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I agree completely. Even in my circumstance we were able to find a way because I think it’s important for the next class coming up. We were willing to communicate our problem, the GC was very responsive, and I had great advice from CC!</p>
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<p>But should a student who doesn’t partake in others information should be expected to share his/her own?</p>
<p>Bigtrees, almost every high school today sends out a School Profile with the transcripts. If your school did not, it was the exception. In my line of work, I ask every student for a copy of their transcript along with a school profile. I have worked with students all over the country and every single one has a school profile, albeit some are well written and some are not.</p>
<p>You mention that 1/4 of the students at your high school did not pursue higher education. Well at my kids’ high school, 1/3 did not go onto college. Now, how you do know that “factoid”? I know ours due to the School Profile which gives the percentage of students going onto 2 or 4 year colleges, the percentage going onto the military, and the percentage going onto work or other. That information is on almost all school profiles that accompany transcripts. The school would need such information of students post graduate plans to provide it to colleges with the transcripts they send out routinely. If yours didn’t, it was the exception. Most public schools have this kind of information at a minimum, even if they don’t know WHERE the students went to college. They know what percent actually go to college. I know it for our school due to the School Profile. You seem to be able to state that your school sent only 75% to college and I wonder how you know that. Ours sends even less…66%. But this is information that is known due to students providing their post graduate plans. Further, in college admissions, this piece of information is used by adcoms to assess the student’s transcript in context of his or her high school.</p>
<p>Even if you don’t want to help the guidance office in order to help future students, at the least, future students will have their transcripts sent to colleges with a school profile and that school profile needs to be accurate so that the applicant’s transcript can be interpreted correctly in context.</p>
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<p>That’s nice, but my school didn’t have such a thing and likely doesn’t today. It sound helpful but wasn’t a function of the high school.</p>
<p>bigtrees - it would depend on the situation. You mentioned that about 1/4 of your hs class did not go to college - so then they would not have anything to share pertaining to college admissions outcomes.</p>
<p>A student like yourself who applied to only one open-enrollment college would also have nothing to share - just the final transcript request to the appropriate person.</p>
<p>It is the student who applied to several colleges who is more likely to use naviance and who, therefore, should provide the info on where they were accepted and declined. It is nothing more than that - just telling the GC or other designated person at the hs the final results - admit, waitlist, deny.</p>
<p>Bigtrees, don’t be so sure that your school doesn’t have a school profile today. Almost every school does. For example, it explains what courses the school offers, its grading system, the average SATs, etc. I have not yet run into a kid whose school doesn’t have one. I’ve seen poor ones, but all have something that accompanies the transcript.</p>
<p>IF you are 100% that your old high school doesn’t have a school profile (have you asked?..you may not realize it exists)…it is surely the exception. This discussion on this thread assumes what is the minimal norm at most high schools in the country. Naviance is not the norm. A school profile is, however.</p>
<p>In an old post, you maintained that a final year transcript didn’t need to be sent to the college where a student matriculates and that is also very rare. I think sticking to the general norm is more productive than these very unusual situations you describe.</p>
<p>bigtrees - how do you know whether or not your hs had a Profile? Personally, I had never heard of the document until I started working at a hs a few years ago. I certainly had never heard of it as a hs student. If our students or parents ask to see it, we will show it to them, but I am sure the majority of them have never heard of it.</p>
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<p>Agree! When I ask families who work with me to get me their school profile along with the transcript, many parents have no clue what a school profile is and I have to describe it and assure them that their school truly does have one and sure enough, they procure it. I had one situation where the school profile was so poor as to be almost worthless and I told the parent so, and she asked me what a school profile should have and I described it thoroughly and provided her many samples and she was going to her school to discuss having them improve their profile description. At my girls’ high school, I asked to see the profile, and I am glad I did. Most don’t realize this exists and is sent to their prospective colleges. Our school profile had so many errors, as well as outdated and false information as to be detrimental to applicants from our HS and I pointed out all the mistakes and inaccuracies on the document to the principal and the document was revised to correct these things in fact. So, yes, many do not realize this document exists and gets sent with the transcript to colleges. </p>
<p>I am not convinced that bigtrees knows for a fact that his former high school doesn’t have a profile (many of my families have claimed that only to find out upon asking that their school has one). Also, bigtrees knows which percentage of graduates goes onto college and I wonder how he’d know that if the school did not collect such data!</p>
<p>This thread shouldn’t turn into personal attacks on me. I didn’t start it and have posted a few things that are helpful in my opinion.</p>
<p>I’ll rest by saying that students who benefit from guidance counseler’s advice and input should help strengthen the guidence counsel program for future students. Providing personal information is one way they can help, but they can help in other ways as well. For example, they could spend some time putting together a binder of information about a university and give it to the GC for future students. </p>
<p>However, a student that doesn’t use the GC office doesn’t have any obligation to provide personal data for their safekeeping. A high school student has the same right to keep that information private as an adult has to keeping their salary private. I don’t think Soozivet would be fond of telling us how much she charges for her services even though that would be helpful information for all of us.</p>
<p>I’m done posting with this thread as it is turning into personal attacks on me and my input. Have fun with the conversation.</p>
<p>You have given helpful info, Bigtree, as have the other posters including Soozievt who is giving her PROFESSIONAL knowledge at no charge as a parent on this thread and others on CC. What she does and makes for a living is no more anyone’s business than any other posters.</p>
<p>I think most, if not all of us agree that it should not be a mandatory reporting of information on Naviance or other data base, though be aware that just taking the standardized tests like the SATs and applying to a college makes part of a data base with the information compiled and reported as a group. But anyone who wants to keep as much of the info private as he can, has some things he can do. </p>
<p>Most colleges need an official transcript from a college at minimum, and you do have to request it from your high school. And it generally has to be sent directly to the college from the school with some sort of stamp on it. Too much fraud in this area. But there are open door colleges and programs that do not care if you have any high school. If those are the schools you like, than you do not have to involve your high school or anyone.</p>
<p>But for most who are on CC, the questions involve those colleges that do require involvement of the high school and the GCs there. </p>
<p>Even at my son’s small prep school where the vast majority of kids provided their info, there were outliers that did not. No one went after them and there were no penalties. So is the case with most of the schools that subscribe to Naviance. Most of the data is not even confirmed or verified with original letters as my son’s high school did. But it is a good tool to have available. My older son did not have such a thing 8 years ago when he was applying to college. Now his high school participates. </p>
<p>i don’t agree with the high school that is threatening to fine students for not giving info and I think they are setting themselves up for a law suit, a mess in enforcing the mandate and getting accurate information when they are being so nasty about the matter. </p>
<p>But I also feel that this is the sort of information sharing that is nice for all to participate.</p>
<p>soozievt, I love your story about the parent who was improving the school profile based on your advice.
What, in your opinion, constitutes a good school profile?</p>
<p>Also, I think that the people who have things like Naviance, or other knowledge of where students were accepted/declined admission with what scores, and individual attention from GCs should be very grateful and realize that not all of us are fortunate to have those advantages. People should be willing to help the community without having to be forced to do so, though.</p>
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<p>Show of hands: How many believe that this is the way it should be?</p>
<p>Now, how many believe that this is the way it should be if we are talking about most schools mandatory community service. Right of privacy vs. Freedom from slavery?</p>
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Well, of course it’s the way it should be.</p>
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<p>A school profile may not be immediately available to students or parents, but I would echo what Soozie says. The profile is generally sent to the colleges with each student’s transcripts or counselor recommendations. </p>
<p>A school that doesn’t have one would be doing a disservice to it’s students, because it is hard for a college to assess an applicant without having some basic information about the school - size, what types of APs or Honors classes, SAT/ACT testing averages, etc.</p>
<p>While the school should have the right to request individual information from its students, it also has the obligation to disclose the purpose of collecting this information. After that, as a public organization the school has the obligation to disclose the information to whomever requires it. In other words, all the information collected becomes publicly accessible. </p>
<p>In this thread, some have made the point that parents should be supporting the GC’s office. It should be the other way around … the only purpose of the GC’s office is to provide assistance to the students, and by extension to their parents. If collecting information on college matriculation happens to represent data that are valuable to the community, the school should make that point very clear. </p>
<p>As far as valuable information, it is highly doubtful that information beyond the MATRICULATION of students should be gathered. Individual students should have the right to withhold disclosing schools that accepted, rejected or waitlisted them. In addition, were they volunteer the information to the school, they should also DEMAND restrictions to be placed on public disclosure of such information. </p>
<p>All in all, this simply yet another chapter written about the overreaching tendencies of officials at high schools. Families should firmly refuse to share anything but the most basic information. Test scores obtained outside the four walls of a school should NEVER be shared with the GC office, and parents should instruct the schools that happen to receive PSAT or AP scores to remove them from their registers. </p>
<p>The only information that a high school should possess and ALLOWED to disclose is the information that was developed IN the school, or was released VOLUNTARILY by the students. </p>
<p>All the rest is hogwash!</p>
<p>Xiggi, there would be no data for Naviance and other such aids for individual schools without that data. </p>
<p>By taking the SATs and applying to schools, your data is automatically being used on a national basis. College boards, the colleges where you apply, your high school (most of the time) all get that information and they compile it. How do you think colleges can give average test score ranges? No permission asked to use your info in that average. School districts and individual school always can give out class average SAT scores and ranges. And those students at the tail ends of those scales can certainly identify themselves and others possibly can. YOu are not asked if you want this information released and used.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone should have to release the info to their high school, though certain information has to be given since the GCs need to send recs and final transcripts to the colleges. So an office that compiles that dats certainly can match up a student’s stats with the information of college apps that student chose. </p>
<p>The tricky part comes with the information of acceptance, waitlist and rejection since only the one school is information that pretty much has to be shared by the student with the school. And many high schools will use that data and even put it in the newspaper without permission. Yes, I’ve seen lists of who is going where in the local newspapers, and certainly in lists of the high school newsletters. Those who don’t want that info released and are in a school that automatically uses that information, had better go and specifically tell their GC that they want that info blocked. I agree that it is the right of any student to do this.</p>
<p>If you don’t want to share test score info with your high school, you don’t put your high school info on the test, and they won’t get that info. Otherwise they do. Most kids do put down their high school and that info does get transmitted.</p>
<p>As for all of the “shoulds”, I disagree with you, Xiggi as to whether a student should share this info. I believe they should unless they do not want to do so. It is their right NOT to share the info, this thread about a high requiring the info, not withstanding. But I think they should. Thank goodness enough kids did in my kids’ schools so that we now have information that can help us in determining chances at certain colleges. I am grateful. So is my son.</p>
<p>Just to remind recent posters, the HS did not uphold the fines etc when challenged…</p>
<p>Okay–off-topic now–xiggi, the College Board ONLY reports PSATs to high schools as far as I know, unless maybe homeschoolers get their scores directly somehow. Students can’t withhold these. NMSF need their HS to fill out applications and recommendations, and scores do help strengthen those. </p>
<p>You have a view I have not heard before, that all external scores should be removed from students’ HS files. Why do you think so? What if they are high scores? It seems that if CB sends one score to the HS, they send all of them–no score choice for HSs. They notify HSs of their students who have earned AP awards each year, and I think they also send AP exam scores to the HS. Our HS reports on AP score data publicly without student names, and uses these in their Profile, as do most academic HSs. They also may use AP scores to judge AP teachers’ performances (as do students and parents when selecting courses). If students withhold scores they may lose out on some academic programs and scholarships that they need the school’s recommendation for.</p>
<p>I agree with you Proxy. For students to go the way Xiggi says should be done would involve making major changes to the status quo. The movement is for more sharing not less with naviance and other info sharing that can give students more tools in deciding where they likely stand with certain colleges. Many highly selective prep schools have been compiling this info for a while now. It’ s only recently that the public schools are joining theserprivates.</p>
<p>I figured that HS would not be able to uphold the threat, Proxy.</p>
<p>Cpt and Proxy, I have a hard time lining up where we might agree or disagree, especially on the “should” and “should not.” I am not certain if you endorse the forced sharing of information or not! </p>
<p>If I was unclear, allow me to repeat that I think that the ONLY college information students should be asked to provide their school is their INTENDED matriculation. Fwiw, I find it humorous that a school is threatening high schoolers for not realeasing information they might not have yet --but that must be another story. Anyhow, naviance or nor, I do not think that a student should EVER have to disclose his or her acceptances, rejections, or waitlists, unless he or she … wants to. I do make a SOLE exception for the matriculation as this information is usually included in the school profile. And as members of CC know, I consider the profile a useful document that EVERY eight grader’s family should obtain before starting high school. But again the only information is … the matriculation. </p>
<p>As far as the test score, the reason why I have been advocating seeking the REMOVAL of PSAT and ALL SAT scores from the school registers, is simple. This information does NOT belong to the high school. The fact they receive it through the TCB distribution system does not make them the custodian of said information. Since the school SHOULD NEVER be asked to share that information and will NEVER assume the responsibility of transmitting data in error, parents should pursue the elimination of ALL outside test scores as a matter of routine. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, parents should remember that it is the STUDENT who requests the school to send a transcript and that it also means that the school is AUTHORIZED by the STUDENT to transmit PRIVATE date to the colleges. A student not only has the right to inspect the document but SHOULD make sure the document is free of mistakes. If the GC refuses to remove the scores (or those silly stickers) take it to the principal, or higher. A good start is to send a letter to The College Board asking them to notify the high school that sharing the PSAT scores IS a violation of the rights of the students. </p>
<p>There are NO reason ever for a student to accept the EXCUSES by HS to include the information. Students HAVE the right to choose the test scores that are submitted and the only submission that IS accepted comes straight from The College Board. That is why YOU are paying those fees to TCB, and not to some obscure GC. </p>
<p>As far as making changes to the status quo, is it bad to challenge moronic rules that violate privacy rights. Should we not all ask why such incoherent and unacceptable practices appeared in the fuist place in our high schools? because an overzealous GC thought it would look cute on the transcript to add TCB test scores?</p>
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<p>That is entirely incorrect. Not only can they withhold the scores from further distribution, but they should. Those scores never belonged to the high school staff. By the way, regarding the SAT, no student should EVER write down his or her HS on the TCB registrations.</p>