<p>soozievt, I was trying not to get in the middle of this situation. I'm pretty sure that most schools have closed that loophole of just submitting your ACT scores. My D only has taken the ACT and has no plans to take the SAT. At the schools that she is interested in that require SAT II's, none of them will let you submit your ACT in lieu of SAT/SAT II's. There may be schools that will let you just submit your ACT's but none of the schools my D is considering.</p>
<p>My D has a SAT II score that is really low. Seriously, it's low for everyone, not just CC low. She doesn't have the time to study and retake her SAT II. She adjusted her list based on that low SAT II score and is only applying to one school that requires SAT II's. I don't know what Dad II's D will do, if she doesn't want to study, well then she is the one to pay the consequences.</p>
<p>Is it just me or do Dad II's posts remind me of another poster?</p>
<p>I'm a theatre arts teacher . . . so I feel I have a right to comment on this. </p>
<p>Maybe your daughter decided that studying right before the big test wasn't going to help much--standardized tests really need preparation more than a week before the testing date so that the material and the test taking techniques can sink in.</p>
<p>IMHO I think she did a wise thing. She stayed loyal to a group and her school by working on the play. When she needs a recommendation from a teacher, the head of the drama department would be the one to go to. The teacher will be able not only to comment on her academic work (which is usually all any other teacher can comment on) but also in such areas as team work, loyalty, faithfulness, commitment, responsibility, common sense/logic/problem solving skills, communication skills . . . etc.</p>
<p>Grades aren't everything, and most colleges would rather have a student who has learned to work well with others and can be committed to a program than one who isn't. These qualities are great "selling points" in the admission evaluation game.</p>
<p>I agree with everything said so beautifully in Post 82!</p>
<p>One thing, however, re: Letters of Recommendation from theater arts teachers:
first check each college's requirements and be sure that the LOR can be from other than a "core academic" subject. </p>
<p>S's LOR came from his teacher who taught him both APLanguage and Theater, 2 different courses, but one was Core Academic (the English). Teacher knew him academically, in the elective (theater) and onstage from the many plays he was in. </p>
<p>He also went to his Photography teacher but that was submitted as a Supplemental Letter of Recommendation, on top of his two Core Academic letters (from the English/theater, plus a HIstory teacher). Point is: teachers in the arts bring another perspective that is positive.</p>
<p>If this student of the thread has done well with her responsibilities onstage in crew, it could at least be a Supplemental LOR ! It can also be used for a short answer, or an essay, or to list on the EC activities. It's not worthless, even in the "arms race" ;) of college admission. It shows "well-rounded."</p>
<p>DS has interviewed at two schools so far. Most popular questions: 1) Tell me about your ECs. 2) What movies have you seen lately? 3) How did you get involved in X (EC/comm service/sport)? 4) What interests you about our school?</p>
<p>Awards and test scores NEVER come up. They want to know who the person is behind the number two pencil and bubble sheet.</p>
<p>deb922, which schools don't accept ACT in lieu of SAT II? I know that Yale and Brown both do; so do Vassar and Amherst. Harvard and Cornell don't. But to say "most" schools have closed that option is, I believe, incorrect.</p>
<p>Chedva...I agree that many schools allow the ACT to be subbed for the SAT Subject Tests. It is best to check directly with schools. But there are a small handful that don't allow substitutions and require SAT Subject Tests:</p>
<p>California Institute of Tech
Carnegie Mellon
Columbia
Cooper Union
Cornell
Dartmouth
Olin
Harvey Mudd
Haverford
MIT
NYU
Rice
UC system
Washington and Lee
Webb Institute
Williams
Harvard
Georgetown
Princeton</p>
<p>DadII's daughter, if her regular SATs were not as good as her ACT scores (he seemed to indicate that somewhere along the line on CC), should submit only her ACT scores, except in the case of Cornell, she would submit both, or at least the SATs anyway. (however, my feeling is that what DadII says is not such hot scores, may be good in most people's eyes and also in range for any school in the land)</p>
<p>Chedva,
I think you are correct. All colleges take the ACT instead of SAT and very few require SAT 2's if you submit ACT. The ones that come to mind are Harvard, Princeton, Rice (that require SAT 2's if you submit ACT)</p>
<p>I've shared this story before, but two years ago at our high school, the valedictorian had valedictorian as his top priority. He was known to rudely question the priorities of other top academic peers who chose to take unweighted classes (i.e. band, chorus, etc.). He was not very well respected. Yea, he made valedictorian, but was subsequently rejected from almost every school he applied to, except for big state U where he ended up at. He had nothing to add to his application/resume that showed any kind of teamwork, commitment, interests, etc.</p>
<p>To be honest, one thing that really, really bugs me is parents of kids who work behind the scenes of a production, who don't attend the production to support their kid. D1 did lots of behind the scenes work and we attended every production feasibly possible to show our support. D2 had mostly on-stage roles, but when she was assigned support crew jobs and not on stage, we were there, too, just as proud. </p>
<p>When I was in charge of feeding hoardes of kids after show choir competitions (usually around midnight, just prior to boarding a bus for a 3-4 hour ride back to our high school), I created a new policy. No one got fed until all the crew's work was done. Many, many times before I began this practice, the performers would load their own personal stuff on the bus, board it (because most times it was between -10 and 30 degrees outside) and wait for the crew to finish loading everything else. Before boarding the bus, they would grab their sandwich, chips, etc. Then when crew was finally done, they'd get whatever was left. I put a halt to this and told the performers, if they were hungry, and didn't want to wait to get on the bus with their food, then they needed to help crew because I wasn't going to hand out any food until everything was loaded. Then once everything was loaded, crew always got first dibs. It was my way of affirming the absolute necessity and commitment of crew. They work their butts off and often got little respect, but every chance I got, I tried to validate their presence in the groups.</p>
<p>teriwtt: What an excellent policy! And maybe this policy will someday give these same kids the idea of teamwork and helping out all on their own.</p>
<p>I did keep my mouth shut for the whole Friday night except - "what time do you want to be at school tomorrow? On our way to school, DD brought up about Vandy and I simply said " don't worry about that now, just relax and take this test". </p>
<p>Needless to say, she did not complete the test before time was called. Hope she will get a decent score. Double hope this will set up an example so she will do some study on her ACT.</p>
<p>The reason she is taking her SAT II Math I think is because Cornell requires it.</p>
<p>About putting small thing such as this fall play crew thing in her resume, that will make it a 10 page long. DD has so much to write besides her GPA and scores. </p>
<p>However, I will bring this point up to her GC in case the Math II score is very bad. </p>
<p>Dad II, I can empathize. S has done well, but I believe has underperformed to a degree. I believe it would be better to get a little more out of his ACT/SAT results to be in position for merit based awards. Unlike you, I have no hair to pull out, so I stopped pressing awhile ago. He knows that his options are going to be limited to not only fit, but affordability. We won't sacrifice much if the effort on his part is lacking in our opinion, as e has 3 other siblings following him. With the colleges he is looking at, those sticker prices are a luxury. State U is no bargain either. We have resigned ourselves to realizing that it may take a little more time for him to recognize the weight of his perceived lack of maximum effort. In the end, he will, one way or the other, have to be content with his options. We will learn to do the same.</p>
<p>DadII, I hope your hair is still intact! Your D's ACT of 34 is nothing to sneeze at! Do not be surprized that she might do the same thing with her next ACT test. I can tell our story: my D took the SAT, and her score "sucked". She was then very motivated to study and take the ACT last June, on which she surprizingly got a very good score (about 200 SAT points better if converted) even though she was ill that day. She decided that she still wanted to improve, and re-taken it this September. Well, the motivation was not there. Psychologically, she knew that she already had a very nice number in her pocket, and did a little worse, not better. Went to a football game the night before her second ACT, got up late, stuck in traffic, almost got lost on the way to the testing center...I kept my mouth shut through all these times. We'll see where she ends up, but I think she has a good mix of safeties, matches and reaches, so she'll be happy wherever she goes, and even has a good shot at merit aid at some schools on her list. She said that if a college does not like her because of who she is, that would not be a good college for her, even if it is HYP.</p>
<p>The only one not listed is Danforth Scholars which requires nomination by your GC. The Danforth deadline is about to pass - so if she is interested in Danforth Scholars she should talk to her GC as quickly as possible. Deadlines for the other scholarship are listed on the WashU site.</p>
<p>Her stats (GPA, SAT, ACT) will only help get her foot in the door. The first step is to be chosen as a semi finalist. You will find that all of the selected semi finalists will have great stats. The difference is in the ECs, essays, recomendations, community service etc. They are looking for difference makers and leaders. Semi finalists are invited for an all expense paid Scholars interview weekend at WashU. Attendance is mandatory. Here semi finalists go through rounds of activities and interviews before finalists (scholarship recipients) are chosen.</p>
<p>WashU also has other merit aid that does not require a seperate application. However all of that aid is a combo of merit and need based. Hope this gives you a better idea of how the merit aid works at WashU.</p>
<p>DadII: I think your "Don't worry about that now," so beautiful. And I really do believe that you, too, will have nothing to worry about. I believe your girl will come through just fine, but it is a horrible process -- like being ground up into hamburger.</p>
<p>LOL - looks like your dd has things under control, and it's time for you to take a backseat!</p>
<p>My dad used to tell me that if he hadn't taught me to make my own decisions by the time I was 16, it was too late.</p>
<p>Your daughter is doing fine, and unless I've missed a bunch of posts, she has done well with the decisions she's made, including her commitments to theatre.</p>
<p>I don't remember where you live, or how she did on the SATs, but she doesn't
need both ACT and SAT scores..... </p>