<p>My father was a professor at an Ivy, I grew up in an Ivy town hanging out on the Ivy campus, >90% of my HS friends attended an Ivy with a significant mutual tuition discount while the hapless <10% attended Williams and MIT. I chose to attend a non-Ivy peer institution. </p>
<p>If I look at my HS and college friends, they have all largely done well. One group no better than the other. My Ivy friends and acquaintances are not distinguishable from my non Ivy friends and acquaintances in terms of life accomplishments. I will add none of them are on Wall St, IB, politics, or high powered lawyering, and are largely in academia or professional fields.</p>
<p>When DS was applying to colleges, he muttered something about 'snobbish' and declined to apply to any Ivy... I didn't try to talk him out of it as I thought there were plenty of other mighty fine institutions to attend.</p>
<p>So, I don't get this overarching Ivy Love I see on this site. There are 8 Ivy institutions and 8 non-Ivy institutions in the USNWR top 16 National U's but somehow Ivy rules them all.</p>
<p>Branding. The majority of the members of this site are 16-17 yo kids after all.</p>
<p>On a practical point, FA, as S is the only other college with comparable a FA policy to HYP.</p>
<p>Note, I’m not trying to justify the mindset, I don’t know how many times I’ve reminded members that they’re talking about an athletic conference. But I also don’t see it as being different from so many things that people desire based on the cachet, prestige, cool or whatever factor they perceive that it has.</p>
<p>The people shooting for what they perceive as best are going to do the most research and posting. Top rated schools are not for everyone. Not all top schools are Ivies. My son turned down Ivies for Caltech, but Caltech is rated number one by TimesOnline. He wouldn’t have gone to any of them if they weren’t right for him though. Some kids want a high level of challenge and perceive that they will get it at those schools. It also helps to have that on your resume. For my son, it was all about fit, though. He had no interest in certain Ivies.</p>
<p>It’s all about perception. People perceive that a better level of opportunities will be bestowed upon the the recipient of an Ivy league education. Sometimes that’s true, sometimes it’s not (at least that is my real life experience.) My son’s hs chemistry teacher graduated from Harvard. I turned down an applicant from Columbia University last year in favor of someone who attended a tier 3 college in our state. I currently know 3 kids who graduated from top 15 schools last May who still haven’t found jobs. These are pretty much average people doing average things just like most other college graduates. </p>
<p>I do agree there is a very limited number of fields (Wall Street, of course) where it is harder to get in without an Ivy League education but not impossible, I know a kid who graduated from a state university extension campus and got a job on Wall Street right out of college. When there’s a will, there’s usually a way.</p>
<p>glad i did it that way and not the reverse. Had a scholarship at UCSB as an in-state resident and it was all my parents could afford when adding in other incidentals. Worked hard and then earned a partial scholarship/grad. assistant stipend to Harvard. At the undergraduate level it was definitely more a case of how much effort I wanted to put into my education. All the resources and great courses and research opportunities were available. Really do not think I would have gotten a better education at an Ivy as an undergrad. Harvard was great for grad school, but my fondest memories are still those of my time at UCSB.</p>
<p>^I think most people’s fondest memories are of college not grad school. Though I have to admit my fondest memories are of high school (really close knit friends at a girls school) and the years immediately after grad school where I joined my then boyfriend now husband at Caltech. I got all the fun of being in Pasadena, lived with a great group of grad students, and since I had a real job had no money worries. </p>
<p>I’m of the school that the Ivy’s are a great fit for some, not so much for others. I liked Harvard, would have been better off at Yale, and wish sometimes I’d blown off the academic part of me and gone to RISD. (If I had I’m sure I’d just have different regrets today. ) I made my oldest apply to Harvard, and he admitted he could be happy there, but we all thought he made the right decision as a computer scientist to go to Carnegie Mellon. </p>
<p>What I find tiresome about this site is that there is very little inbetween. People seem to be rabidly pro or anti Ivy. And that goes in spades for Harvard (and Princeton) less so for Yale.</p>
<p>Well… I don’t get the need to bash the Ivies that some of the posters on this board seem to feel the need to engage in.</p>
<p>Lots of people who use the word “Ivies” on this board just mean top private colleges. Heck, I suspect that many of the posters who say “Ivies” can not name the 8 Ivies.</p>
<p>But are there things about the Ivies I like? Yes, I like the fact that they don’t give athletic scholarships. (That includes the fact that student who decide they can’t handle the sport and the demands of classes can quit and it doesn’t affect aid.) I like the fact that the sports seasons are shorter and there are strict limits on the amount of practice.I like the fact that the students major in real subjects and take the same tests as every one else. I like the fact that students who excel in other realms get as much recognition as athletes. I like the fact that financial aid is based on need. I like the fact that you can’t pay more to get a better dorm room–at least at those I’m most familiar with. (Rooms are assigned by a lottery.) </p>
<p>I like the fact that there are a gazillion ECs going on and most are run entirely by students. I like the fact that there are very, very few students who aren’t actively involved in something. I like that the ECs aren’t quasi-professional. The campus papers are put out by students who don’t get course credit for doing it and are expected to go to classes too. There’s no faculty adviser. The administration doesn’t vet the news.</p>
<p>The marching band is made up of kids who have a great time and have limited time to practice. The student orchestras are amazing and there are lots of small performance groups. There are a zillion dramatic productions on campus and many of the participants aren’t theatre majors. Again, nobody gets course credit for writing, producing or starring in a show. I like the fact that community service is vibrant at all of the Ivies I’m familiar with. At those I am most familiar with, at least half the students are involved in community service on a regular basis. </p>
<p>I like the fact that classes are often taught by the leading experts in their fields. I like the fact that most of the profs love teaching and are enthusiastic about interacting with undergrads. </p>
<p>I like the fact that there are a gazillion “special funds” which allow students to do all sort of amazing things. </p>
<p>All 8 of the Ivies are distinctive colleges. Plenty of kids who are happy at Dartmouth would be miserable at Columbia. I do think it’s more than a little odd when kids apply to all 8 just because they are Ivies. </p>
<p>But Ivy “love” on this board? The OP must be reading a different board than I am. You’re FAR more likely to get bashed if you DARE to say anything negative about UChicago or Smith on this board than you are if you say anything negative about the Ivies.</p>
<p>Your statement does not in any way refute the OP’s premise. Many individuals are obsessed with attending an Ivy, both on CC and in real life. (FWIW, DW and I are Ivy grads and D1 is at an Ivy.) The schools themselves have much to offer, as you note. But not every Ivy is a good fit for everyone, and this obsession with Ivys causes many to attend a school that is not the best fit.</p>
<p>jonri hit the nail on the head. If you had told me at the beginning of my DS’s junior year that he’d have an ivy on his college list I would have said “no way”. It just wasn’t in his head or heart. He chose one ivy to apply to after receiving a mailing (college junk mail I like to call it). He went to the website to research the school and really liked what he saw. Loved his visit, and put it on his list. I tried to brace him for the rejection since his public HS hadn’t sent any kids to HYPS in over 7 hears.</p>
<p>He was amazed and over the moon when he was accepted. He still visited his top three choices (two in-state public, one ivy) before making his final decision. He chose all his schools based on fit for many reasons.</p>
<p>I too don’t understand students who apply to “all the ivies”. They are so different and I agree with Coase that they are so enamored with the title that they may choose a school for the name not the fit.</p>
<p>As parents we encouraged our DS to apply to schools with the programs he wanted, the size he wanted and the atmosphere he was looking for. He did that and is happy with his choice. He only applied to the one ivy, several privates and several publics. </p>
<p>This site attracts very high achieving students and so many of them seem to think that the schools that accept them and those they choose to attend define them. Hopefully as they mature they will discover that it is what they choose to do with their achievements that will define them, not the name of the school!</p>
<p>But the whole point is … why wasn’t he just thinking of whatever that school was in the context of “it’s one of the top schools, and it interests me for xyz reasons”? I don’t get why, if you made a list of however many top schools that interested you, why it would matter one bit or why you would single out the presence of an Ivy as some kind of relevant subgroup.</p>
<p>Within the world of top universities, calling out the Ivy-ness of them seems about as irrelevant as calling out the number of syllables in their names. Yes, it’s a descriptor, but it’s a descriptor that doesn’t mean much of anything. Let’s say I was applying to eight top 20 schools for the sake of argument. “Three of them are Ivies” is about as meaningless of a grouping as “Three of them have one-syllable names” (Yale, Duke, Brown). If you took off the Ivy designation, why would you ever lump some of those schools together?</p>
I think there are a HUGE number of internationals also on CC. And to many who aren’t familiar with the multitude of colleges that are available in this country, it’s ivy or nothing.</p>
<p>Actually the truth is many international students have options at home, therefore unless they get into top colleges in the US they would rather stay home. At least, that’s the case with D2’s friends.</p>
<p>My older son started college in 05 before the more middle class financial initiatives that some of the Ivy League schools have started. We are in Virginia and the only other schools that son had any interest in at the time,other than UVa instate, were Duke and Princeton. Princeton showed some athletic interest but obviously no money involved. Son toured UVa and loved it. When I asked him then, why he even had interest in Princeton, he(as a 17 year old) said “because it’s Princeton.” That was it. He literally knew nothing about Princeton except that it was an Ivy (and we have Ivy grads in the family). Not good enough reason for him or us to pay thousands more. He liked the idea of Duke basketball too. He applied ED to UVa and loved it.</p>
) I made my oldest apply to Harvard, and he admitted he could be happy there, but we all thought he made the right decision as a computer scientist to go to Carnegie Mellon. </p>