<p>It's not stupid to bypass Princeton or MIT. In fact, I would say that it's stupid to attend if you are interested in grad school. You will have many prestigious institutions to choose from should you do well at any decent university. And you will be able to afford more of your options, as well.</p>
<p>Be careful with your "safeties." Lafayette, Lehigh et al may be sensitive to being "used as a safety." You don't want to get a reject letter because a school thought you were not seriously interested. Make sure that your essays show solid knowledge of each school and why it is a fit for you (and you for it). Visit or have other forms of contact, which some of these schools track, again to ensure that you have demonstrated interest in the ways Admissions is watching for.</p>
<p>Keep Rice on your list, for sure.</p>
<p>You mentioned Vanderbilt originally, and I would encourage you to keep it in mind, for several reasons. It is the right size, all students will be living on campus beginning this year, they seem interested in attracting a diverse student body (at Vanderbilt that means they would like more Asian students), and the engineering school has merit scholarships. I don't know much about chemical engineering there, but they have a fair number of biomedical engineering students who plan to go on to medical school.</p>
<p>Based on just a bit of personal experience with merit scholarship winners at Rice, Vanderbilt and Washington Univ., I think it is safe to say that all want to see very high test scores and extremely challenging course loads with good grades, but they also want to see a good extracurricular record, featuring a lot of real leadership and initiative. The conventional wisdom is that Wash U wants more evidence than most schools that you are serious about them, and I think that is true based on what I have seen. </p>
<p>I'm no expert on financial aid, so I won't comment on your EFC. However, if you end your undergraduate years with 50K of debt, going directly to medical school will leave you paying off loans for a very long time. If you wanted to take your chemE degree and go straight to work, then 40-50K of debt might be manageable, since that is a field that pays well initially.</p>
<p>University of Tulsa has tons of merit aid available, and a great tennis team (if you are that good). They are small, private, nationally ranked, have a nice campus feel, and have a wide variety of majors including engineering. My son's EC's look a lot like yours, though his test scores are lower and he got a nice merit offer there. They give full rides to National Merit Scholars, so if you fall into that group you might consider it.</p>
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It's not stupid to bypass Princeton or MIT. In fact, I would say that it's stupid to attend if you are interested in grad school.
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<p>I disagree. If you can to be admitted to Princeton or MIT you need some pretty good reason to turn either down. I can't see that your financial situation as being one of these reasons. </p>
<p>MIT has the top chemical engineering program in the country and preferentially admits its own undergrads into its graduate programs. It also has lots of premeds that place very well at top medical schools. Both schools place a disproportionate number of their students into top graduate and professional programs. It is simply not true that your chances would the same if you enrolled at any other college. </p>
<p>Both MIT and Princeton have excellent need-based finaid programs that are essentially all grant based. At MIT over 65% of students are on financial aid. In your situation, you would probably find the net cost to be lower than that of an in-state student at a major public university. Both schools also have lots of on-campus jobs and well paying research jobs that would further reduce your net contribution. Finally, nearly all students at MIT and Princeton graduate in 4 years and enter med school upon graduation, which is definitely not typical of most institutions. </p>
<p>Finally, if you are of the caliber to be admitted to either school, there is a lot to be said about being surrounded by some of the brightest kids of your generation and having access to world class faculty. You can get a great education at many fine colleges, but the experience will be dramatically different.</p>
<p>I don't know if salaries from other schools are similar in ChemE, but I have been stunned at the offers my son and his friends (EE and other engineering disciplines) got on graduating from MIT--some as high as $150K/year. That would pay off loans really fast.</p>
<p>cellardweller, you assume OP would even recieve significant financial aid. Many people attend Ivies taking out ~100K in debt. With 100K in debt you would not be able to afford MIT grad whether you were admitted or not. I would say this is true even for lower debt numbers, because you will have to take out even more loans for graduate school. The "experience" is not worth possible financial ruin. In addition, I would not bank on getting a 150K salary straight out of undergrad, whether it has anectodotally been the position of some people or not. Although my father did recieve such an offer as an aerospace engineer commuter graduate from UMCP, so that number has some merit. If you want to take that chance for almost purely the "experience" (since students bright enough to be admitted to such schools have virtually an equally good chance of getting into a prestigious grad school and recieving high paying job offers from any decent university), I suppose that is a personal - albeit risky, and imho unwise - decision.</p>
<p>And of course, if you are rich enough or recieve enough financial aid for it to be affordable, then it is worth it. But a lot of parents' versions of "affordable" on CC sometimes disturbs me.</p>
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because you will have to take out even more loans for graduate school.
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That really depends on what you go to grad school in. In the sciences you generally get a pretty reasonable stipend. Med school of course is a different story.</p>
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because you will have to take out even more loans for graduate school.</p>
<p>That really depends on what you go to grad school in. In the sciences you generally get a pretty reasonable stipend. Med school of course is a different story.
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<p>mathmom beat me to it. Many engineering departments, natural science departments and social science departments (such as economics) bring in a lot of external research funds which include support for graduate students. Neither my husband nor I paid any tuition or fees for our doctoral programs, and were paid stipends for our research (albeit not lucrative). </p>
<p>Medical, veterinary, law schools, etc. are completely different.</p>
<p>Hm. So somebody graduating from MIT and planning to go on to a prestigious grad school for engineering isn't going to pay tuition?</p>
<p>It still stands that I think 80K+ debt from undergrad is too much. People do it, but...it's not really a smart decision. And again I say especially if you are going to grad school, 1 because it can increase your debt and 2 I firmly believe that if you are admitted to MIT as an undergrad you can gain admission to its grad school if you continue working hard. So why waste the money? For the "experience"? 150K for that is just sad.</p>
<p>"So somebody graduating from MIT and planning to go on to a prestigious grad school for engineering isn't going to pay tuition?"</p>
<p>Nope.</p>
<p>Seconding the recommendations for RPI--they are very generous with aid and the right size, and their engineering programs are excellent. </p>
<p>You might also look at Notre Dame--lots of programs for first-generation college, good engineering, great campus life, not too big, generous with need based aid.</p>
<p>Hey, it's the OP again.</p>
<p>Well, the first thing I should say is that I don't plan out taking out over 100K in loans. According to the calculator on FinAid.org, my EFC w/ my mother included as a family member would be around $2,000. From what I understand, the top schools will cover the rest of tuition, room, and board, and some schools (like Princeton) have loan-free financial aid packages. And if my dad does end up moving and getting a job where he makes $50,000-60,000, then the calculated EFC is supposed to be around $14,000.</p>
<p>How accurate is that FinAid.org calculator anyway? I know colleges obviously factor in a lot more info, but is it a good ballpark estimate?</p>
<p>And also, from what I understand according to [url=<a href="http://www.finaid.org/calculators/dependency.phtml%5Dthis%5B/url">http://www.finaid.org/calculators/dependency.phtml]this[/url</a>], if you're attending graduate school then you're automatically an independent student? Will I get the same deal where I get 100% of need when applying to graduate school?</p>
<p>Also, some people said that med school works differently, and from what I infer, I would have a much tougher time paying for it. Can somebody please elaborate?</p>
<p>Thanks,
Ray</p>
<p>I second the motion for Lehigh.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Will I get the same deal where I get 100% of need when applying to graduate school?>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>No. Graduate school finaid is very different than undergraduate finaid.</p>
<p>Ray,</p>
<p>I do not believe that finaid offices would simply add the income of your mother and father together and assume you have $100,000 of income available in the same way two married people have $100,000. They would know that two separate households would have to be supported with this money. I would suggest that you contact some of the financial aid folks at these schools to see how they determine your EFC.</p>
<p>Ray, not to be insulting, but let's get you through college first!
Actually, DD is a sophomore in college and she is starting to think about grad school and has some good mentoring where she is. If you really are looking for grad school then I think you are right on the money looking at a smaller school. </p>
<p>If you want to go to law or business school you are generally expected to pay your own way--medical school has some assistance for those who are willing to work in certain programs once graduated--a friend of mine joined the army and did several years as an Army doctor to pay back her med school education. Academia is quite different--if they DON'T offer you some kind of teaching assistanceship or research stipend and tuition help then that is a big fat hint that you don't belong in grad school. </p>
<p>Now, about financial aid strategies for kids with divorced parents: state schools use the FAFSA method, which takes into account the income and assets of your custodial parent. Private schools generally look at the income/assets of both, so if your parents are divorced you'll generally although not always get a better deal from a public school. There may be a few private schools who only take FAFSA; perhaps some parents can weigh in. </p>
<p>Here are some smaller state schools that specialize in engineering and technology:</p>
<p>Colorado School of Mines: <a href="http://www.mines.edu/academic/chemeng/ugrad/index.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.mines.edu/academic/chemeng/ugrad/index.shtml</a></p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO:
<a href="http://www.calpoly.edu/aboutcp.html#_glance%5B/url%5D">http://www.calpoly.edu/aboutcp.html#_glance</a></p>
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I tried that one on my parents and it didn't fly. Lol.
It especially wouldn't fly if I got a 17K/yr scholarship and the other school in question was UDel! I now see the reason in that. But hey, to each his own. If it works out, it works out.
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<p>Just interested where else did you get in?</p>
<p>Reed and UChicago are two very good options.</p>