<p>OK, so she's not like my DD.</p>
<p>DadII: Merit aid at Wash U requires more than great test scores. It requires top credentials across the board. It also requires special applications that include several additional essays. Academic scholarships at Wash U are very hard to come by: Basically, Wash U (like Emory, Vanderbilt, and some other schools) uses huge merit scholarships to woo students who have been admitted to even higher ranked schools. Take a look at this link for a description of the various academic scholarships and requirements for applying for them: <a href="http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Levsel%20Pages_Scholarships_scholarship_Instructions.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Levsel%20Pages_Scholarships_scholarship_Instructions.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1</a></p>
<p>Math I or Math II is required for each of the schools here, not only Math II; if applying to CAS, there are no specific requirements on the SAT II tests taken:
<a href="http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear/Freshman_Admission_Requirements_Grid.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear/Freshman_Admission_Requirements_Grid.pdf</a></p>
<p>k- if she REALLLLLLY wanted to go to Cornell, she would have prepped some</p>
<p>Kids will do what they want to do to get what they want, if you get my drift</p>
<p>I wonder how much of going to cornell is HER dream.....</p>
<p>and OMG a sub 700 score...egad the horrooorrrrr</p>
<p>if it was important to HER she would study, but my gut tells me there are other things going on and maybe Cornell really isn't her dream anymore</p>
<p>or she really wants it but its way too risky to let everyone know, including herself, how much she really wants it, by studying right now.</p>
<p>also, as a mom of a similar kid (her scores aren't as high as your d's though: wow!) I am seeing some plain old burn out. my d said the other night, "I knew junior year was going to be hard, but I thought I'd really be able to enjoy my senior year" 6 AP's, a fall varsity sport, club officer duties and college apps have sucked the fun out of September and October...we're hoping when the apps are done, things will calm down a little...am trying not to nag, and, yes, my hair is thinner too. you have company.</p>
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I am pulling my hairs because her actions lack logics. If she could accept going to State U, I will be perfectly fine with that.</p>
<p>She wants to go to top schools but she does not seem to understand how small % a chance for any one to get in there, let alone to get any merit aid. It is not just this Math II.
[/quote]
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<p>I know how frustrating this is, but you have to remember that this is your daughter's process, not yours. Since YOU are "perfectly fine" with State U, and she has already submitted her application --- you can let go. She will have a place to go next year. As a parent, I know we don't want to see our kids facing disappointment, but that's part of life. Most kids get over it -- and the type of kid who would rather volunteer to be part of a stage crew than study for a standardized test is also the type who will probably get involved in all sorts of activities at the State U and be very happy there. </p>
<p>In a way, it may even be better if your daughter is rejected from her top choice colleges, than if she gets in but does not get merit aid and you cannot afford it. At least you won't face the hard task of being the one to tell your daughter no to something she wants very much -- and there will be no feelings of anger or resentment over your inability or unwillingness to finance her "dream" college. </p>
<p>I was in a similar situation because my daughter had really poor SAT II scores, and moderate level SAT's & ACTs -- and she wouldn't study. She also had high aspirations -- schools where I didn't think she had a chance. </p>
<p>But in the spring of junior year I had an experience with shook me up -- I got into an argument with my daughter about her not studying for the test and she got very upset & was crying. She was very hurt & upset and the next day because she was distracted & unhappy she got into a minor car accident. Fortunately no one was hurt -- it was just a "fender bender" - but this did result in a huge increase to our car insurance rates, and more important it made me realize that I was wrong to be fighting with my d. about something relatively insignificant like a test. It simply wasn't worth undermining my relationship with my d. -- I knew I had to appreciate her and accept her as she was and not try to force her to be something else. </p>
<p>So the next fall I resolved to simply insist that my d. apply to our state u. system --and then let go of all worrying and nagging. I would keep track of deadlines for applications and of test dates and let her know, but I wouldn't pressure her or remind her repeatedly. I figured I would let her do her own thing, and simply assume that she would end up attending a UC campus the following fall. </p>
<p>As it happened, she did get into several colleges that I would have thought impossible with her high school record and test scores -- so if there was a lesson to be learned about the need to study for exams, my d. didn't learn it. Maybe that was luck, or maybe it was fate -- or maybe these boards led me to focus far too much on "stats" and not on all the facets of my daughter's personality that apparently impressed her teachers and the college ad coms as well. </p>
<p>The point is -- it is not your job as a parent to get your d. into WashU or Cornell. It does make sense for you to make sure she has a good safety you can afford, but it sounds like you have done that with the State U. application. So if you are sure she will be admitted to State U... there is nothing more for you to worry about. If she wants to attend Cornell or WashU.... then she is the one who has to put together an application strong enough to gain acceptance. </p>
<p>So... let it go. You can help by making sure she has a good breakfast Saturday morning and driving her to the test site; on the way to the test site talk to her about how smart & capable she is and how you are sure she will do well. (There are studies that show that test scores are impacted heavily simply based on the messages that the person receives before taking the test -- so it helps to be positive! The irony is that all the nagging about studying can backfire if it undermines confidence).</p>
<p>calmom, thanks for your thougtful post. May be I did not make it clear. She completed the on line version of application to state U in minutes. I guess the essay were only 5 sentences long. </p>
<p>She said yes to apply to Vandy after I gave her all the facts. The admission office from Vandy visited and she said she would participated in the session. Last night I asked her how did it go, her answer - I don't want to go there and I wouldn't. I think she did not even go to the session. </p>
<p>BTW, she is still at school now right.</p>
<p>PS, I told her in very clear terms that we will not be able to pay for full COA at WashU and she will have 120K debt after school. She said "so".</p>
<p>The craziness is that all you're trying to do is help her get to HER goal. WIth all the fussing about it, maybe she forgot and now thinks it's your goal.</p>
<p>To instill some logic in your D you might ask her, "I was just wondering; how is your approach going to get YOU to where YOU say YOU want to go?" </p>
<p>Usually people say to use "I" messages, but when kids just arent seeing the logical consequences of their current actions, I think it's better to keep saying the pronoun "you" -- your goal. Is it getting you to your goal? I favor asking rhetorical questions, so she has to go in upon herself and ask herself things. Get the spotlight off of your upset and onto her. Not accusing her, I don't mean that at all. But just remind her that you've been to school already so this isn't about you at all. These were things I said to my S, just to get him to wake up and pay attention a tiny bit to how he was undoing himself. I told him once that "as parents, it's our job to see around the corners ahead of you, so we can warn you what's ahead, but in the end, it;s your path.</p>
<p>My H is very effective when he talks to the kids because he always ends his pitch with this line, "Think about it..." This puts the ball back in their court and dignifies them. And I think they DO think about things when he says it that way, in the softest voice, not judgmental. It's just his way of saying, "Ive said my peace, done all I can, now I surrender, it's really up to you what you will do next."</p>
<p>But you know, I said all my little phrases, but finally when I saw he STILL wasn't studying for the SAT's, I finally reached my limit. I said to him, without anger, "That's It." (It was a few weeks before the date).
"I've told you I think you need to study more. There's no more ways I can say it. So I will never mention it again." The amazing thing is: I kept my word. If he studied behind closed doors a little bit, I will never know. I don't think he did much.</p>
<p>In the end, though, he applied to 8 schools, got into 3 of them, chose his favorite of the 3, and is so happy today as a freshman it's unbelievable.
He didn't get into his very first choice, but that disappointment was only temporary when he saw he did have a future elsewhere. Looking at it today, he and I think he's better off where he is than what he thought was his first choice then. </p>
<p>Remember that they only have to go to one place when all this smoke clears away.</p>
<p>BY THE WAY, does the play perform this weekend? If so she will probably be working flat out. They call the week before the performance weekend "hell week" in theater because it requires so much time, especially from the crew. This is very unconventional advice, but have you considered letting her sleep in on Friday morning, since you must assume she'll be working very late if the play performs Friday night. That way at least she won't be exhausted by Saturday mornng, and can think clearly when she sits down to the test. You might not do things like this in your household (letting a kid sleep in on a school day), but she will certainly be very tired by Saturday morning this way. Under no circumstances let her go to a cast party Friday night; usually they wait until the show is finished ALL performances before a cast party. Do try to let her go to that, it's a good memory for her hard work and not the place to "draw the line" UNLESS it's on Friday night!</p>
<p>p3T, I just got her home and confirmed that it will be a play tomorrow. I will talk to my wife to see if we just move the test date out. It will be too much for her to take the any test. </p>
<p>What upset me more is that no one from her senior class apparently is in the crew. If she does not step in, she said there is no one else to do her part (I don't believe that for one minute). </p>
<p>We just had a big arguement. Somehow she got the idea that Math IIC is only 9th grade math and she does not need any "refresher". I said I am doing this because we care about you and love you. Her answer was "yet, so I am here just to fail so I could rain your life". </p>
<p>Obviously she believes what she is doing is 100% correct. Where do I go from here?</p>
<p>The ACT was a much better test for my son - he got around an 1850 SAT, going down from the PSAT big time, to a 34 composite ACT.</p>
<p>He thought it was a much better test.</p>
<p>I read the thread title and thought this was about nasal grooming...</p>
<p>Dad II -- I don't know what state you are in, but most state U's pretty much admit "by the numbers" -- it probably doesn't matter that your daughter's essay is very short. If her high school grades and test scores are good enough for the State U, then she'll probably be admitted, unless you live in a state where admission the State U. is far more competitive. </p>
<p>Also, you are guessing on the length of the essay -- she may have a longer essay that she has already written and then simply copied (using cut & paste functions) into the online form. She may have had someone else (a friend or teacher) help with proofreading the essay.</p>
<p>I don't know whether you read my post before or after your big argument -- but the answer to "Where do I go from here" is let it go, and let your daughter make her own mistakes and be the master of her own successes. </p>
<p>I think its a mistake to move the test date unless your daughter asks you to. For one thing, if your daughter does not do well on the test, that may be the wakeup call she needs to start looking at more safety schools. So it doesn't help her or you to delay that lesson-- you'll just cut into the time she has to research other schools. </p>
<p>The other thing is that something else might come up in any event -- or, given the history, she may simply be unwilling to study for these tests.</p>
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Obviously she believes what she is doing is 100% correct. Where do I go from here?
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</p>
<p>You let her take the test and see what happens. If she does well and surprises you, all is well. If she does terribly, she's learned a lesson. Better she learns not to take tests for granted before she begins college. If she does terribly on the test, she may realize a few more applications need to go in. There are rolling admissions schools and schools with later app dates if that is the case. She may throw a fit, she may be devastated, but she will get over it and be a better, more mature person for it.</p>
<p>It's hard when a teenager decides to take a course of action with which we as adults don't agree. But college - applications, tests, grades, etc. - is entirely in the hands of the student. The more you interfere or advise, the less she will see herself as responsible. I think you truly have her best interests at heart, but she's already aware of how you feel. For the sake of you sanity and hers, I'd drop the subject completely and let her go on her merry way. She'll need your sage advice if she falls on her face.</p>
<p>Parenting near-adults is a lot harder than parenting small children, isn't it? :)</p>
<p>Dad II, I think you should let her decide what to do about taking the SAT II math 2 test on Saturday. There would be war in my household if I made that decision for my kids, and it sounds to me like there is plenty of unrest in your home already without asking for more. If she is willing to put it off, that would be good, given the busy weekend. If she insists on getting it over with, so be it. She will probably make the right decision if she is left to make it herself. If you force the issue, she will be resentful. </p>
<p>Now that my son is away at college, I regret every little squabble we had last year. (He was never a difficult kid, so there were not many.) This is the last year you have before she is off and away. Try to make it a good one. She is a smart girl, and she will find her way. It will be easier for her to do so if you are still talking to each other.</p>
<p>WashDad, we are trying to have a serious discussion here! The poor man is yanking his hair out and all you can think about is your hairy nose?</p>
<p>I know, you are feeling dismissive because you are all done with this stuff for the time being...</p>
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Where do I go from here?
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<p>The play itself and the long hours are making her cross and irritable. Everyone is probably upset and excited with the show about to open. That isn't her fault or yours, but it adds to the stress.</p>
<p>It is late Thursday night already. If it were in my home, I would go and ask her whether she wants to take the test on Saturday or cancel it.</p>
<p>If she still wants to take it, ask her if she might do better if she had a day off of school tomorrow TO SLEEP LATE AND STUDY. Since she's capable in Math, perhaps a day to just brush up on formulas will help her. </p>
<p>Don't fuss with her tomorrow, just let her sleep and then study, then go off to the play.</p>
<p>Offer to drive her home from the play so she can get a good night's sleep, rather than ask others for a ride home or in any way cause her to stay later at the school tomorrow night.</p>
<p>Do not argue or discuss anything about the test or colleges from now until she comes home after taking the test.</p>
<p>Let her put all her energy into doing the best she can for the test. With good rest and calm support, she might surprise you very positively with the result.</p>
<p>If not, she won't be able to say that you were the ones who upset her or threw her off rigth before the test. She won't have you to blame. </p>
<p>I honestly think she got cranky and argued because she's too darned tired from the theater schedule. (PS, My kids are all theater majors. It;s THursday night before the play opens and every kid there is overworked and stressed.)</p>
<p>How much will she learn tomorrow at school? I know some on this site disagree with me, in principle, to excuse her from a day of school, but that was the only way we could manage it sometimes right before a play if it was also a standardized test weekend. </p>
<p>I got the idea from my own Mom 43 years ago. She let me take off a day of school the Friday before my Bat Mitzvah (a big pressure night). It helped me so much to do my best, and showed me she was on my side.</p>
<p>Ignore her comment, "in it to fail" etc. as the sound of an exhausted child.</p>
<p>Quit being so worried and just let the chips fall where they may. The world is more than test scores..your child is reacting to your control issues by not doing what you want re the test.</p>
<p>I do not hassle my kids about any SATs or ACTs of any form. It will be what it will be. Let it go and the kids will be fine...</p>
<p>And then there is voting with the feet -- by a kid's actions she lets you know what her true values are. The math SAT II is usually only necessary for engineering programs. Most liberal arts programs give you a free choice for SAT II's. It's not too late to switch if she wants to. You can walk in the morning of the test and switch areas, provided that particular test is given
Sat.</p>
<p>Each kid lets her parent know the ratio or worry, striving, academics, ec's, fun, etc. that is appropriate to her. This may determine the college she attends, and isn't this a good thing?</p>
<p>DS was spread so thin with EC's he won a scholarship from his school as the school "Renaissance Man." His grades could have been a bit higher; his test scores could have been too, but both were impressive and they represented the limit of what this particular kid was willng to do on this front.</p>
<p>I think the main reason he was accepted to Williams (not that his academics were not impressive, they were) was because of his interest in some many different things. His personal acceptance letter said as much. This was his first choice school and it is an excellent match for him because it does value his extracurricular participation.</p>
<p>I learned to hope that adcoms would really see my children and only accept them at places they would fit in and meet the expectations of the school. T have to say that's exactly what happened.</p>
<p>If S had crammed more perhaps his results would have been a bit better, but his ec's would have suffered, and the outcome may have been different. But this way, his school is suited to his authentic values, a good think IMO.</p>
<p>Went to a meeting the other night and they talked about deminishing returns when it comes to school, studying, tests, etc</p>
<p>somethimes the work we put it doesn't equal what is put out after a point and we lose something else just as powerful</p>
<p>let it go and a mental health break day on Friday is a good idea</p>
<p>There isn't any high powered math on the Math 2 test, but the questions can be more "logic" and thus not as straight forward as a test taker might hope.</p>
<p>She is right that she doesn't need to prep learning more math (although I'd do a quick review on sum of arithmetic and geometric series and some permutation and combination topics, which I can never remember from one time to the next). Because the questions can be a little tricky, I advise kids to do practice problems even though they know the math.</p>
<p>My advice echoes CGM--let it go and move on.</p>