<p>So, I have to decide which school I am going to attend this week. I am choosing between University of Minnesota (UMN), University of Tulsa, and Wichita State University (WSU). I think that if I went to WSU I could stand out but am afraid that if I went there I would be jeopardizing my chances of getting into a good graduate school, and by good I mean Ivy League. I think that if I went to UMN my grades might be good but would not be nearly as good as they would be at WSU. Does anyone know how difficult it is to get good grades at UMN and Tulsa? I think UMN might be too big, making it more difficult to make an impression on my professors. I would rather live in Wichita than in Tulsa or Minneapolis. I think that at WSU I could do more outside the classroom because I wouldn't have as much homework and think that because of this I would actually try harder in all aspects of my life. But, UMN would provide me with better research opportunities and internships. Although, I could more easily get interships and conduct research at WSU. Tulsa would be good because it is small, but I think that I would be able to stand out much more at WSU. I am really torn between these three schools and would greatly appreciate any advice.</p>
<p>Oh, btw, I am planning on majoring in Biology, Math, Econ, or Finance, along with Spanish. But, I don't want to do anything with Spanish besides major in it. My career will either be something in Business or something with Math or Bio.</p>
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<p>will someone please say something?</p>
<p>Of the 3, my choice would be Tulsa, hands down, for undergraduate quality education. A very neat, unique place with a great, if low profile reputation. A wonderful campus, with faculty very focused on undergrads (unlike U. of Minn which by its very nature ... Big 10, research, multitude of graduate programs, urban locale, huge undergrad population) and a big time Div I athletic program. A GREAT buy for a private U, and also a GREAT value, imo, especially if a student wants real interactive undergraduate education. Its $billion endowment for a student body of 2,800 is extraordinary and lends itself to lots of resources for undergrads. I've never seen a place doing so much building and renovating at one time either. The facilities are going to be nothing short of spectacular. One small but nice amenity ... ALL campus events, including athletic contests are FREE to undergrads. Tulsa is one of the hidden gems in higher ed, for sure, and if it were in New Jersey rather than OK, well, it would be known as one of the finest in the country. However ... if it were in NJ instead of Tulsa, OK ... it would not have benefit of the oilmen's largesse. A really neat place.</p>
<p>Minnesota undoubtedly has the best known and a good reputation. But it's not due to stellar undergrad education.</p>
<p>As for Wichita, I'm sure it's a fine place. Probably a run of the mill mid major Midwest university. Tons of them that have little or nothing to distinguish them, but no doubt do a very decent job of educating lots of kids at a fair price. </p>
<p>The 3 you've selected are apples, oranges, and pears. All fruit, but sorely different. Pick carefully. The "taste" will be unique to each. Good luck and let us know your decision.</p>
<p>btw, your success or otherwise relative to the Ivies and quality graduate programs will not have a great deal to do with any or none of these 3. You'll make it on your own, unless your "pedigreed" or otherwise connected.</p>
<p>For me, it would be a toss-up between Minnesota and Tulsa. </p>
<p>Minnesota has a really nice location (the Twin Cities are cool), LOTS of options, and the better overall reputation.</p>
<p>Tulsa is smaller and has more of an undergrad focus. </p>
<p>It just depends on what you want. A cool city, lots of options, and a bit of added prestige; or a smaller, more intimate learning environment.</p>
<p>Unless you are a very outgoing and "forceful" personality, Tulsa would give you the best opportunities for making relationships with professors. It is also more undergrad-focused, and grad schools will know and acknowledge that.</p>
<p>However, if you have the guts to really make a name for yourself at UMN, it has it seems a lot more social and academic opportunities in a very exciting part of the country. But you will have to put in that much more effort.</p>
<p>I'd vote Tulsa for overall enjoyability. Grad schools look at how you use the resources of your undergrad years, not really what resources were available. Your personal presence would probably be more meaningful at Tulsa than UMN.</p>
<p>Wow! Thank you guys so much for the advice. Whistle Pig, your comments were amazing!! So how do u know so much about Tulsa? Do you live nearby or are u considering it? </p>
<p>I know that Tulsa would give me the best education, but at WSU I would definitely be at the top of my class. I would stand out much more than I would at Tulsa, where 1 out of every 12 students is a national merit finalist. Should I still go to Tulsa over WSU?</p>
<p>Y'know, you have the ability to stand out at Tulsa. I would say Tulsa, mainly because it does have at least a little more name recognition, which is always nice outside of the grad school world (for summer internships, etc.). I would say Tulsa to challenge yourself; but of course WSU wouldn't be dull or anything.</p>
<p>Still say Tulsa, but I am only one person. Go with your gut! Grad school will work out either way.</p>
<p>I would NOT be quick to assume that because you are a fine student, which I trust you are, that you'll be alone at the top @ Wichita. This is a wrong assumption that many make simply because institutions are deemed less "selective." </p>
<p>I would assume there will be a great many very bright students at all 3 of these institutions. But @ WSU and UM, there will be a great many others also who are less than stellar pinnacles of academe. In fact, in terms of pure #s, I'd speculate, without knowing, there are a great many more National Merit Scholars at WSU than at Tulsa, simply because there are simply alot more of everything ... except $$. </p>
<p>So be very cautious in assuming it will be easier to be a top dawg simply because a U's mission calls for admitting a wider range of academic capabilities among its students. I know MANY very bright people who went to Slippery Rock, which because of its name and traditional mission is often a standing joke among institutions. It's a very fine place in many regards. Conversely, as has been duly and rightly noted, being an honors grad of SRU fails to be recognized in the same manner that being an honors grad @ U. of Chicago does. Or U. of Minn. And rightly so. It's a fair assumption that the latter were more challenging than the former. It's NOT a fair assumption that the latter are any brighter than the former.</p>
<p>I am not assuming that I would be alone at the top. I am simply saying that I would be at the top, and by top I don't mean valedictorian; I mean top 5%. I have taken classes (and not easy ones) at WSU and always had the highest grade in the class. So, while I may not be the number 1 student, I think it is a fair assumption to say that I would be in the top 5 or 10%. I understand that there are many fine students at WSU; my best friend is one of them. I have a friend who just graduated from WSU and is going to Yale next year as a grad. student. Thus, I believe that if I go to WSU, work hard, take advantage of the available opportunities, and am at the top of my class, I should be able to go to a good graduate school. </p>
<p>However, I believe that if I went to Tulsa or UMN that I would find PLENTY of students that are more intelligent and harder working students than me. I think when graduate schools look for students, esp. schools like Harvard and UChicago, they look for students who have made the most of their situation and who have been one of the best students to go through a certain school.
I don't honestly believe that I would be one of the best ever at UMN or Tulsa but that at WSU I would. I think that although I would be going to WSU, if I am at the top of my class, perform extremely well on standardized tests, and make the most of my opportunities, that I should be able to go to most graduate schools.</p>
<p>Do you agree, or am I completely wrong?</p>
<p>That sounds well and good except you are forgetting, at least it seems to me, that the more immediate task is really getting something out of college. If you can say confidently that you will succeed at WSU, then that's not much of a challenge. Grad schools and employers want people who can rise to a level set by others, and perhaps surpass it (that would be "standing out" I suppose). So by going to a school in which you need to make more academic effort but in which you still can succeed, you are making a better statement about your goals and desire for actual academic success and not just being at the top of a curve.</p>
<p>profound!!!!</p>
<p>Even though I believe I could be at the top, I am not saying that I could do so without putting forth a lot of effort.</p>
<p>Oh, definitely you would! But I think that you also understand that you won't be competing with the larger amount of NMS students, which does suggest that Tulsa might have a more challenging student body, and a more enriching academic program that those people gravitate towards.</p>
<p>But that really is my $0.02. (In case you didn't realize this I love to debate... I will never stop lol, so really do just go with what seems like a better time.)</p>
<p>In all honesty, I want to go to WSU because I think that by going to WSU I would have more time to practice violin, play tennis, study religions, and read, things I wish I would have been able to do more often in high school. I also think that research opportunities would be much less competitive than at Tulsa and that I could easily get internships at Koch or Spirit. I already have a great job lined up and if I went to Tulsa or UMN, I don't know how much time I would even have for a job. Really, I would just love to be able to have time for both school and the things I enjoy doing outside of school. I don't think that I would have as much time for the things I enjoy doing outside of school if I went to Tulsa or UMN because I would put such enormous amounts of pressure on myself to do my very best and to get the highest grade. In high school I would rarely get 6 or more hours of sleep because I would always stay up late and do my best. At one point I was drinking so much coffee I was told to stop drinking it so that I wouldn't have a stroke. </p>
<p>I love your responses. Keep 'em comin.</p>
<p>I think it's WSU then. Really. That's what you want, which is the only criterion really.</p>
<p>The social life argument (or personal time) plus the research (which I hadn't really considered) do make it a better option than I had considered it to be.</p>
<p>Thank u so much!!!!! That is just what I wanted to hear. Holly u have been amazing.</p>
<p>:D</p>
<p>that made my day/tomorrow</p>