<p>Why do we assume that just because there is no financial aid, that parents have $60K per year to spend on college? That is not the case in many instances and it doesn’t always involve divorce or parents that don’t want to pay. I would love to be able to do it, I just don’t want to take out $200K in loans.</p>
<p>“No, OP is grappling with confusing situation”</p>
<p>OP needs to explain the specifics of the situation better then. </p>
<p>Prestige, and the struggle for it, much as we like to look down at it seems to be part of human nature - its about asserting one self, asserting ones place in the social hierarchy. I would look up quotes from Veblen, Hegel, etc but I don’t have time. People who came from a background where no one could afford a private college might feel that having their child attend one is a special feather in their cap. </p>
<p>On the other end $$ have many uses, and college is for most MAINLY about the education, and the life experience, which often correlate with prestige, but are far from the same. </p>
<p>As much as you may value the privacy of this family and not want to mention any details about their finances, the colleges, the student, etc it is NOT possible to say anything sensible without that information. As the above discussion of North Dakota farmers should make clear.</p>
<p>BTW, when you say they otherwise would not earn it, are you saying they would work less?</p>
<p>Unless my retirement were fully funded, including being able to start dipping into it in the near future due to an unforseen illness or accidnet, the answer is no. </p>
<p>We decided how much we could spend years before our son started the application process and told him the figure. Anything over that amount would have to be made up in scholarships (we were also unwilling to co-sign for loans.) </p>
<p>This was more difficult in practice than theory. However, our son made it work and we could not be more proud of his choices and his good attitude.</p>
<p>In life there are always going to be things that feel like a perfect fit that are simply not attainable. The person you believe to be your soul mate does not feel the same way. The dream job you’ve worked so hard for is given to someone else. The house that felt like “home” gets a higher bid. </p>
<p>Fit is important but we put a higher value in blooming where you are planted. That is a skill that will serve our son his entire life.</p>
<p>Perpetual CC thread. Wish we could just string them all together…</p>
<p>My DD had a couple of very expensive top 25 options and her one and only financial safety state school (top 50)</p>
<p>If I had known then what i know now, I would have suggested a gap year and reapplying to privates with FAFSA as I learned that for our circumstances FAFSA works, Profile did not.</p>
<p>If you have been accepted and learned that some class of private would offer better aid, then reapply to those schools.</p>
<p>Or make the best of the affordable school. When my DD (who is now pursuing a PhD) graduated from undergrad, I was incredibly pleased that we had not taken the offered loans for the expensive schools!</p>
<p>“Fit is important but we put a higher value in blooming where you are planted.”</p>
<p>that is a great value. I know several students who have come running back home after one year in college, and are either “chilling” or heading to the local community college while they figure things out. They did not necessarily have that experience because they chose a cheaper option, but the point is NOT everyone blooms where they are planted, and while its great to teach a youngster adaptability, it is also good to teach them “Know thyself” </p>
<p>One of those above students is gifted but with a significant learning disability. She passed up a small private for an OOS public with a strong program she was interested in. She’s not at the OOS public anymore and we do not know where she will end up. It confirmed us in OUR decision to send our DD, who is ADHD, to a small private rather than the instate public that directly competes on both DD’s expected major and related ones. It will cost more (though DD will get financial aid including merit aid, narrowing the gap by a good bit).</p>
<p>I agree, Bbd. We took our son out of public school and homeschooled him for two years when it became clear that the situation was beyond repair.</p>
<p>So, yes, not everyone blooms where they are planted and things like ADHD must be factored in. Even I, who takes a hard line on these things, would absolutely take on debt for my child to be educated appropriately. Having said that, too often adults are validating for children with no learning special needs that unless there is a near perfect fit, then they cannot be expected to do well.</p>
<p>My two decades as a military spouse have no doubt colored my view on this. I’m from NJ but have spent the majority of my adult life living in California, which I love and Texas, which I do not love. I spent a year convinced I could never be happy here but when even I got tired of my bad attitude, I changed my mind. Texas didn’t change, I did and what a huge difference it made in my life.</p>
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<p>Ok. More detail to hypothetical situation. Suppose that said hypothetical kid, K, a modestly bright individual, has a fighting chance of being accepted to one of the Ivies, which K loved and where it seems like K would be right at home, if you know what I mean. If accepted, hypothetical parents have to be prepared to say “yes” or “no”. </p>
<p>However, they have a very high EFC due to the way FAFSA counts assets (ergo no financial aid), but spending or borrowing against the assets is very problematic. In order to fund this proposal they would almost certainly have to work more and/or work longer, in addition to cutting back on the household budget. </p>
<p>H-parents first reaction to this possibility is “no - we can’t do it.” However, H-mom grew up in such poverty and disfunction that the phrase she heard most commonly for her first 19 years was “we can’t afford it”. H-mom left home then, swore she would see to it that those 4 words would never again be the deciding factor to what she wanted in her life, put herself through assorted public colleges and universities, climbed a huge mountain of obstacles, and never looked back. </p>
<p>People want lots of things with their discretionary money - a better home, better cars, vacations, vacation homes, a boat, a pool, etc. H-parents don’t have toys. They have a nice but reasonable suburban home and nicer cars. The ultimate measure of success for H-mom is to send K and K2 to whatever college they choose and can get accepted to without regard for how much it costs. The prestige of said school just makes it all the more so.</p>
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<p>Add an expensive college education to the list. Regardless of how you justify it, we don’t need an expensive college education to do well in life. A state funded education will do the job just fine.</p>
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<p>If that is what H-mom wants, she should do it if her husband agrees. It’s his and her money and what they do with it is their choice.</p>
<p>With that said, putting the kid through an expensive college education isn’t a guarantee that the child won’t live in poverty or that the the parents will not have to worry about affording things in the future.</p>
<p>I would settle that question before submitting the application. Once both parents agreed on the answer, the student knows what to expect. Waiting to see whether the student is accepted before deciding whether to pay is immature and not fair to anyone involved. We don’t owe our kids an expensive education, but we do owe them responsible parents.</p>
<p>pugmad - it all depends on what the tradeoffs are. I lived in Jacksonville Fl for 3 years right out of grad school and hated it (I eventually moved to Baltimore Md and loved it) Before the Baltimore opportunity came up, I looked for a job in NYC. The jobs I was looking at would have paid enough of a premium to compensate for the COL difference, they would have made it possible to live in a small apt in Manhattan or a larger one in yuppie Brooklyn. When I didnt get those, I considered looking for one that would pay the same salary. I told my brother I would move back to a lower middle class neighborhood in Brooklyn like the one we grew up in. He thought I was crazy. Then he wasn’t living in Jacksonville. So there’s fit, and there’s fit, and there’s tradeoffs, and there’s tradeoffs.</p>
<p>Fit in a college is not of infinite worth, but its not worth zero. Is it worth 200k - the difference between 4 years full price at private and a free ride? 120k - the difference between full price at a private and full price at many instate flagships? Lower differences, where the more expensive choice gives merit aid (or if you have an EFC unlike the OP that allows for need based aid from a private, and you get that in grants)?</p>
<p>I think to argue EITHER way without knowledge of the details makes no sense.</p>
<p>Its my last major contribution to my children’s lives (thankfully only 2 of them). I will keep my car longer, work a few more years than I probably would have if I hadn’t had them, but thats OK.</p>
<p>I know my very rigorous private college education made a huge difference in my life. Was it possible to get the same at a state school? Probably. But knowing me, at a state school, I would have just skated by on my brains, gotten good grades in decent classes, and never have sought out the intellectual stimulation that was practically forced on me at my college. And for the latter, I am eternally grateful.</p>
<p>"In order to fund this proposal they would almost certainly have to work more and/or work longer, in addition to cutting back on the household budget. "</p>
<p>your OP implies they have several kids. Are all the others already in college, or do they still have kids at home? If they are empty nesters, like their work, don’t find it a physical strain, and weren’t looking forward to the empty nest time to renew their relationship, thats a different situation than if they have kids at home, are going to find the longer hours onerous, etc. </p>
<p>I assume the Ivy in question is Cornell, Penn, Columbia or Brown. If they only have a fighting chance at one, I assume its not HYP. And that no one is thinking of a choice like this for Dartmouth 
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<p>I assume the other choice is an instate flagship? Some of which are more prestigious than others, I am sure the hypothetical family realizes.</p>
<p>Did do this for two with no regret whatsoever.</p>
<p>Bbd - Hypothetical parents have 2 kids. K2 is 2 years behind K1. Assume Ivy in question is Cornell. Assume it is the only Ivy K1 is interested in (hypothetically doesn’t want to go as far away as all the others). Other choices are 1 in-state LAC which seems highly regarded, and several privates which would be likely to offer merit aid based on test scores. Full ride anywhere is unlikely based on gpa.</p>
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<p>Excellent point. Having been through it, I tell all my friends with younger kids to calculate their EFC their child’s Freshman or Sophomore year of high school. That way they can make the financial decision and be very clear with their child. It seems to me that the saddest threads here are from students who were never given a clear answer prior to submitting their applications.</p>
<p>If Parents’ EFC is about the same as the cost of attendance at the expensive school, and it is a school which meets full need, they might get very generous financial aid for the two overlap years when both kids are in college. They would pay their EFC for 6 years rather than 8.</p>
<p>I would and did tell my kids before they applied to college how much I was able and willing to pay, in rough terms. </p>
<p>The tough question isn’t really the one the OP posed (except for parents who don’t bother to think or plan ahead) – the harder one is – suppose parents decide that they will contribute a maximum of $X for kid’s college education; kid gets into prestige/dream school, which - with financial aid will cost $X + 10% or $X + 20%… what then? I didn’t have to make that decision but I came pretty close. </p>
<p>It’s easy to establish ground rules in advance and to know that in no circumstances will you foot the bill for a $55K a year for college. It’s tougher when you tell the kid that the maximum you can possibly come up with is $20K and you are confronted with a bill for $24K … all of the sudden the decision is being made in the margins. Do you make the kid turn down Harvard over $4K?</p>
<p>I normally refrain from jumping into the fray in discussions like this, but I think that a lot of previous posters are missing the boat here.</p>
<p>The cost of college is so high for full-pay families in large part because they are subsidizing those who have been allowed, indeed encouraged, by the college/university to pay less. I know that the HYP set that gives lavish financial aid also consists of the schools with the largest endowments, but most of those institutions are only taking about 6% of annual operating expenses from endowment (which I have no problem with as that is what is recommended by the “experts” in order to preserve the endowment’s value over time). That means that tuition payments are making up the difference.</p>
<p>Take an upper middle class American family earning $250,000 per year in an average to slightly higher than average COL area or a family earning $300k in a super high COL area (ie NY metro). Many of these families are living in nice homes but not oceanfront mansions. They are driving a safe, modern, likeable vehicle, but not a luxury SUV. They are vacationing, but not going on an African safari or European vacation every year. The point is that these upper middle class families are living well below their means in order to save for retirement and children’s college ed. </p>
<p>The majority of families I know in that set saved diligently and, between what they could take out of current income with a few sacrifices and whatever was in a 529 or the like, could pay OOS tuition at all but the priciest state universities. Where things became dicier is the $50-55k/year private. This is essentially an additional $10-15k per annum out of pocket, which represents a significant sacrifice for people who are not living that lavishly as it is. </p>
<p>But what bothers me is that the tuition could probably be at least $5k a year lower were universities not giving out any financial aid beyond what they could finance with endowment. </p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to say here is, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Because the system requires us, in paying tuition, to pay into colleges’ financial aid coffers, thus enabling lower-income families to have more choices in where to send their children, hardworking upper middle class families often find themselves in the unenviable position of choosing between an Ivy or Ivy peer, paying for which would probably require a parent to retire at a later age than he or she had planned and/or have a lower income in retirement; their state school, which may or may not offer Junior what he needs; and a school that has offered merit aid, which, again, may or may not be the best fit when you consider more than finances.</p>
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You could have hit on something there, mythmom. Hypothetical mom would never regret trying. She might regret not trying.</p>