I got rejected from 15 out of the 16 schools I applied to

Applying to College Admission Stories
,
104

This expectation is what I find interesting. If this kid had the application which gained an acceptance to 3 of the most difficult schools to get into in the world, you don’t think the AOs at case western could see that the likelihood of that student going to their school was remote? Should they give the WL just to be nice? I think AOs are pretty adept at sniffing out those students.

As an example, a good friend’s S applied to Yale and Lehigh among others. He was accepted to Yale and was miffed that Lehigh rejected him. Why? If Lehigh had accepted him would he have attended instead of going to Yale? Of course not. It’s as if these kids just want to have bragging rights of getting in everywhere they applied to stroke their egos or validate their self worth. Lehigh wants to accept kids that will actually attend. Yield matters to colleges.

The OP asked a similar question: I was accepted by a great school but why didn’t all those other schools not want me too? There were so many factors besides just stats: international status, FA requirements, fit with the school, essays, recommendations…they all matter. I agree St. Olaf’s result is a bit baffling but perhaps it was the FA piece? Unfortunately colleges don’t provide feedback with their denials and waitlists. Most people tend to just focus on stats because it’s numerical and easy to compare, but that’s not the US college application system.

You also can’t compare the admissions environment that exists today with that of the 1980s and 1990s. More applicants and significantly different mission statements and acceptance criteria.

5 Likes
105

I know you aren’t the water-carrier (this is getting hilarioursly effete on my end). You are correct that these degrees carry weight, sometimes even when they shouldn’t. We are not as bad as France though, so we can all take comfort in that. I think roles in the federal judiciary are more defined by your law school than your undergrad, and even that seems to be staring to crack.

I think he wound the poster wound up with a very good school, whether that be a matter of luck or forethought. I do think in another year (like last year) he might have done better.

106

Lehigh, heh. Back in prehistoric times, I was accepted to Lehigh without even trying. It was expensive and I went to Penn State. I applied to MIT and was blissfully unaware of how unlikely that was going to be.

1 Like
107

Ok. In this situation specifically. Case-Western was 100% going for yield protection based on certain assumptions that made about the candidtate strengths and special talents. But in this particular year they might have been wrong about that child landing higher. She might well not have. I certianly know cases that are less dramatic from this year where kids were wait-listed at schools that should have been safties for them as welll as matches as well as reaches. So, I am pointing out that colleges are making judgments not solely based on the strength on “is this the strongest candidate” or even “did this candidate express interest” but rather based on protective algorithms involving yield bc yield is the thing that keeps them their jobs. As a result, I posit that sometimes even in normal year they miss the mark and this year especially.

1 Like
108

Fortunately, lots of colleges do not care how high their yield is. If every college rejected overqualified applicants because they are less likely to matriculate, then no college could be an actual safety.

It does mean that applicants looking for safeties need to know that colleges that want to keep their yield high or consider “level of applicant’s interest” cannot be used as safeties (because they do not want to be used as safeties).

4 Likes
109

I am not sure how to address the yield question. (I would count myself lucky if it had even been a problem for my son.) Suppose Case-Western is really a first choice for a student who could get in elsewhere. Maybe it’s possible for the student to convey this, though I’m not sure how, e.g. in their application essay.

In your example, it seems entirely hypothetical. A student who gets into three Ivy League schools and didn’t want to go to Case-Western isn’t going to care, so their yield algorithm is working as intended. But in some year where it’s just a little bit tougher than expected and Case-Western miscalculates, then the student could be left out. It’s their loss, because they probably want to have the student who was just so close to getting into Harvard.

One idea would be to apply to enough schools at this tier to reduce the chance they all make the same mistake.

I don’t work in an admissions office and have no idea how they would respond. I am skeptical that a student who would get into Harvard, Yale, and Princeton in a normal year will ever be left without options even in a difficult year. However, this situation could be mitigated by schools being more forthcoming about rejections that are intended to protect yield.

110

CWRU has binding ED application available, so an overqualified student who has CWRU as the first choice can apply ED there to show the highest possible level of interest there.

The applicant who looked like a possible admit to HYP could still get rejected by all three. If that applicant’s “safeties” were yield-protecting schools (as opposed to those with automatic admission for stats that the applicant has), the applicant could end up with no admissions. Of course, that does not mean the applicant will have no options, since the option of starting at a community college and transferring to a four year school later still exists.

2 Likes
111

I guess if I were just spit-balling, I would say a match sytem like that used for medical residencies and also for Unviversities in UK (at least up to the interview) might be a good way to avoid that. Applying to a ton of schools probably does mitigate the issue for the applicant but reinforces the problem for the colleges. That is exactly what happened this year: not many more applicants but a huge jump in aplications. I guess I think the important thing to remember is no matter what they say, these colleges do treat this as a busines, even if it’s only the business of keeping their job at Harvard or what have you. So they will not always be truthful about details like the way large number of defferred students will effect admission rates or even whether demonstrated interest matters (as long as one of the essay choices is Why X University, demonstrated interest matters). Lucky and wealthy kids have adept guides through this system. Others do not. Literally private schools have zero obligations to increase enrollment or do anything else to ameloriate things, but they are also huge collectors of government money and have been active lobbiers against public universities where they saw a threat…so I feel like they get off easy on this front.

112

Hebrew University, UIUC, and postdoc at UConn. I have taught a a few public universities as well. My kid is attending a good pribvate LAC.

It is insanely competitive, but mostly because of the insane attitude that no other college except the most popular private colleges are worth attending, so there is a run on them. I am absolutely certain that 99% of all kids who applied to these popular private

In the past, most people just applied to their local college or perhaps to their state flagship or local private colleges. Ironically, back then, attending a place like Harvard or Yale made a lot more of a difference in job prospects, at least the ones in the financial centers of the NE or the government centers in the Atlantic seaboard.

I think that states and the federal government should invest more money in public universities and schools, so that these can provide an education that will challenge any high school graduate, and that these kids will not be limited in their selection of public university because of their income.

I also wish that there was more investment in developing more public Liberal Arts Colleges. It is a great model for many kids, but because there is not enough financial support of education in this country, and even less support of of actual education, rather than training workers, this model is rarely found in public schools.

So you mean that they interview all of the kids who score high, and then preferentially admit those from the wealthiest families? They play the exact same game as the Ivies, and are, in fact, even worse.

Of course legacy makes a difference, that is why 42% are from private schools, and the schools with the highest admission rates somehow happen to be those where the kids of Oxbridge graduates study.

Again, from which schools actually prepare students for the A levels (hint: not the schools in the poorer areas or which are attended by poorer kids), to who is admitted after the interviews (hint: kids who attended wealthier or private high schools are accepted at a much higher rate).

The difference between the Ivies and Oxbridge is that the Ivies do not have a centuries-old system of inherited privilege which is upheld by the entire country, so they have to make their own rules to achieve what the UK as a country helps Oxbridge achieve.

2 Likes
113

I think it is important to consider that HYP and Case Western have very different admission systems. For example, Case Western is need aware and considers level of applicants interest. They have a history of waitlisting a large portion of applicants who require need and/or do not show high level of interest. For example, in 2020-21, Case Western waitlisted 9,721 applicants and accepted 1,076 of those from the waitlist. Approximately 1,130 non-ED applicants enrolled, so I’d expect that the 1,076 kids accepted from the waitlist made up a the vast majority of the non-ED enrolled class. I don’t think we are in the place to say whether Case Western’s admission system is right or wrong. But it is clearly very different from HYP and makes more use of the waitlist, so it is not surprising that Case Western might waitlist a kid who was accepted to HYP, particularly if that kid applied RD.

3 Likes
114

I know you went to a great school and you know people in the biz, but your posts show a lack of understanding. This person would have done similarly over the last 15 years, whether you think everyone agrees that this was a weird year.

5 Likes
115

OP, you can only go to one school and you have one. Make it a great experience.

5 Likes
116

What if Miami isn’t within budget?

Thats the HUGE problem for kids classified as international (even if they attend public schools in the US): they may be denied at universities that would meet their need if they were admitted because that need is too high for the university’s budget ; and they may get admitted to universities that don’t meet need and therefore which they cannot attend because they cannot afford them.

Even community college is off limits because 1) have you looked at the cost of CC OOS? 2) international transfers don’t qualify for scholarships so they’d be unable to transfer (not to mentio 3) there may not be a commutable CC that offers relevant classes).

4 Likes
117

Yes, I realize that the admissions process is not just, thank you for drilling that in again. Really helps.

I wanted to go to these colleges because they had fulfilled a criteria that I had that took in factors like student opportunity and money. Prestige is a non factor here. I never said I am mad about not getting into Harvard or Princeton. Frankly, even if I got in, I know there will be 10-20 other kids who were just as “deserving” as me that didn’t get in. I am not angry about any specific rejection at all. I am just confused as to why all 15 of them happened. Thanks for your comment.

118

I agree with this point of view!

For me, it was not about the prestige mindset, not at least consciously. I had a criteria to fill that the colleges on my list (I thought) filled out and I thought I would be a good “fit” at those colleges. As I’ve stated in multiple replies, I’m happy with the college I got accepted into, I really am. The rejections are what are eating at me right now. Nothing else.

119

I think this is just as explicable as any event with an element of chance. Probably you were overshooting at the high end of your range and had an insignificant chance of getting accepted. But suppose for the sake of argument that you were really borderline at 5 of those schools and the decision was subject to independent sources of hazard (the admissions officer was having a bad day, or there was some slight ambiguity in your admissions essay that is going to get an idiosyncratic reaction). Further suppose that at the borderline you still had a 50/50 shot at each with independent odds.

So in that simplistic model, you have a 1/32 chance of being rejected from all of them, which sounds low. On the other hand, how many people with similar strengths submit to more than 5 borderline schools? Probably a lot more than 32. There will be other students in the same situation. They are more likely to post about it here than those who had the outcome they expected.

In short, you can’t rule out hazard. It’s nothing to take very personally, though if there is any takeaway it’s that you had too many reaches or borderline reaches and should have applied to several schools where you were fully confident of being admitted.

120

You seem like a great student and person, but it is pretty simple. The average accepted applicant at nearly all of those schools on your list is stronger than you. If you had applied to 20 like that, there would likely have been 5 more rejections. It won’t make you feel better, but do you get that now?

3 Likes
121

When my son was applying to schools, his CC told him that he should apply to about 15 schools. Although his stats were comparable to yours, she did not encourage so many reaches. Her rationale was this:

If you are looking at a school with a freshman class of 600, they want 300 boys. If they have 12 men’s athletic teams and on average, each one gets 4 recruits, those are 48 spots that aren’t available to you. If they take 12 legacy boys, we are down to 240 spots. If they want 10% Pell/QB, you are now trying to be one of 210 boys. It’s possible that athletes and legacy kids look like you in terms of geography, etc and you’re already out of the running. But if you are still in it, they are going to consider your ability to pay, where you are coming from, your academic interests, URM status or not, all to create a class that has a mix of students. Iow, even at less selective schools, you may not be what they need.

You have worked hard and done well but there are lots of kids like you. (Hard to imagine when you are a high flier at your own high school!) And pretty much everyone who applied to the schools you did had a similar profile. It is hard to stand out in that pool. So much so that at many, 95% of those amazing applicants also were rejected.

But here’s the thing - you didn’t become any less smart, hard-working, likely to succeed the moment you were accepted or rejected. If you had to do it again, maybe you would understand the odds better and adapt your list. But it’s too late for that. Think about what you have learned from this, and go off to college ready to do great things!

23 Likes
122

My point was to some other posters is that the expectation that admissions be just is a mistake. Private college are accepting students in order to fulfill their own needs and requirements, not to award prizes to deserving students.

No applicant is any more “deserving” of another for admissions to private college. The student with an UW GPA of 4.0 is no more “deserving” of that acceptance than you are.

The reason that you weren’t accepted?

Because your UW GPA was not in the range is which colleges with low acceptance rates were considering international applicants, unless they had some serious hook. Of your list, you were never in the running for any colleges but Miami Ohio, St Olaf’s, and RIT.

As for why St Olaf’s and RIT didn’t accept you,

This is why.

Private colleges like RIT and St Olaf’s are not doing all that well financially, and they prefer to spend their money on USA citizens and/or applicants with more accomplishments/better stats. If your parents could afford these, you may have been accepted to one or both.

As I wrote, colleges select students who they think will fulfill a specific need, or, better yet, a number of them. They most likely decided not to accept you because you did not seem to them to fulfill any of their needs.

Despite what the colleges may say, private college admissions people do not look at an application and ask “is this applicant good enough?”. They ask “what will this applicant do for us?”. They are not judging applicants on how objectively “good” they are, but on how much they will, ultimately, benefit the college.

That is why nobody “deserves” admissions, since students aren’t admitted based on how “deserving” they are. That is also why “just” has nothing to do with admissions to private colleges, since that implies that “undeserving” applicants are being accepted in place of “deserving” applicants.

You are hard working, your stats and accomplishments are far above average, and you are likely to do well in life. Unfortunately, there are 2,000,0000 graduating seniors who are college bound, and “elite” colleges only accept 100,000-150,000 a year, so competition is tough, and it is difficult to get a place at one of these colleges.

11 Likes
123

Great points on this thread. I have a question. do colleges get to see where else the applicant is accepted, wait listed or rejected? e.g. if a kid is accepted to say a state univ, do other public/private colleges get to see if the kid is accepted else where?