HS threatens fine, etc if students don't report college app outcomes

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Hey, Hunt. I want to remind you of my D’s special hardship. With the caveat that we did report because the information is used to help the next class, not the same class, and we don’t have Naviance (although I would have still reported.) Some of you may know that my D was (and still is for a few more weeks) the victim of serious, long-term, violent, dangerous, criminal stalking by the parent of a student in her class. I had posted on CC about this many times and had gotten the great advice before my D even applied to enlist the GC’s support. Did that and all was well, the other family never knew where my D applied. Without that support, we probably would not have reported – at least until my D graduated.Sometimes there are special circumstances.</p>

<p>I don’t think you understand how Naviance works. At least at our school this is what would happen in each of these situations.</p>

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Most schools have a minimum threshhold for printing Naviance data. Our school set it at 12. I’m not sure why this is an issue though. With a 3.0 this student wouldn’t have been on our (public) honor roll list anyway.</p>

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There are frequently outliers on the SAT/GPA list. There’s generally no way of knowing if the person got in through sports, URM, legacy, or big bucks. Where students are actually attending is not part of the Naviance scattergrams.</p>

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So what. Where students are attending is not part of the scattergrams. All one will know is someone got into Harvard. Unless you’ve done screenshots of before and after the current year acceptances that Harvard acceptance should be one of many. I can’t believe people actually have these charts memorized.</p>

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I suppose you might be able to figure this out if you can tell who he/she is apart from previous vals. The highest point on our chart is not this year’s val, it’s the one from three years ago.</p>

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The school has the discretion of leaving off someone’s scattergram data if they feel they are misleading. Unless it’s the valedictorian, or you are privy to the entire college list for the student, there’s no way to know which point belongs to which person.</p>

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If there are already multiple points on the scattergram the new point will just be one of many. If there aren’t the graph won’t be published at all.</p>

<p>I just don’t see the fuss. I know my son’s best friend was one of only two kids accepted to Harvard this year, but I have no idea which of the dozens of points on our scattergram belongs to him, but I’m pretty sure it means he’s got a 99+ WGPA, and SATs above 2100 like virtually every other Harvard acceptance at our school. So what? Maybe he’s one of the lower points since he’s also a double legacy.</p>

<p>mathmom…very much agree with your points above. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t understand those who question the point about community. Why should a family benefit from viewing Naviance which relies on others reporting data, if they are not willing to report their data so that families in subsequent years can benefit from viewing such data JUST AS THEY WERE ABLE TO DO WITH THEIR OWN CHILD WHEN APPLYING TO COLLEGE. Whatever happened to “give and ye shall receive”?</p>

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<p>Well, for some reason I must be more attuned to the emotions that some high school students go through in the application process, and the reactions heaped on them by others. I guess I have a weaker constitution or am more sensitive than others about big decisions in my life and would prefer to experience them in the privacy of my own mind.</p>

<p>I think this thread is getting tired and repetitive, but I want to share one more point from the GC perspective. The vast majority of the students I work with can’t wait to tell me their decisions. They literally run into our office. We dispense hugs and tissues as needed. Over winter break and spring break I receive dozens of e-mails from our students and their parents, wanting to share their results. We celebrate their acceptances with them and try to help them deal with rejections. We try to help them see the big picture and manage their stress. Many of them come back to visit us over winter break of their freshman year of college and let us know how it is going. Some decide to transfer and we assist them in that process as well. And yes, there are those few that don’t share their results with us and that is ok. We don’t harass them in any way. I consider it a privilege to help students and their parents navigate such a critical juncture in their lives and it is generally a lot of fun as well.</p>

<p>rockvillemom, while most of my posts on this thread are from the perspective of being a parent, I happen to also be an independent college counselor. I spend a HUGE number of hours helping these kids and their parents and I would be really bothered if they didn’t share their college outcomes with me. I realize that may seem different to some here as I am not a GC in a school setting, but the idea is similar. It would be like going through this whole process and missing sharing the climax. Most students truly do wish to share this with me, but just saying. Back to my parent hat, I just cannot imagine not wishing to share the outcome with our GC.</p>

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<p>So what about a student who doesn’t use Naviance data, whose GC doesn’t know his/her name, and hasn’t used services offered by the school to pick colleges?</p>

<p>Not every student camps out in the GC office. Not every student uses the Naviance data to help select colleges. Not every student applies at safety, match, and reach schools. Some students simply apply at one open enrollment college and go there and have no need for the data.</p>

<p>Do these students still have an obligation to turn in detailed personal information? It’d be helpful, of course, but if they haven’t used resources, do they incur any obligation to improve resources?</p>

<p>My vote is no.</p>

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<p>Maybe if you catch them on a day when they’re feeling uncharacteristically generous.</p>

<p>bigtrees - just to use your example - all the student in that case would need to do is tell the GC where to send a final hs transcript - that’s it. No “detailed personal information” is needed or wanted.</p>

<p>And just for clarity - exactly what “detailed personal information” do you think GC’s want? Let’s say a student applies to College A, College B and University C. All we ask is that they let us know - “I got into all 3 and I’m going to College A” or “I only got into College B and that’s where I am going”. It’s just that simple. In my view, that does not meet the level of “detailed personal information”.</p>

<p>Furthermore, sometimes kids are deferred or waitlisted and they want to tell us because they want our help! The GC is not the enemy.</p>

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<p>In my personal situation, the GC did not even send out transcripts. A form was given to the front office and one of the school office assistants processed the request.</p>

<p>In my high school, the GCs didn’t concern themselves with college. They were too busy dealing with troubled youth to have time for college help. I am pretty sure I never told them when I got accepted. I think I mentioned it to teachers who were interested, but didn’t have a need to tell any of the administrators at the school.</p>

<p>Ok - whether it is the GC, the registrar, the office assistant, whomever - some school employee sent out the final transcript. But again, what “detailed personal information” are you trying to protect?</p>

<p>bigtrees - it is a shame that there are situations in which the GC is more involved in discipline than other types of guidance. My D had a wonderful GC. She didn’t know much of anything about D’s major so was not much help with college choice, but she was a great source of support.</p>

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<p>My high school had about 600 students with a graduating class of about 160 or so. We had two guidance counselers that worked at the school. One was full time discipline, the other was at least part time discipline and not sure what she did the rest of the time, but probably learning disabilities and other behavior issues.</p>

<p>I did just fine without a GC helping with college so I have nothing against them. They were nice people. But I don’t feel that I was supposed to tell them where I applied/accepted/rejected since they weren’t part of my college search and application process. </p>

<p>The school also didn’t keep track of any data as to where we applied and where we were waitlisted, accepted, or not accepted at. It wasn’t information that could have been used by the school or future students.</p>

<p>This was about 10 years ago but likely not much has changed.</p>

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I certainly agree that this is a good reason to not want to report your information. But that doesn’t mean that people should be able to withhold their information for any reason at all, and still expect to use the information that other people have provided. As I said, there are also good reasons why some kids should be allowed to go on the field trip even if they can’t pay the fee–but I think it’s reasonable to ask them to tell the reason to some decision-maker to distinguish them from people who just don’t want to pay.</p>

<p>Kids with perfect scores stand out on Naviance no matter how many dots there are on the scattergram. And not all HSs are airtight with regard to information–sometimes secretaries talk, or teachers are overheard…this was our experience in fact. This is the real, not the ideal world. I am sure the counselors posting here are exemplary (you must be if you pay such attention to CC!) and follow the law and best practices, but believe me, some counselling personnel do not.</p>

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<p>Bigtrees, first, you are a parent, is that right? I’m just checking as you talk about never telling the GC when you got accepted. Are you talking about years ago or in this current generation of students?</p>

<p>In any case, you are bringing up something you talked about earlier in the thread…and as I discussed back then, even if a GC doesn’t advise you about your college selections (and I know some don’t), at a minimum, the GC has sent out your transcripts and typically has written a school report about the applicant. I know you said not all colleges require such a school report, but many many do. Then, at the time, I mentioned to you that at a minimum, the senior would have to inform their GC where they are matriculating in order to have the final year grade transcript sent to their intended college as required. At the time, you argued that not all colleges require a final transcript. Most do, however. I feel that these arguments are weak, because in the majority of cases, the GC has written a report about the student and also must send a final year transcript some place. So, it seems at a min., that a student informs their high school where they will attend college. I don’t see this as personal information. It is part of the mission of the high school to have some clue what graduates do post graduation…at the very least, to compile that data for the School Profile that is sent with the transcripts. It is aggregate information with no names attached. You say the student has not used any resources, but the point is that the School Profile needs to reflect how many students go onto two and four year colleges and usually also lists where graduates have enrolled (some list where they have been admitted). This is not “improving resources” but the School Profile needs to be accurate (your child did benefit from a School Profile as it is sent out with every transcript). </p>

<p>I’m saying this as a parent at a school that does not have Naviance.</p>

<p>EDIT…I cross posted with you, bigtrees, and you now have mentioned that you graduated HS about ten years ago and I was confused as I thought you were a parent of teens or young adults.</p>

<p>MomPhd - I am sure that is true - but in my experience - the kids tell each other a lot more than you might expect anyway - and with FB - news travels fast. Many times other students will come into our office and tell us that someone was accepted to a particular college - and we wil respond that we don’t discuss results with anyone but the student in question and wait for them to come in and tell us themselves.</p>

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My feeling is that if a family is seriously opposed, a personal meeting with the college counselor should be made (by the counselor) to explore the issue. Perhaps good information about safeguards in place in each school would go a long way toward alleviating concern. But I also think the counselor has a responsibility to accept that there are sometimes good reasons. And if an agreement isn’t reached, it’s totally fair to say that students who don’t contribute can’t receive. Like the feast of nations things that my kids’ schools all did. Everyone had to bring a dish or item of food from a particular place and share it. If you didn’t share, you didn’t eat. Unless, of course, you spoke with the school privately beforehand. If rules are set out, then it’s fair.</p>

<p>zm, I agree. The difficulty of this situation is that you might use the Naviance information before you realize you don’t want to share your own. I recognize that this creates problems–but I certainly think that if *on principle *you don’t want to share the information, you shouldn’t partake in others information.</p>

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<p>This may be true at your high school, but wasn’t true at the one I graduated from</p>

<p>1) School Profile reports weren’t generated and sent out with transcripts
2) GC did not send out transcripts
3) No information was kept on where students went to college</p>

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<p>Having a clue with what students did after high school was NOT part of the mission of my high school.</p>

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<p>What happens if the student doesn’t go to college? Probably 1/4 of my graduating class did not attend college.</p>