<p>Because the schools associated with the Ivy league have long historical associations with political and WASP socio-economic elites of the US and other nations…in most cases…predating the founding of the US itself. Due to this cachet and its association with alumni networks perceived to be linked with money, power, and prestige…the Ivies have a powerful seductive pull on many parents and college-bound kids. </p>
<p>While other universities and LACs may have comparable or arguably better academics, few of them have the cachet and/or the perceived associations with power, wealth, and prestige associated with the Ivies. Incidentally, their lower levels of association with those factors is actually a draw for some students from what I’ve observed at my LAC and several other similar LACs/universities.</p>
<p>I don’t get this overarching Ivy Hate I see on this site, especially among the parents. There are 8 Ivy institutions and 8 non-Ivy institutions in the USNWR top 16 National U’s but somehow Ivy attracts all the bashing.</p>
<p>What am I missing? </p>
<p>Full disclosure - both my daughters went to Ivy schools but not from pushing by me. In fact I offered each of them the inducement (aka “bribe”) of buying them a car if they chose UC or other reduced-cost option. But both chose Ivy + No Car over Berkeley or UCLA + Car. Both are very happy with the choices they made.</p>
<p>My son look at top schools. Of his final 7 schools, 3 were Ivies - Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell. The non-Ivies included Hopkins, Wash U, Emory and UVA. He probably had a good shot at all of the Invies if he applied ED. He chose Wash U over Brown in the end. Applied ED to Wash U and was accepted.</p>
<p>Very few people in the Northeast even know where Wash U is. It doesn’t have the rep anywhere near the Ivies. It is was definitely the right choice for him. We visited all of the schools for 1+ days. He will be happy. </p>
<p>The question for some people is how much weight does a degree from an Ivy carry.</p>
<p>As a side note: I do question the comment about athletes at Ivies. They may not officially get athletic scholarships but if you don’t think they are admitted with much lower transcripts etc. you are fooling yourself. Two friends of mine went to Brown and Yale to play hockey. The both got significant “need based” aid when they really didn’t need it.</p>
<p>Don’t look at me; I don’t bash them! They are all very fine schools and I would have been pleased to have had my children attend any of them, if they had been so inclined. Outside of a relative handful of fields, however, I don’t see much distinction in the longer-term bigger picture in terms of attending one of those particular 8 versus other top colleges. That’s all. That doesn’t make them not fine colleges in the least. </p>
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<p>I think what you’re getting at here gets to social prestige versus academic prestige. For example, I think both my kids’ schools, while fine institutions, are different in this regard. One of them has (IMO) more social prestige linked back to the old-money WASP gig and the other has more academic prestige and “better” stats. But, I think it winds up being six of one and half a dozen of the other.</p>
<p>Give me a break! Where I live, in the Northeast, EVERYBODY knows where WashU is . . . because their children go there when they don’t get into their parents’ Ivy colleges. It is very, very popular.</p>
<p>Anyway, I don’t think it’s correct that the “Ivy love” here is as pure and thoughtless as some of the posters represent. I never read anyone pooh-poohing Stanford or MIT because they are non-Ivies, and Duke gets a lot of love, too. Meanwhile, it’s not at all uncommon to read really ignorant negative comments people make about Cornell, even if they love the Ivies in general. “Ivies” is just shorthand for hyper-selective private universities.</p>
<p>Perhaps I’m just exceptionally clueless, but until a couple years ago, I had no idea how highly WashU was regarded, and I live in an adjoining state. OTOH, I was very familiar with the reputation of the Ivies, both individually and as a group. Of course, I grew up in the East, so that may be part of the reason.</p>
<p>Annasdad, I think those of us who grew up in the east and then moved to the midwest have very different perspectives compared to those who grew up here in the midwest :-). I know I came to the midwest thinking, “State school, isn’t that where the average kids go?” and had to be hit over the head understanding that there are many, many bright kids out here who simply wouldn’t ever see a need to go beyond (say) U of Illinois - and in fact they are * right,* they can get anywhere they need to from that school. But by the same token, there are many schools that were on my radar screen, particularly east coast LAC’s, that elicit “huhs?” out here, including where my D currently is. </p>
<p>JHS - I don’t know. Sometimes there are posts where you can tell that the person is using Ivies as a shorthand for very elite private u’s, and sometimes there are posts where you can tell that the person explicitly elevates those 8 schools to quasi-godlike status over similar private u’s.</p>
<p>Really? I am shocked. D2 crossed out Brown and Williams after visiting, but would go to Yale if she had to. Her Asian counselor said to her, “No respectable Asian would go to Brown.” He went on a bit more about the name “Brown.”</p>
<p>My D got into an Ivy and an honors program at a top state flagship. We went to the honors acceptance seminar at the flagship and listened as one honors senior after another told about the amazing things they had done while at the flagship. Then one prospective student asked what schools they had turned down to go to the flagship and the only school mentioned that I consider high caliber was Duke. No one on the panel of about 20 had turned down HYPSM or other ivies. D picked ivy because that’s where she figured her intellectual peers would be going, and we were fortunate enough to be able to sacrifice to afford our EFC. (Besides, the sheer beauty of the ivy campus blew her away.)</p>
<p>That’s not the case at my NYC specialized high school. UW was highly regarded. </p>
<p>Main issues were high admissions hurdles for OOS which meant kids who were admitted there tended to go off to more prestigious OOS publics or private LACs/universities with better FA. Back in my day…it was actually much harder to get into UW than UMich or several LACs listed in top LACs. </p>
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<p>Heck no. In fact, MIT was given more respect than the Ivies and Stanford and Duke were regarded on par with HYP…especially considering Duke was ranked #5 when I was applying to college. One classmate was bitter about being rejected by Duke even though he was accepted to Cornell on a substantial scholarship. </p>
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<p>Yep…that was common among HS classmates who got into perceived more prestigious universities…including non-Ivies like Duke. Then again, considering around 1/6 of my graduating class was accepted to Cornell Engineering/A & S, there was some contempt among those at the higher echelons of the top 1/3 of my class. </p>
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<p>That’s far more reasonable than what prevailed at my HS. There, going to SUNY was considered a fallback for those at the middle-bottom of the class who failed to get into more prestigious private or OOS public colleges, especially considering even C-level students were able to gain admission to great OOS publics like UWisconsin Madison with money. </p>
<p>With the possible exception of Sophie Davis, Brooklyn Honors, Baruch, and Hunter Honors, no one wanted to end up at a CUNY school if they could help it. Granted…this was during a period when open admission in 4 year colleges was still an option and before the city and CUNY administration started their initiatives to revamp CUNY from its doldrums which started with the institution of that very admissions policy in the late '60s.</p>
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<p>Wonder if that had anything to do with Brown being commonly perceived as the most politically/socially/hippie liberal of the Ivies? Would he/she advise his/her Asian clients the same thing regarding Oberlin and to tell them to run for the hills if they happen to encounter any of its graduates? :D</p>
<p>I most recently worked as a college counselor at an uber competitive prep school where both parents and kids were very ambitious people. I think parents today, and thus many of their children, are increasingly afraid of their children not doing as well as they did.</p>
<p>Parents in business especially talk about the global competition, reduced jobs and opportunities and the need to be competitive. I rarely heard anything of the kind just 10 years ago, but it was deafening by last year. Their answer? The biggest name school possible. These were American, Asian and European parents all singing the same song: an ivy degree would mean future security.</p>
<p>In years past I had lots of individual ivy interest, but also parents and kids excited by what LACs had to offer. That lessened to a degree I never could have imagined a decade ago. I do wonder what will happen to the average LAC in 10 more years.</p>
<p>Oldfort- Your D’s Asian counselor sounds not too intelligent. Hope you weren’t paying for those services!</p>
<p>But I get it, because two of my D’s teachers sniffed at the thought of her potentially accepting the acceptance offer from Cornell rather than the offers from Brown/Columbia. Bigotry is everywhere. (-:</p>
<p>Even though I know Columbia reached #4 on USNWR recently, those teachers’ reactions are still odd to me. </p>
<p>Back when I was in high school, Columbia College was only marginally more prestigious than Cornell A & S and with engineering…it was no contest…Cornell killed it. </p>
<p>Also, had a friend who turned down Columbia College for Cornell A & S because she felt the latter had a stronger pre-med program and she didn’t want the humanities-oriented Core Columbia had.</p>
<p>Camathmom’s kid goes to Brown, apology here for hitting a nerve. Since D1 graduated from a lower ranking Ivy, I have grown a very thick skin on CC.</p>
<p>^ Yes, absolutely, there are good reasons to choose each individual Ivy or other school. It all depends upon who YOU are. That is the point that I am trying to make. Counselors and teachers may have their own bigotry/preference for colleges based on their own backgrounds, but it really doesn’t affect which school is best for YOU. Just so you know, my D’s teacher’s bigotry stems from their background in liberal arts education. In their minds, Cornell is pre-professional. Which doesn’t mean that Cornell is not the ideal school for one of their students. Just as oldfort’s D’s counselor apparently has some racial prejudice against Brown, which doesn’t mean it isn’t the right school for one of his/her students.</p>
Her Asian counselor said to her, “No respectable Asian would go to Brown.” He went on a bit more about the name “Brown.”</p>