hypocrisy

Applying to College
1

<p>MIT adcom says this:</p>

<p>So when a parent says to me, "Why does HYPSM (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, etc.) put so much emphasis on AP's?" I reply "Why do you put so much emphasis on HYPSM?" When a parent says "My kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by how many AP's he/she has taken" I say "...and your kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by whether or not he/she goes to HYPSM." I could go on and on.</p>

<p>The colleges are trying to convince kids that their worth should be measured by whether or not they get into HYPSM because those noobs support the us news rankings.</p>

<p>They are trying to scare kids into thinking that if they don't go somewhere prestigious, they're losers without prestige or connections.</p>

<p>They want more people to apply so they can boost their ranking and selectivity.</p>

<p>It's depresssing.</p>

2

<p>Who is they?</p>

<p>You keep making new threads with this same theme. Then you make threads asking if anyone ranks the schools on their network value.</p>

<p>If you don't want to play the game, don't. It doesn't mean that others don't want to.</p>

<p>It's hard to dismiss the value of a top school on your resume.</p>

3

<p>newyorka: this poster started on this site slagging Harvard and some other top schools. Really he appears to just be a firebrand.</p>

4

<p>Actually, you are telling a complete lie; the only top school that I slagged is Harvard. I did not slag a single other top school.
And there are very good reasons to slag Harvard. Harvard does not give nearly enough attention to its undergrads.</p>

5

<p>If you keep up that attitude, you will most likely become miserable. Chances are, you probably won't get into HYPSM. All the adcoms agree that the college search should not be a "game," and it has become way too competitive; people are so concerned about attaining prestige that they do not appreciate the fact that they are blessed enough to even have the chance to receive a college education.</p>

6

<p>Ok, I never made a thread specifically to ask people to rank the schools in order of networking prowess. I don't know what you are talking about.</p>

<p>Many people will agree with me that having Harvard, Yale, etc. undergrad on your resume will not make much of a difference over where you end up in life. Think about it. The head of a law firm would have to be completely inept to hire a lawyer because he went to Harvard for undergrad. At undergrad school, you are exploring different subjects and there is no guarantee that you even took a law class there. However, if he knows you went to harvard law school for grad school, he will know that you have a solid foundation and education in law. Grad school prestige is far more important. Some of the factors that help people gain admission to Stanford, Yale, etc. also have nothing to do with how he will perform his job. For example, between 2 people with 4.0's and 2300's, but one is a national champion in sailing, and shows great passion , while the other person has below average ec's, the national debate champion has a far greater chance of being accepted and gettig Harvard on his resume, while the other person will have a much lesser chance of getting that "prestigious" harvard diploma. Being a national champion in sailing will not help at all when in a law firm, but it helped one guy get that "prestigious Harvard diploma." So basically, when you hire someone jsut because he went to Harvard for undergrad, you have no idea whether or not the special skills that helped him gain acceptance will actually have a use as a lawyer.</p>

7

<p>The many people who "would agree" with you are wrong. I'm not saying you can't do just as well having gone to any school, I've lived among the elite educated all of my life and trust me, an ivy never stops being a wow factor in their lives that opens doors.</p>

8

<p>What about schools just as tough to get into/ competitive as the Ivies like Rice, Amherst, etc.?</p>

<p>Are you saying top 25 universities/lac's in general or just the Ivies?</p>

<p>What professions would going to ivies open doors for you?</p>

<p>I find it difficult to believe that someone will give you a job just just becaue you went to an Ivy for undergrad. What if you went to UT for undergrad but went to Harvard for law school? Why does it matter where you went for undergrad? Seriously, only an idiot would hire someone just because he went to a prestigious undergrad school.</p>

9

<p>Exactly how are they trying to scare people into doing this? Advertising their benefits and excellence is hardly a derogatory call to dismiss "lesser colleges." Society may assign values to attendance in such colleges, and students may be snobbish, but I fail to see how colleges are perpetuating the notion.</p>

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<p>How do these two relate?

[quote]
When a parent says "My kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by how many AP's he/she has taken" I say "...and your kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by whether or not he/she goes to HYPSM."

[/quote]

[quote]
The colleges are trying to convince kids that their worth should be measured by whether or not they get into HYPSM because those noobs support the us news rankings.

[/quote]

The first quote is saying that students' worth should not be measured by whether or not they get into HYPSM.</p>

<p>Am I missing something?</p>

11

<p>@ OP -- Are you communist?</p>

<p>Anyways, I think what he's trying to say is that they're lying -- and that's proven in the fact that they do put so much emphasis on blah blah blah -- AP scores, SAT -- to manipulate their USNWR ranking and prestige? </p>

<p>And btw Jmanco, you only dislike the Ivies because it seems they have a national prominence that Rice lacks. But locally, these same schools -- Rice especially -- as you know well, dominate the local job markets and only face competition from schools like UT Mccombs/Grad Law, and the more prominent national universities.</p>

<p>So If I was a St. Thomas/UH grad btching about how Rice takes away so many opportunities for us and that it's overrated and way to expensive, what would you say?</p>

12

<p>OK: I'll bite (although I'm regretting even as I type).</p>

<p>"The colleges are trying to convince kids that their worth should be measured by whether or not they get into HYPSM because those noobs support the us news rankings."</p>

<p>You generalize and place judgment values so much it's pretty sad. Firstly, while I'm sure the top-ranked schools don't mind being at the top of the USNWR list, they consistently vocalize their disappointment that students and society in general use that crude measure. When I graduated, my alma mater was ranked no. 1. Whoopee doo.</p>

<p>"They are trying to scare kids into thinking that if they don't go somewhere prestigious, they're losers without prestige or connections."</p>

<p>Who is "they"? The schools? They didn't create the rankings and there's a movement to diminish their existence from many schools themselves. It's OUR HYPER-COMPETITIVE culture that wants labels and shortcuts. Read the tons of 8th and 9th graders who are lured by "Ivy" when they don't know the first thing about what it is to derive a great undergraduate education. It pains me the never-ending stream of people who look to the Ivy label as the be-all and end-all. I agree with you here 100% but the blame is not due to the schools. It's US. When I was accepted by my HYP alma mater, I had no idea about "rankings". Sure I was aware of the "name recognition" but in October of my Senior year, a top midwestern school had accepted me and was plying me with tons of $. Thanksgiving of my Senior year, I drove a friend to this HYP info session and was blown away. I had no Ivy dreams previously but I was sold. I applied and was admitted. No one made me feel lesser if I hadn't gone there. The school itself sold me -- not some fear of societal inadequacy. This inadequacy has crept in over the last few years, I guarantee it. But again, that's not the schools' fault or hypocrisy.</p>

<p>"They want more people to apply so they can boost their ranking and selectivity."</p>

<p>And what evidence do you have that these top schools are gaming this? The reason for the exponential growth in apps (especially HYPMSC) is due to three main factors: 1) Common App adoption leading to people applying to 10-12 colleges whereas people used to apply to 3-4, 2) internet and widespread "buzz" about the top institutions leading to many more apps from all over the USA and internationally and 3) increased demographics and rising educationally excellence.</p>

<p>Your declarations that someone would hire an Harvard college grad only because of the H diploma -- that hiring manager doesn't have a long career. In the real world, Ivy degrees get noticed for sure but it's only a single factor. In the labor pool, those of us who are looking for good people (BA or graduate degree holders) know there's plenty to consider beyond what school conferred a degree. Are there advantages? Sure but one needs to prove their mettle. Whether Rice or Columbia or Wichita State, doesn't matter to me. I know tons of fantastic co-workers, subordinates and superiors who come from a variety of backgrounds. I'm honored to work below or next to these people regardless of their alma maters. Your irritation of the perks of prestige and name is quite high and smells of jealousy. I don't struggle with it because I rarely discuss my alma mater in public but am appreciative for my experience there.</p>

<p>finally I apologize about exaggerating your slagging of "top schools". But your continual over-generalizations and declarations and posts make you a firebrand in my book.</p>

13

<p>

Then the world is full of idiots. Prestige matters. Deal with it.</p>

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<p>Bourne - He'd cry and the irony of the thread title would be staggering.</p>

<p>By the way, that sailing champion does have skills he can use out of college - the drive to succeed, competitive spirit, determination, dedication, the list can go on and on. You don't become a champion in anything without some positive qualities.</p>

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<p>Actually, the passage that you quoted completely contradicts the point that you were trying to make, to the extent that your post even had a coherent point.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Being a national champion in sailing will not help at all when in a law firm, but it helped one guy get that "prestigious Harvard diploma." So basically, when you hire someone jsut because he went to Harvard for undergrad, you have no idea whether or not the special skills that helped him gain acceptance will actually have a use as a lawyer.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know several sailors who are national champions, and I am familiar with the mental and physical tenacity and devotion required to win national races. (Which often includes spending days out in rough open seas in bad weather in a small boat. Not many people can do that.) I would certainly consider these attributes valuable when hiring a lawyer.</p>

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<p>Does the OP go to Rice? That would make sense because I've never heard anyone say Rice was as hard to get into as an ivy before. Most of the world has never heard of Rice.</p>

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<p>Rice's 22 percent acceptance rate is less than cornell's and really close UPenn's 18 percent acceptance rate.</p>

<p>I never said I hated the Ivies. Dratmouth, Brown, Penn, Cornell, Yale, are incredible places. Just because I think the college leaders for some of those schools are hypocritical doesn't mean I wouldn't wnt to go there.</p>

<p>I never said it was entirely the schools' fault for creating this pressured culture. However, it is extremely hypocritical that the college leaders tell people to ignore the rankings and that prestige doesn't matter; those schools could choose to not give data to usnews but they do anyways because they want to get a good ranking. Also, many schools on their web pages advertise how the schools have been on "Princeton Review's top college list" in hopes of attracting more applicants.</p>

<p>Here lies the hypocrisy. Many of these school leaders say that the rankings don't matter and that the college admission process is getting too competitive, yet they continue to support and take advantage of the ranking system to attract more applicants.</p>

19

<p>"They want more people to apply so they can boost their ranking and selectivity."</p>

<p>of course colleges want more people to apply; all colleges are like that. Not just Harvard. And, although it may not mean much, but two of my cousins have gone to the same top school, and it helped them get an education that led them to go on to great grad schools in the country. Meaning, they can get great jobs as well with their education. I doubt that's a bad reason to go to a prestigious school...</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Does the OP go to Rice? That would make sense because I've never heard anyone say Rice was as hard to get into as an ivy before. Most of the world has never heard of Rice.

[/quote]

I don't think the OP is a Rice student, but it is completely reasonable to compare Rice to most of the ivies when it comes to difficulty of gaining admission. Besides, when has the opinion of "most of the world" ever affected the reality of top school admissions? The same people who have not heard of Rice are probably the ones who don't know what Dartmouth is or who confuse UPenn with Penn State.</p>