<p>ctymom - that is truly shocking. I'm so glad the outcome wasn't worse. And I don't think you were necessarily mistaken to extend that generous offer to two freshmen - it was a sensitive response to the problem (though - for the violent young man in question - apparently futile and certainly undeserved). The Samaritan probably appreciated the gesture, at any rate.</p>
<p>My kids become angry when friends pressure them to share homework. They refuse, but have taken some abuse for it.</p>
<p>Is it ethical to cheat when your teacher does not go over any of the things on the test? (Not that I do)</p>
<p>cooljoe the two things are seperate issues
but read this article about the high stakes test in Washington</p>
[quote]
Students must follow lots of rules when taking the Washington Assessment of Student Learning (WASL), as they did this week. They must pack away cellphones. They can't consult dictionaries for most of the test or calculators for some of it.</p>
<p>But when it comes to the writing section, there's one rule they can break: They can make things up. Statistics. Experts. Quotes. Whatever helps make their point.</p>
<p>The state's education office, to the dismay of some teachers, recently announced that making up facts is acceptable when writing nonfiction, persuasive essays on the WASL something that on class assignments would mean a failing grade.</p>
<p>"Statistics in a WASL paper can be made up by you, the writer!" says a PowerPoint presentation that the Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI) created to be used this summer for students who fail the WASL this spring. And, a little later: "On the WASL, you can invent an important expert and have that person say something to bolster your opinion."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You have GOT to be kidding ... please? Who thought that one up?</p>
<p>the same is true on the writing portion of the SATs</p>
<p>There is a website mentioned under the High School Life forum that details popular methods of cheating nowadays for those who are interested. It will be an eye-opener for non-educators, I think.</p>
<p>ctymom "The student who had actually written the paper had allowed the one who copied it to read it "for ideas on how to write the assignment." They both played on the same sports team, and I think the better student really did just want to help."</p>
<p>I always get nervous when the phone rings and its one of kids' classmates asking for "help" on an assignment (especially when its late and the night before its due.). I've had to warn my innocent son not to give "too much help" because I've worried that the caller will just write down what my son says and turn it in.</p>
<p>Yes. It's especially difficult for students who are good at what they're doing and truly want to help as a teacher would but don't know how or where to draw the line. They need you to help them draw it, probably. They aren't all natural teachers (as my son was/is), so they can't easily tell what the caller needs and give a little help and then move on. </p>
<p>I don't know what the answer is. There probably isn't one that fits all situations except to back away from it when it's a last-minute call. Maybe he really needs you to tell him that giving help beyond a degree is as much cheating as taking it. Getting that ruling from you could make it easier for him to be comfortable saying no.</p>
<p><<< My kids become angry when friends pressure them to share homework. They refuse, but have taken some abuse for it. >>></p>
<p>YES! This happens all the time to my kids. They will spend HOURS on their homework and then show up to school and be faced with kids asking to see it (so they can copy it.) My kids try to "hang tight" but it's hard when it's a good friend who asks. </p>
<p>I wish schools collected all homework at the beginning of the day so that the others can't try to copy the homework that is due in later periods.</p>
<p>We were sooooooo frustrated at the recent induction to the NHS. One of the boys that was inducted was caught cheating twice last year. The following day we told the principal that it was an outrage to see that kid up there when the school gave him ISS for cheating last year.</p>
<p>emerald: </p>
<p>That is soooo true. I noticed that even for the AP essay tests, kids are not supposed to be "downgraded" if they get a fact wrong in their essays. The graders are supposed to "over-look" the error and just see if the kid "supported" the "fact" with strong sounding words. (I think this is because they can't expect the graders to be that knowledgeable about every essay question.)</p>
<p>In that case, is it okay to make up facts on College Board essays, or any essays on standardized tests for that matter?</p>
<p>It doesn't stop with students. At a job I had once, the new employees were asked to present something about themselves at a staff meeting. (This was a social services occupation, where things were a bit more touchy-feely than I usually am.) One of my coworkers called me the night before, concerned about what she would say, and we talked for quite awhile. I naively told her what I was going to say -- After all, it was about ME, right? Who would copy? The next day, she volunteered to go first, and spouted off my own personal story as hers, with a few tweaks! It was horrible. Left me with nothing to say, looking like a fool, and so mad I could hardly speak anyway. I still cringe when I remember. She was a master manipulator, and stayed with the job a lot longer than I did.</p>
<p>
<p>I wish schools collected all homework at the beginning of the day so that the others can't try to copy the homework that is due in later periods.
</p>
<p>I'm a student, but I just wanted to share my experience in the exact situation that your kids are in. Like your kids, I would spend hours completing my homework the night before, and come to school and have friends asking for answers .. and considering that the assignment is due that day, they simply wanted the answers and didn't really care about understanding the questions at all. I did help them at first, but after a few assignments, I became increasingly annoyed since I was the one who had lost several hours of sleep in order to finish while I'm pretty sure that they had not finished because they knew that they could get the answers from me or some other person at school the next day. Obviously they could tell I was annoyed, but I guess they thought it was more important that they complete their assignment than care about how frustrated I was. Anyway, I had a close friend who never completed her homework and was always asking for answers, and after much consideration (and also due to a partner report that I had pulled an almost all-nighter trying to complete because things came up and I had to complete most of her part.. and the only portion that she had to do, she turned in late so we got marked down!) I couldn't take it anymore and I confronted her about it. I told her exactly how frustrated and annoyed I was and had been for the past months.. and this was one of the best decisions I had ever made :) She was completely understanding and apologetic and also she had been unaware of just HOW annoyed I had been.. and not only did this not destroy our friendship, it only made it stronger. I truly admired how she reacted to the confrontation and now I think we have a greater respect for each other. And even better, I think she may have told (although I'm still not sure) our other friends how I felt because after that, no one came bugging me for answers anymore! Anyway my point is that your kids' good friends are truly good friends, they should hopefully be as understanding and it may even help their friendship.</p>
<p>Good for you, aznsushi. And good for your friend.</p>
<p>The fact that she didn't realize that you were so unhappy is kind of sad since it points up how normal everyone considers that behavior, but the outcome in your situation makes a bit of difference in the overall situation. It seems you have good friends!</p>
<p>please see my new thread asking about cheating deterents, honor codes, etc.</p>
<p>Trying to pick everyone's brain for some new and thoughtful idea on how to combat cheating, protect kids who "tell," and develop an effective, meaningful honor code.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>I just found this thread and decided to post this here - seems appropriate.
I am looking for a link to a Calvin and Hobbes comic that deals with the moral dilemma of cheating and ethics. In it, Calvin remarks that people in the real world care more about success, not principles ... which is most likely why the world is in such a mess. </p>
<p>Appalled by the pervasive cheating culture, one of the teacher's at my children's school posted it and handed out copies to all the students. </p>
<p>Would anyone have a link to it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
From the this article, the kids who cheat don't consider it cheating, because they say everyone does it, so it's okay. They don't seem to hold themselves accountable.
[/quote]
Before we get on the case of students too much ... rephrase this quote for adults who cheat on their taxes and you get a very similar results ... lots of people do it and those that do pretty much believe everyone else does also. It's not just the kids; it's all of our society.</p>