92 GPA and an 1850 SAT.</p>
<p>The outlier acceptance is at least 7 GPA points and 400 SAT points below that point
To put it another way - this outlier acceptance was farther away from the next lowest data point (the lowest rejection) than that lowest rejection was from highest acceptance. </p>
<p>This data point had no business even applying to this school absent a major major hook.
There is no bigger hook at this school than to be at the top of the lacrosse coach’s list.</p>
<p>The school is one that expects to win or at least contend for the NCAA D1 championship every year. The player was one of the top handful of recruits in the country. The school made him a public commitment reported in the national press in September of his junior year in high school. Thus he got in to one of the top Universities in the country before he had even taken his PSAT’s. There was a massive amount of local press about this. </p>
<p>There is no other hook that could reasonably explain this acceptance.</p>
<p><<<the matriculation=“” list=“” gives=“” them=“” a=“” context=“” -=“” say=“” you=“” have=“” 3.5=“” gpa=“” at=“” school=“” that=“” routinely=“” sends=“” kids=“” to=“” the=“” ivy=“” league=“” not=“” all=“” impressive.=“” but=“” same=“” hs=“” only=“” 45%=“” of=“” their=“” graduates=“” 4-year=“” college=“” and=“” most=“” those=“” stay=“” in-state=“” now=“” are=“” looking=“” more=“”>>></the></p>
<p>Actually, a 3.5 at a school that sends students to Ivy League is more impressive than a school that send only 45% to state colleges. It suggest that the latter high school is not competitive, is bad, and thus a lot easier to get a higher GPA. At a competitive high school it’s a lot harder to get a 3.5, so the 3.5 at a very competitive HS is more impressive than a 3.5 at a very easy high school. If you know anything about IB you’d know this is how it works — the more the school send students to Ivy League, the harder the school is, and thus the more weight the GPA has.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I thought so but I hadn’t had my coffee yet.</p>
<p>A note of clarification - fewer and fewer high schools are providing class rank - so I was writing my example from the standpoint of a school that does not rank. Going back to my hypothetical example - I was picturing a hs where the average wgpa is close to 4.0 and many students attend Ivy League or other top 30 colleges - in this context - a 3.5 would not be all that impressive. On the other hand, say it is a hs where most students do not go to a 4-year college or stay in-state and the average wgpa is a 3.0 - now the 3.5 shows a highly motivated student.</p>
<p>The confusion over my post really emphasizes my point - a 3.5 can mean so many different things. Is it weighted or unweighted? How does it relate to the average GPA at the school? You can’t look at a gpa in isolation and make any sense of it. You need tools like the high school profile (for colleges) and naviance (for students and parents) to make sense of it.</p>
<p>Wanting to know which colleges students are going to is reasonable. Fines are not.</p>
<p>So…if it really matters to you…just lie, and then forget about it.</p>
<p>Here’s what I find funny about this thread. During the college admissions process, the students and parents are required to divulge lots of personal info to colleges, and if you apply for need-based FA, to FAFSA and CSS Profile - not to mention sending them your tax returns. In the overall scheme of things, I would find telling your HS where you were accepted and where you were declined would be the least invasive request. I don’t agree with fines or other punative actions, but it completely escapes me as to why people are getting so worked up over this.</p>
<p>To the OP
Does the school allow access to Naviance to the families/students?</p>
<p>In our case–the hs will NOT give the families/students passwords to Naviance–claiming that
<p>I will probably require the hs to NOT include our student’s data os any kind in Naviance since they are not allowing us use of the tool–so I see no reason to build their database…
Our school does not rank–but careful inspection of the profile and the passig rate of the AP exams tells the story well.</p>
<p>So since the apps are between the student and the colleges… I believe the student has a right to privacey…and all that is required is the place where the student matriculates and needs a final transcript…especially IF the school is not sharing the data gathered for the benefit of applicants</p>
<p>fogfog - that I find very odd - have never heard of that. Many hs have a “guest entrance” for naviance so that a prospective family or the parents of a 10th grader can enter as aguest and look at the data. Naviance is also called the “Family Connection” - so to not give out passwords and allow families to use it is ridiculous - that kind of defeats the purpose.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your statement is incorrect in fact. FAFSA and any other type of financial aid application require nothing it is totally voluntary on your part. IF you do want to keep your personal finances private do so. You may not like the consequences but all choices have consequences.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Personally, I would find having to prove legal citizenship not invasive at all but as the current news will tell you it is not about what any particular individual finds invasive. It is about civil liberties and big government mandating control of your life.</p>
<p>I said IF you apply for need-based aid - of course it is not mandatory. But IF you apply for need-based aid, you MUST provide all sorts of info. IF you want to be a helpful kind person, you will cooperate with your high school’s request for acceptance info. If not, so be it. Not worth getting so worked up over.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am not worked up in any manner. Without even addressing the absurd notion of fines and not walking in graduation from the OP I simply take offense to the many people here who refuse to acknowledge that it is your right, without explanation and condemnation, to keep your personal information personal if you so choose without being a social outcast.</p>
<p>Just for the record, my D’s GC was one of the most inept,uncaring, unprofessional people I have ever met. She would not last a week in the private sector. Nevertheless, my wife and I encouraged our D to meet with her before graduation and share any information that could be useful for following students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>… :rolleyes:</p>