Humanities Programs, and Overshadowing

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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What is it like to be a humanities major at UPenn?

Some of my friends have speculated that the pre-professional feel of UPenn might overshadow humanities programs at the school, but I’d like to hear some outside opinions from current students or alumni. Any information would help.

I also have a very specific question that might be harder to answer — how is the history department? Do they suffer from a lack of funding? I’ve been looking over their website and I can’t really find any stand-out programs or defining factors.

Thank you in advance.

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Being a Humanities major at Penn is an INCREDIBLE experience. I majored in both History and English and absolutely loved both. Each was incredibly well funded, had outstanding faculty defining their fields, had small classes/intensive seminars/exciting lectures/incredible guest speakers/etc. etc. etc. It is a common misconception that the humanities are in some way overshadowed at Penn by the pre-professional schools. Instead, because students who legitimately want to study business or engineering have schools to which they can matriculate at Penn, you probably won’t find a wannabe finance major in your Economic History concentration. At the same time, you might find an actual finance concentrator in your Economic History class because they are genuinely passionate about the perspective a humanities course like this offers-- but nobody is forced forced to take that class for lack of offerings in their legitimate fields of interest as you will find at other top schools that lack Penn’s breadth and depth of course offerings among its undergrad/graduate/professional schools.

Furthermore, Penn’s history programs are among the absolute best, and in some cases, second to none. Penn’s overall history department at the graduate level is consistently ranked among the top 10 programs in the country which means that the best scholars and grad students are coming to Penn to teach AND do research (95% of classes in Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences are taught by full time faculty members who also do research. They value both equally and know that both teaching and research informs the other in mutually beneficial ways). Because of Penn’s One University Policy, you have access to both undergrad classes (already taught by these fantastic scholars), and Penn’s graduate history resources/courses as well as research opportunities galore that allow you to make substantive contributions to the field. Two of my friends who majored in history are now pursuing PhDs in their respective historical disciplines-- both at the top programs for their fields of study. With regard to strong areas, USNews consistently ranks Penn either 1st or 2nd in US Colonial History and Penn’s resources combined with the research facilities throughout Philadelphia will give you access to one of the richest sets of archives on American Colonial history in the world. Penn is also ranked in the top 10 for Women’s History, Modern US History, and is ranked #12 for European History at the graduate level. Again, graduate rankings at most universities wouldn’t matter to an undergrad but at Penn, you will easily be able to enjoy the benefits that these outstanding grad programs bring to Penn. I can say from experience that the resources poured into the history department are superb and undergrads are encouraged at every level to take full advantage of them. Advising is pretty outstanding and unlike at some other top universities, you will have both a major advisor within the history department, an academic advisor from the College, and a pre-major advisor who might be in the history department if you list that as your intended major before you matriculate. You get to keep all three as you move through your program of study and at any turn you can look to each of them for advice and guidance. The grad students at Penn are also amazing resources for budding PhD students because they’ve been through it all before. They can provide invaluable advice if you are interested in following in their footsteps.

(And as a side note-- the history department isn’t the only traditional strength at Penn- outstanding programs in the humanities can be found across the board and they all serve to reinforce the others. From Sociology, to English to Economics, Penn’s Arts & Sciences program is truly exemplary.)

The history department is also housed in Penn’s most beautiful, historic building, College Hall. It is literally at the heart of the University both physically and intellectually. From the outside, Penn can seem like a very pre-professional place-- and that is definitely a big element of campus life. But that pre-professionalism does not exist at the exclusion of the intellectual life of the university. Mainstream culture at any Ivy is going to be heavily focused on Wall Street and that’s especially true at Penn. But your experience does not have to be defined by pre-professionalism unless you want it to be your focus. I loved being a humanities student at Penn because I knew that even though i was studying History and English, I was still going to be able to get a job in a highly coveted field afterwards that would position me well for the rest of my career and graduate school pursuits with the help of Penn’s outstanding career services that help all undergraduate students equally. Speaking from experience, the choice to come to Penn and study history and english has DEFINITELY paid off. And most of my friends would agree. No experience is perfect, but a Penn education will truly be what you make of it!

Feel from to send me a message with any specific questions you might have-- i’m happy to answer them! Good luck with the college process :slight_smile:

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What a lovely answer, @PennCAS2014! I received my PhD in history at Penn two decades ago and am pleased that the department is still as wonderful a place now as it was then. I’d love to hear about your experience in the English department, too, if you have time to write it up. Like the OP, my son is considering Penn for humanities. The Kelly Writers House is a huge draw.

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@HodgesSchool The history department is still going strong! And as for English, I genuinely think the Penn experience is second to none!

At the graduate level Penn has been ranked #4 behind only Berkeley, Harvard and Stanford for a while now and as usual, Penn undergrads are given full access to the amazing resources that those strong grad programs bring to the University. While larger classes (about 50-60 students) are possible to find in the department, they are comparatively few and far between. If you are interested in a small, close-knit community of dedicated scholars and students then the English department is perfect for you. I took English classes exclusively taught by full professors with only 12-25 students my entire time at Penn. There were always significantly more courses that interested me than I could take, each engaging with any number of genres, temporal foci, critical disciplines, etc. etc. The department is overflowing with faculty talent and scholarly output and yet the professors adore teaching undergrads across the board. Undergrads often act as research assistants to professors alongside grad students and they can easily gain experience editing and even writing sections of articles and books. The building in which the English department is housed is also absolutely gorgeous and was renovated since you’ve last seen it! (https://vimeo.com/166260945 check out this video to see it). I cannot speak highly enough about the English department at Penn (and if I were FORCED to choose, I would say my favorite classes at Penn were English courses, though I came into Penn assuming I’d only study history). The English major at Penn gave me the skills I needed to think critically and carefully about language, both my own and that of others. While my posts here may not reflect that because i often write them in great haste, I know that the way in which Penn’s professors held me accountable for my use of language made me a significantly more discerning writer. While professors in subjects like political science were often (though certainly not always) focused more exclusively on the content of my ideas, English professors always demanded that the ideas be well presented in addition to being well reasoned, deeply thought out, rigorously researched, and well supported.

In terms of the classroom/homework experience, it was challenging but manageable (much like most classes at Penn). It was always funny to me when students from other departments and schools would remark on how much reading they had because there were many courses in the English department that would require you to read an entire book per week (about 400 pages in addition to all of your other classes) and write a 3 page essay about each book. It is always possible to shy away from the most rigorous courses but most students at Penn thrive on the challenge and many courses offer it. Of course the way in which one reads as an undergrad reading is a lot less challenging and time consuming, but the workload is certainly not light when coupled with your other classes and extracurriculars. Classes are collaborative and students are all encouraged to participate. Classroom participation can often count for about 5% of your overall grade. There are rarely exams in class. Usually, students are required to write papers for their midterms and finals which makes it a good major to pair with more exam-intensive majors like history or economics. The papers are fun to write, however, and the intellectual exercise is outstanding for students who love reading and writing. For a time I considered getting an English PhD and was surprisingly close to matriculating at a program when I ultimately decided to forgo the opportunity for a job I had lined up from earlier in my senior year. Every professor I asked about pursuing a PhD, however, offered great advice and shared their very honest perspective on the state of academia and the utility of the English PhD. Professors were excited to write recommendations and the small classroom setting in which we engaged made building faculty relationships and demonstrating my promise as a potential PhD student very easy.

It also feels like one of the majors least aware of the pre-professional vibe at Penn. The classes and faculty definitely have an outward facing, worldly orientation and their scholarship reflects their engagement with the real world, but not in the same way as econ or sociology, if that makes sense.

Finally, the Kelly Writers House is such a wonderful asset to the university. It is this amazing hub for all things literature and writing. There are poetry readings by the most famous poets and students alike. They host visiting journalists and best selling authors. And if you aren’t aware, you MUST check out the Fellows program (http://www.writing.upenn.edu/wh/people/fellows/). To be able to engage so closely with the literary powerhouses of our lifetime is an opportunity that is truly not available in such an intimate and meaningful way anywhere else in higher education.

Penn english majors go on to do all sorts of incredible things as well. Some become doctors, others become lawyers. Some become writers (Buzz Bissinger of Friday Night Lights fame, for example), singer/song writers (John Legend, for example), business leaders (Rich Ross of Disney and Discovery Channel, for example) and more. The sky is the limit with a Penn english degree in hand.

Please let me know if i can elaborate in any way. I love the English department at Penn and I so truly hope your daughter considers it carefully. It is a very special place in and of itself and especially within the context of a world class research university in the heart of one of America’s most beautiful and historic cities.

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How wonderful! I will pass this info along to my son, @PennCAS2014!

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@HodgesSchool Son* sorry! That’s what i mean about not judging these posts to harshly haha :slight_smile:

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@collegeisalright “I can’t really find any stand-out programs or defining factors.”

It can be difficult for programs to stand out at Penn, because programs that would stand out at most colleges have to stand out compared to other Penn programs. All Penn colleges have this challenge.

You also have to remember that while Penn may be more pre-professional compared to many elite schools, there are still more students in CAS than in the other three schools combined.

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@PennCAS2014. I am a Penn alum from several decades ago, I was a Psych major. I think Penn was and is a fantastic school. But I currently have a kid applying to colleges who is very different than I am. I kind of liked being “anonymous” in a big school like Penn. My kid likes to be part of a closeknit community (something that was not important for me when I attended). My kid is very interested in history, poli sci, philosophy, social activism/human rights – likely to end up going to law school in the future. But this kid of mine really does best in very small classes only (like 20 students or preferably smaller), classes that are entirely or at least heavily class-discussion-based (like sitting around a round table with the prof and other students)(as opposed to lectures), and when close relationships develop with the professor and close relationships with advisors. For that reason, we have only been seriously considering small LAC’s. But everything else about Penn would be a great fit, except for the feeling that at least some classes that would need to be taken would be too big, and that there may not be many close relationships with professors and advisors likely to be formed – this kid is NOT the type to initiate and pursue the relationship, but is more reserved, although is someone who responds and bonds closely with professors and advisors if the professors and advisors tend to initiate and at least mildly pursue it. In my attendance at Penn back in the stone ages, I don’t recall ever getting a close relationship with any professor ever (nor do I recall any of them seeming to be interested in getting to know me - although I was fine with that and did fine at Penn) and I guess I had an advisor but have no memory of the advisor because similarly I surely didn’t develop any real relationship with any advisor either. But reading some of your posts, I wonder if it might be different now, or if it might be different in the history, philosophy, and poly sci departments than it was for me as a psych major (where, as a psych major, I had a few really big classes, although I also did have some very small classes too). I hate giving up the “legacy” admissions advantage (which I know is mostly only effective for ED apps, though) – if our assumption that Penn would be too big, too impersonal for this kid’s needs is wrong? Again, Penn would be perfect for this kid in all of the other respects – it is just the class size and chances (or lack thereof) of easily forming close relationships with professors and advisors (without needing to initiate and pursue the relationships aggressively to form them) that is the knock-out concern. What do you think?

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@splokey there are a couple of things I would consider.

First, I would say that Penn has definitely changed quite a bit since the pre-1990 era- especially in the College. I don’t know when you attended Penn but after Judith Rodin’s presidency in the 90s, the College dramatically reduced the average class size, increased faculty, and made the student to faculty ratio more favorable than even Dartmouth’s (6:1 compared to Dartmouth’s 7:1). She invested a ton in research opportunities specifically for undergraduate students in the humanities and really encouraged professors to include students in their research (by bribing them with lots of money) in a way that really opened the faculty up to the undergraduate population. She and the Deans of the College transformed student advising to the current system in which students are given a peer advisor, a pre major advisor and a College Office advisor before they even set foot on campus. And the Deans of the College have made it a requirement that students in each department are given a specifically designated major advisor from the faculty within the major discipline they declare. You keep all of those advisors throughout your time at Penn and you can turn to any of them at any juncture if you need help making a decision. That may sound pretty standard for liberal arts colleges but students at Columbia don’t get a major advisor at all- they’re forced to make appointments with a rotating advisory pool. At Penn, you can’t even register for classes your first semester (and maybe second semester as well? But I forget) without discussing the classes you chose with your pre-major advisor. Rodin also brought the College House system to Penn which, among other improvements to undergraduate life, ensured that a member of the faculty served as “House Dean” for each of Penn’s College Houses. Consequently there are often several faculty members living in the College Houses with their families and with all of the undergraduate students. For example, Dean of the College, Dennis DeTurck lives in Riepe and hosts Calculus extra help on Wednesdays in his home within the college house at which he serves cookies to the students who come for his advice. Rodin did many (many many many) other things for the university and the College specifically that I could gush about but these are the major changes she brought that I think have contributed most to making the student experience in the College very different from what pre 1990 alums experienced. The quality of the research and faculties has always been outstanding but Rodin’s improvements made those exceptional opportunities more available to undergrads than ever before while fostering a greater sense of community than had been possible at Penn. (Though a Penn grad, Rodin returned to be Penn’s president after a career at Yale where should learned a LOT about making undergrad life exceptional. Penn ended up as a hybrid of its former self (urban, high research activity, highly practical and pragmatic, bigger than the average ivy) and the best parts of Yale (residential colleges, strong school identity, an unparalleled emphasis on the liberal arts as a gateway to the other disciplines of academia, full of smaller communities within the context of a larger research university). It often makes me wonder what would have happened if Rodin had come from Harvard, heaven forbid :wink: )

All that being said, it’s true that Penn will never be as small as Amherst. But I can’t think of a single class she would have to take that would be too large if she chooses a major like history or philosophy. Maybe one of the intro classes in Political Science? But I bet there are alternatives. For majors with notoriously large courses, Penn often offers several sections of their most popular classes to ensure that a smaller section is available for students who do best in more intimate classroom environments. The only way to get lost in the crowd at Penn is if you truly want that to be your experience- and make no mistake, it’s possible and there are students who seek to be hidden! I bet, however, that’s true at Amherst and the LACs too. But if you are open to faculty interaction, it will find you even if you don’t seek it. If your daughter is the kind of student who raises her hand to participate in a class of 12-19 students, then she’ll have no problems building relationships with faculty members. At Penn you will not be forced to interact with faculty if you would prefer to exist in the background. But if you show an interest in your classwork, you can be sure faculty will reach out to you. Two quick anecdotal examples: I once made a comment in a literature class about the political implications of the novel we were reading. When I got home after class I was greeted with an email from my professor who had sent me two articles they felt I should consider reading relating to what we discussed in class. He even invited me to his office to discuss writing a publishable article about the idea and using the historical archives at Penn and in the Library Company of Philadelphia (also founded by Franklin) to access primary sources for the work. He even came with me to the Library Company to check out the documents himself and to ensure I was settled there. All of that just from a comment in class! I had never had the professor before and I hadn’t shown any particular interest in the course beyond my peers. I just answered a question in class and he took it from there. And that experience was not unique to me or to that class. Story #2: A comment in another professor’s class led her to invite me to office hours to discuss criminal justice reform where she shared information about her own work and an opportunity to become involved in her research. That relationship led to her writing me recommendations for graduate/professional school and we still communicate quite often despite my having graduated a few years back. Penn is not small by any means and it is possible to fade into the crowd if that’s what you want. But being shy or introverted or quite is not a recipe for isolation.

Finally, as someone who was also interested in history/poli sci/human rights/activism and was probably going to end up at law school, I can tell you that Penn was a great fit. The administration goes through a lot of effort to create smaller communities within the class of 2400 (the College only has 1500 per class) that can make Penn feel very close-knit. She won’t know everyone in her graduating class, but I was talking to a friend who went to Bowdoin the other day who had no idea he went to college with a friend of mine from high school-- and they have an entering class of about 500! Penn really is what you make of it-- it’s worth considering if you think she might like it. Especially given the legacy bump which, you are right, is pretty much exclusively helpful during ED.

Happy to answer any questions you might have about Penn :slight_smile: