Why do you want to go to an Ivy League school?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I feel like I have seen so many kids on here posting about wanting to go to the Ivy League for majors that the Ivy League isn't even known for. For example, I have seen Chance Me's for people who want to be communications majors. So why is every single Ivy League on your list instead of schools like UT- Austin, Indiana, Emerson, or USC?</p>

<p>Does the name really mean that much to you? </p>

<p>I just find it hard to believe that someone could reasonably have each ivy, MIT, and Stanford on their list. Each school is very different, so to think someone could genuinely want to go to ALL of them seems superficial, no?</p>

<p>Please chime in because this genuinely mind boggles me at times.</p>

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<p>Answering as a parent with kids who got into Ivys and other elite schools:</p>

<p>Applying to all of them just makes no sense, except for one reason: for the people who have this need to apply to all of them, it is the prestige, which is something the schools all share. Therefore, in a sense, there is consistency, but not fit-wise or even education-wise. Fit is of little concern for such applicants. </p>

<p>You may call prestige superficial, but you would be surprised that is what many people hang there lives on. If it works for them, more power to them. I, for one, do not get it and I explained that to my kids when they were choosing colleges, and for life in general. </p>

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<p>They give great aid without loans to low income families. </p>

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<p>^^ But that is a small segment of the population that applies. I think the OP is talking about the vast majority of applicants.</p>

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<p>I’m just going to leave this here <a href=“Why Did I Say "Yes" to Speak Here? | Malcolm Gladwell | Google Zeitgeist - YouTube”>Why Did I Say "Yes" to Speak Here? | Malcolm Gladwell | Google Zeitgeist - YouTube;

<p>Also, more personal reasons: better financial aid (not only for internationals, but also for lower-income/middle-class domestic applicants), opportunities/networking and more funding for research, want to be in an intensely academic setting, etc. Also, even though the students at these schools may be just as successful as students from other universities (see video), not only grad schools to some degree but mainly employers don’t view things that way.</p>

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<p>I also wonder if a lot of it is bc kids view the world through their local little prism vs. nationally. They compare themselves to their own high school and other students they see locally and automatically assume that they are the top gun and while they give the token response that they know they aren’t a shoo-in, I do not think they actually believe it. I think they know they are they are good and therefore of course they are going to be accepted to at least one of them</p>

<p>I am reminded of a certain poster that seemed convinced b/c no on in her school was allowed to take more than 2 APs per yr that kids that were taking more weren’t really completing strong courses. And that her academic experience was far superior to other students (though it was obvious to us with really strong students that based on her test scores and class list that her education was completely avg.)</p>

<p>I think kids that have competed in academic activities nationally probably have a far more realistic understanding of the other talented kids out there and realize that no matter how good they are, the likelihood is that there are a lot of kids that blow them away. Someone who is top in their state and then goes to a national event and places 100-200th nationally has had an eye opening experience. And that is just amg the really top talent. There are all the kids in each of those states taht didn’t make it to the national level bc the kids they were competing against were just taht good and in they had lived in another state, they would have been #1 and on and on.</p>

<p>I’m sure these top kids locally are constantly being told they deserve a prestigious school/education b/c they are superior. It is like a kid posting that they plan on going to GT on the presidential scholarship. That is incredibly far from posting that they can’t afford GT and would love to go so they applied for the presidential but know it is an incredibly long shot and they are really focusing on other schools. When the kids that were accepted to GT early admission had stats

they need to recognize that was 5000 kids, so there must have been a significant number whose stats were greater. With only 50 scholarships, being awarded one of them is 1%. That is tougher than admission to the most select schools.</p>

<p>I think being naive is a really large part of it.</p>

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<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeek‌ That is very closely related to the Malcolm Gladwell video I posted, except applies the idea to high school, rather than college; I agree with you. “Relative position matters more than absolute position.”</p>

<p>I’m also applying to/have applied to Ivies in the past as well as other top LACs, so, yes, I am a complete hypocrite, before anyone points it out for me. :P</p>

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<p>Repeating mistanervous and LAMuniv: Financial aid! You say that most aren’t looking for the money, but in my area, that is very much on everyone’s mind.</p>

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<p>@LAMuniv‌ </p>

<p>Thank you for the link. I am obviously in the group that agrees with him, but I think most people dont. But those stats reveal a lot.</p>

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<p>I think it is many things: culture, recognition, financial. Financial aid is excellent at these schools, and for some students, the cost of attendance may be a significant advantage.</p>

<p>In some fields it is beneficial to have the national and international name recognition of a top school. It is also a recognizable brand- if someone has a degree from a top college, they were, by inference, a top student in their high school and probably college as well. It’s impressive. It is also a top notch education. </p>

<p>For some it is a combination of family culture and not looking beyond what is known. If a grandparent attended an Ivy, then that sets the expectation for the rest of the family, but as time goes on, those Ivy’s are more competitive. Statistically, the grandchildren and great grandchildren will not get accepted, and that can be a big disappointment. </p>

<p>For some it is a result of the surrounding culture they grew up in- if everyone in their family and all their peers aim at Ivy’s, they will too. For some it’s the American Dream- a first generation student or a student from a low income family achieving something that is fantastic. </p>

<p>While the Ivy’s are undoubtedly great opportunities, where we go wrong is assuming that others are not. Here is where I join Mom2aphysicsgeek, and Gladwell in my belief that a top education, and top students, exist in many places outside the Ivy’s. Parents aren’t always objective about their own kids, and a top student at a school and his family might believe he is the smartest kid out there, but there are a lot of them- more than there are places for in the top schools. Recent economic times have made it hard for that middle ground- not qualifying for much FA, yet the cost of private college out of reach- to pay for an Ivy. Those students will seek alternatives. </p>

<p>My personal opinion is to match the college to the student. How much importance going to an Ivy is depends on the individual circumstances of the student and family. However, with the selectivity so high, every student needs to be looking at alternatives, and there are many. The fallacy is to think that all of them are inferior, but that’s human nature. </p>

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<p>I get the financial aid point, but if that is the case, why don’t a lot of these kids have state schools on their lists? I doubt that all of these students are applying to every Ivy League school because they are affordable. I think this is on a broader spectrum. I’m kinda referring to the kids who won’t even apply to a state school when it may in fact have better teachers in a certain subject just to say they went to an Ivy League.</p>

<p>In my opinion, you can go to any college and be successful. It’s what you make of the experience and what opportunities you choose to take advantage of. You can get a degree from an elite school and never get actual experience in that job field OR you can go to a less prestigious school and do an internship and become more knowledgeable than the person who only cared about the name. I know having that Ivy League name on your resume will help, but I think after a while you can’t just rely on that to get you places in life.</p>

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<p>Every Ivy League college offers a world-class education. They all have gorgeous facilities and sufficient financial resources to meet the needs of every student they want. Saying that, I have trouble understanding why a student would apply to both Columbia and Dartmouth. They are worlds apart, socially and culturally. I have a friend who went to graduate school at Columbia after Dartmouth, but that’s a little different. Would you prefer to spend a Saturday snowboarding or museum-hopping? I think that people become fixated on the “brand.” My husband and I both graduated from an Ivy League university, and we are deadbeats. We know people who have been enormously successful after attending less prestigious colleges. Think of shopping for a car: you might be smitten with the idea of buying a Rolls-Royce or Ferrari, but you will have to start looking at less expensive vehicles if the only way you can afford an exotic brand is by winning the PowerBall lottery. I think all CC regulars grow fatigued from all the posts from students (and parents) saying that they “plan” to raise their SATs from 1800 to 2200+ the next time around, and asking whether they’ll get into Ivy League colleges if they do. I have even less patience with the posts exhorting those students to aim for 2300. We’d all love the Rolls-Royce, but we need to accept that plenty of other cars will satisfy our needs just as well. The kid who dreams of Harvard, but has no chance, should be encouraged to look at Pitt, DePaul and Temp(great urban locations). </p>

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<p>It’s not “I can be successful no matter where I go” its the belief that “I can be more successful if I go to an ivy.” For a lot of people it isn’t just that they want to make the most money, some people like being part of things that are exclusive and rare. It’s like telling a coin collector that you should value the common penny on the street the same as the double dye 1969 penny, sure you might be able to find intrinsic value in each but happiness is extrinsic as well. It’s also an opportunity that you will never get again (undergrad college experience) in your lifetime.</p>

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<p>The Ivys are great. World class education, fantastic peer group. It is worth aspiring to them. Applying to ALL of them? No, that doesn’t make sense to me, ether, because they are different. I am sure some kids would be adaptable enough to be happy at any Ivy, but not all. </p>

<p>OP, like you I am confused by the kid who wants to study communications or business and applies to certain Ivies that don’t have that major. For some kids, an Ivy is the wrong choice, even if he gets in there. </p>

<p>We have a strong state school here. The last few years there has been a good number of kids who have been accepted to Ives but have chosen the state school. IDKY they applied to the Ivies. To see if they would be accepted? So for ego? Or did they really intend to go until their folks saw how much it would cost? </p>

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<p>Why won’t these students apply to a state school?</p>

<p>The “talk” has a huge influence on how a student perceives a college. We have a natural “oh wow- good for you” response to a student getting accepted at a top school. I was on a college tour with my child, at a well liked state college that had a program my child was sincerely interested in. Another mother on the tour made it very clear that this was a last resort option, and that her child wanted better. All this went on in earshot of my child. </p>

<p>High school students are young, and none of them really know much about college in general. Their self esteem isn’t well developed. They want to be admired by their peers. They care about what clothes they wear, what they look like, and they want what their friends have. What their peers say has influence, and although they might not admit it, they also care what adults think and say too. </p>

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<p>And so do many, many other colleges maybe 100s of them. As for prestige it means little if you are a jerk or mean or can’t get along with people or can’t show up on time. Doing well in the classroom does not always translate to doing well in life. In any case, much hiring is local done by people who graduated from the same state schools that the applicants are coming from. In some cases prestige may count on your first job and maybe in certain fields like Investment Banking, but as a rule the only thing that really counts is if you can do the job. </p>

<p>I speak from a 40-year career as an investigator, and having the unenviable opportunity of seeing people behaving like nincompoops. Being a dumb a… in life is totally unrelated to where you went to school.</p>

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<p>I know for my parents, they weren’t going to pay $50k+ for me to go to a state school when I have a decent one in-state for $20k. (Maryland) We don’t think the value is there compared to a top private. So the only state schools I considered are ones that give significant merit aid to make the price similar…which eliminates all of the most selective ones.</p>

<p>However, they will pay $60k for a top private school. I’m going to a private school (non-Ivy, but close) for the small classes, top professors who care about the students, specialized major program, access to more opportunities, smaller campus, to be with academic peers…the list goes on. Having that name on my resume will also be a plus. </p>

<p>I think money is the biggest factor. A lot of people are in the “no-aid but can’t afford” bracket when it comes to private schools, so in state flagship is really the only option. A lot of my friends only applied to the flagship and an in state safety because top private schools aren’t even an option. My dad went to a state school… it was the only school he applied to. He’s done well which allows me to apply to lots of schools and have my pick of where to go. </p>

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You can get all of these things at a state school though. In fact, the schools that are highest on the list for where jobs recruit from are all state schools</p>

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<p>What most state flagships don’t have:
-A large per person endowment which allows funding for a variety of projects.
-A geographically diverse student body. At virtually every top non LAC students come from all over the US and often all over the world. At the Southern Ivy which I attended, my friends came from a huge variety of states and countries. At the average public flagship I transferred to, my friends mostly came from either Texas or Oklahoma. Many were reluctant to leave their home state, and had a much more provincial world view than the students I encountered at my previous private.
-High expectations across the board. To put it bluntly, the humanities courses at my public flagship are much much easier than those of my previous private school. Sure the professors are likely equally as qualified, but they seem to calibrate their expectations to that of the average student. The average student at a top private is academically stronger than the average student at a middle ranked state school.
-A low student to faculty ratio with far fewer adjuncts teaching courses. </p>

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<p>I sometimes get flak for saying this, but imo, most of these kids with “Ivy fever” know very little about what these schools offer them, beyond prestige and maybe a future interview for a banking career. They don’t do the research and legwork. They don’t know what these schools look for- not because it’s so mysterious, but because they don’t dig in to what IS said, implied or given by example, in the college websites or other resources. </p>

<p>What they rest on is, as Mom2aphysicsgeek points out, is being top dawg in their own hs context. As if that’s all adcoms look for. And then there are the kids who are not top dawg and not qualified for the strenuous academic challenges, not destined to thrive at a tippy top- but who want to dream. As if lightning is going to strike.</p>

<p>Frustrating. </p>